How many of you have run into dishonest collectors in your dealings?
291fifth
Posts: 24,710 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'm talking about flat out collector crooks.
They are out there. I recall hearing about a collector who, in the pre-slab era, would offer 1916-D dimes to dealers in Capital Plastics 2x2 lucite holders. Upon opening the holder the dealer would find a 1916-P dime on top and a common date "D" dime on the bottom. The two dimes were glued together so the proper obverse/reverse alignment wouldn't change if the coin moved in the holder.
They are out there. I recall hearing about a collector who, in the pre-slab era, would offer 1916-D dimes to dealers in Capital Plastics 2x2 lucite holders. Upon opening the holder the dealer would find a 1916-P dime on top and a common date "D" dime on the bottom. The two dimes were glued together so the proper obverse/reverse alignment wouldn't change if the coin moved in the holder.
All glory is fleeting.
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In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>I think you meant dealers. >>
This thread is about collectors and collectors only.
Sold a bill of goods that was just nothing by hype. Thought they had something valuable
only to find out they got taken. Usually, but not always, they bought off of TV or out of
magazines. Many got hooked by an unscrupulous telemarketer and the crap really ran deep
and there are no boots high enough for those kind!
bob
Camelot
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
dealers=tend to defraud by misrepresentation and hype.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I think you meant dealers. >>
Interesting paradigm portrayed by this post. --Jerry
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I'm talking about flat out collector crooks.
They are out there. I recall hearing about a collector who, in the pre-slab era, would offer 1916-D dimes to dealers in Capital Plastics 2x2 lucite holders. Upon opening the holder the dealer would find a 1916-P dime on top and a common date "D" dime on the bottom. The two dimes were glued together so the proper obverse/reverse alignment wouldn't change if the coin moved in the holder. >>
Someone tried to do that to me during my first months in the business. I probably would have been fooled if the wear patterns had been more accurate.
<< <i>I've seen B&M dealers buy coins from the public at a small fraction of their wholesale value. I've seen dealers sell cleaned problem coins to new collectors at full retail. I've also seen collectors pull the same/similar stunts. No one group has a monopoly on dishonesty. >>
Puro's Coins and Jewelry
Rutland, VT
(802)773-3883
Link to my website www.vtcoins.com
Link to my eBay auctions
Buy, sell and trade all coins, US paper money, jewelry, diamonds and anything made of gold, silver or platinum.
<< <i>Should professional coin dealers be held to a higher standard than coin collectors?
No, we are all accountable and should all be held the same moral and ethical standards.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
1. This actually was a 1916D dime scam but a little more sophisticated. The guy had taken the effort of planing off the back of a 1916 dime and the front of a "D" mint dime and supergluing together. It was in one of those Capital Plastics 2x2's. My Dad handed it to me to corraberate the grade and asked the fellow if we could take it out of the holder to verify the weight. He indicated that was not possible. So we said "no Thanks" and handed it back. Later I found the dealer who DID buy it. When he opened it later, he found out what it was.
2. My Dad had a very nice uncirculated CC dollar in a 3x3 hard plastic snap holder. CLEARLY an unc coin. A couple bought it, the woman commenting on how "pretty" it was. They left and came back in 20 minutes or so demanding thier money back. They'd shown it to her Dad out in the parking lot and he said it was not uncirculated. My Dad said fine give me the coin and I'll give you your money back. The coin they handed back was NOT the one they bought. After a heated exchange, they got thier cash back.
Other than that...
<< <i>2. My Dad had a very nice uncirculated CC dollar in a 3x3 hard plastic snap holder. CLEARLY an unc coin. A couple bought it, the woman commenting on how "pretty" it was. They left and came back in 20 minutes or so demanding thier money back. They'd shown it to her Dad out in the parking lot and he said it was not uncirculated. My Dad said fine give me the coin and I'll give you your money back. The coin they handed back was NOT the one they bought. After a heated exchange, they got thier cash back. >>
Rather than rewarding those con artists, your dad should have called the cops. I bet they would have quickly fled since they probably had long rap sheets for similar scams.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Another time at a show, an very elderly couple claimed Pat had quoted them a price on a coin the day before that was off by $50 from what he actually said. They weren't confused, they knew exactly what they were doing.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
The same dealer, who was a very generous buyer, was cheated by a collector with a large accumulation. The dealer was supposed to buy the coins for $92k on a certain date, and his buy price was the highest you could reasonably expect. When the collector walked into my friend's shop with the coins on the appointed transaction date, 8 dealers walked in behind him. I was actually there when this happened, but left. My friend should have thrown the dealers out of his shop, but he did not, and they proceeded to bid up the price on the collection to $100k, though my friend ended up with it. The retail value was $100k, so my friend was stuck with something he could only sell off at Trends prices if he wanted to make a buck. To make matters worse, there was a 1796 half in the collection that turned out to be expertly repaired, and he lost $6k on it alone. When he confronted the collector about the repaired half, the guy basically told him to kiss his @$$, a deal is a deal. After a lot of hard work and frustration, he broke even on the coins. The nice guy doesn't always come out on top, I'm afraid.
I was looking over a decent-sized collection of raw classic commems, almost all of which had signs of harsh and obvious cleanings. I used his Hawaiian half as an example, as it showed clear and obvious hairlines on both sides. Of course, the owner touted each and every coin, including the Hawaiian, as choice, original gems, and disagreed that any of them had ever been cleaned.
I gave the seller the price that I was willing to pay for the coins, and told him that I'd send them in to be graded, and share the results with him. I said that if any came back uncleaned, that I'd send him another check for those coins.
Here is how NGC/NCS slabbed the Hawaii:
Along with the collection, the seller threw in a box of miscellaneous holders, flips and supplies - new and used. I later found this flip at the bottom of the box:
He knew good and well that they'd been cleaned.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>Should professional coin dealers be held to a higher standard than coin collectors?
No, we are all accountable and should all be held the same moral and ethical standards. >>
Absolutely
Terry
Needless to say, I talked with the seller, explained what was really happening, and I received the medals.
The underbidder who tried to pull this scam actually had the nerve to contact me on other matters a year or two later. Dirtbag.
I have met some collectors (including some on this forum) who have shaved the truth about prices. Things like, "I paid X", when I know for a fact the price paid was Y.
U.S. Type Set
I know a collector or two with such skills ...........
Lots of them. Think of coins as a used car.
K
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
<< <i>How many of you have run into dishonest collectors in your dealings? >>
I've run into dishonest dealers in my collecting.
<< <i>I've run into dishonest dealers in my collecting. >>
I've felt the need to slip on high hip boots as the $#!+ was getting deep far more often when communicating with dealers then collectors.
As far as my own experience - when I was just getting into collecting Morgan dollars I was at long beach and bought some raw unc cc dollars. When I sent them into pcgs a couple came back tooled. ( 1881 cc and 1882 cc). My first question was , what the he'll is tooling! I guess the word for this is tuition?!?!
Second , even before this I was even wetter behind the ears, and picked up a nice 1878 cc for a couple of hundred bucks from a coin store I. Manhattan while on vacation. Pcgs said it was cleaned. Tuition.
As far as collectors go, I once offered an early bust dollar to a dealer for "4" and the dealer said not for me. Then a collector asked to take a look and said, "I will give you four hundred for it." what a jerk!
Also I have seen plenty of dealers try and rip off dealers while I was making a buy at a show or in the shop. The usual, pocketing coins, miscounting what they are buying, the money they are paying with.
So I guess, this river runs both ways.