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My first ancient coin purchase to enjoy and question

I was just lucky enough to win the coin below at a recent Stack's auction, and as a first-timer, I'm blown away at the coin in-hand. I wanted it because the theme of the two wrestlers grappling on the obverse has personal meaning because I was a wrestler when young(er) image

The following description may sound dumbed down, as I'm just learning; so please forgive...

The coin is a denomination called a "Slater" from the part of the Greek Empire known as Pamphylia, which is now a part of modern Turkey, I believe. It is made of "Electrum" which I now know to be a gold/silver alloy and which became debased over the course of time (sound familiar?). So it is roughly 11 grams of gold and silver. It was minted Circa 380/75-330/25 B.C., and from the estate of Cornelius Vermeule, who is the fine writer who authored a wonderful book entitled "Numismatic Art in America". On top of the history and pedigree, it is a beautiful coin, in "Extremely Fine" condition after 2,300 years (I think it to be original), and the ultra high relief and rainbow toning of the electrum is mind-blowing. I now understand why Teddy Roosevelt wanted St. Gaudens to model our gold coins after the Greek coinage. Of course, in-hand the coin looks much better than the photo. So I'm just really excited about this coin, if not obvious. And at +/- $400, I could not believe the value.

But here are a question for the Ancient coin experts if any of you have the time and/or knowledge: Can you enlighten me to the meaning of:

1) On the reverse, the meaning of the "triskeles" in the right field, the meaning of the Π symbol between the slinger's legs, and also the meaning of the uncertain person or object within the circular incuse device. It's all very interesting to me.

2) The auction catalog tells me as follows: "Tekin series D. SNG BN 60-3 (all with different c/m in same position). SNG von Aulock" How can I find out what that all means? I bought a book before the sale, but that information was not in it. The information almost sounds like either a system of nomenclature for ancients, or artist designation of a modern copy, but I cannot find much information on-line.

Thank you in advance for any answers!

Duane

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Comments

  • coverscovers Posts: 624
    Not an "expert" but that looks like a silver stater to me, not electrum.

    Many of the Pamphylia coins have wrestlers (and a triskeles emblem) but your example has a more interesting reverse than most. Very nice coin!

    For info on the triskeles symbol, see Here

    A rare Two Sicilies stamp with same symbol:

    image
    Richard Frajola
    www.rfrajola.com


  • << <i>Not an "expert" but that looks like a silver stater to me, not electrum.

    Many of the Pamphylia coins have wrestlers (and a triskeles emblem) but your example has a more interesting reverse than most. Very nice coin!

    For info on the triskeles symbol, see Here

    A rare Two Sicilies stamp with same symbol:

    image >>



    Thank you very much!

    Yeah; I'm just going by faith from the Stack's catalog posting as: "A Selection of Ionion Electrum Coinage". Is there a chance that it's a really debased coin maybe?

    Thanks much for the link. That is incredibly fascinating stuff.
  • Very nice coin! A real classic. And not bad for a first step into the world of ancients...

    In regard to your second question, SNG means Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum, which is a series of series of catalogues (i.e., several catalogues in each series) of prominent collections. SNG BN means Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum Bibliotheque National and refers to the series of catalogues containing the collection of the Bibliotheque National in Paris. SNG von Aulock is a series of catalogues of the private German collection of Hans von Aulock. A reference to a particular coins would normally either first contain the volume and then the number of the coin in that volume, or just the number of the coin. The description of the coin in the auction catalogue should contain these numbers.

    c/m stands for countermark, which is (as I'm sure you know) a "punch" from a small die applied to a coin after it has been struck, e.g. to validate or revalue a coin.

    I am not familiar with "Tekin" but I assume this refers to the author of a catalogue.

    Pamphylia is a region. The coins is from the city of Aspendos in that region.

    I, too, think it's silver, not electrum.

    //Auto
    A grade is an inadequate report of an inaccurate judgement by a biased and variable judge of the extent to which a coin corresponds to an undefinable level of an unattainable state of preservation. - Never tell me that grading is science.


  • << <i>Very nice coin! A real classic. And not bad for a first step into the world of ancients...

    In regard to your second question, SNG means Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum, which is a series of series of catalogues (i.e., several catalogues in each series) of prominent collections. SNG BN means Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum Bibliotheque National and refers to the series of catalogues containing the collection of the Bibliotheque National in Paris. SNG von Aulock is a series of catalogues of the private German collection of Hans von Aulock. A reference to a particular coins would normally either first contain the volume and then the number of the coin in that volume, or just the number of the coin. The description of the coin in the auction catalogue should contain these numbers.

    c/m stands for countermark, which is (as I'm sure you know) a "punch" from a small die applied to a coin after it has been struck, e.g. to validate or revalue a coin.

    I am not familiar with "Tekin" but I assume this refers to the author of a catalogue.

    Pamphylia is a region. The coins is from the city of Aspendos in that region.

    I, too, think it's silver, not electrum.

    //Auto >>




    Thank you as well. It's very humbling to understand how much I do not know. But that means plenty of room to learn, right?

    All this comes from the wrestling room - who would have known!

    BTW: Both of you fellas think the coin to be silver, when I have learned the 'electrum' IS silver and gold. So are you thinking that the coin is JUST silver?? And if you are, is that based on just the photo, or other knowledge/experience that you have with these coins? truly of interest, as I'm wondering why Stacks would present the coin as being electrum. This is just a question of pure curiosity. With the "Vermeule" pedigree, I just assumed that diligence/research was done prior to the post. If you read his works, he is a detail-oriented writer.

    As the coin is raw, I suppose that I could have it tested for metal content. It does look much much different in-hand.


  • coverscovers Posts: 624
    I said silver by sight (and broad experience with early electrum coinage in general). So, I went backed and looked at the description which is below. "AR" = Argentum = silver

    image
    Richard Frajola
    www.rfrajola.com
  • CIVITASCIVITAS Posts: 2,256 ✭✭✭
    These coins are silver. Electrum is always yellowish to some degree. The heading in the catalog was just referring to the Ionian coins in the left column, (each designated with "IONIA" at the beginning of their catalog entry and "EL" before the denomination) not all the coins on the page. This coin is from Pamphylia, not Ionia.

    Tekin refers to "Aspendian 'Wrestlers' : An Iconographic Approach" by O. Tekin. It appeared in Mecanismes et innovations monetaires dans l'Anatolie Achemenide. Varia Anatolica XII. Paris. 2000. edited by O. Casabonne.

    Edited to add: Your coin is a very attractive example, regardless of its composition. Nice pickup.


    image
    image
    https://www.civitasgalleries.com

    New coins listed monthly!

    Josh Moran

    CIVITAS Galleries, Ltd.
  • Thank you all. Great education.

    Sincerely,
    Duane
  • Kurt4Kurt4 Posts: 492 ✭✭
    That's one heck of a coin.image
  • WWWWWW Posts: 2,609 ✭✭✭
    Congratulations on your first ancient. While I know precious little about ancients, it's readily apparent that this is a great looking coin. image
  • JZraritiesJZrarities Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭
    Don't forget to look at Wildwinds - Pamphylia and the Digital Historia Numorum


  • << <i>Don't forget to look at Wildwinds - Pamphylia and the Digital Historia Numorum >>



    Wow-thank you. I won't.
    DB
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