Another eBay seller victim

CaptHenway · May 3, 2010 1:28AM

The new Coin World Online has a letter to the editor from a guy who sold a run of silver statehood quarter proof sets that he had bought from the mint. The bidder paid via paypal, but immadiately after he got the stuff filed a complaint that the silver had been switched for clad. Of course paypal immediately took the buyer's side and took the money back. The seller eventually got back sets with swiched coins, and paypal says he has to prove he did not ship them that way.
Yeah, right!

segoja · May 3, 2010 1:31AM

You gotta love the crooks.

coolest · May 3, 2010 1:45AM

The way the system currently works any buyer could swap a real coin with a fake coin and then claim that the seller sent a fake coin.

Seller beware!

telephoto1 · May 3, 2010 1:54AM

<< <i>The way the system currently works any buyer could swap a real coin with a fake coin and then claim that the seller sent a fake coin.

Seller beware! >>

The way the system works, the buyer can ship back a ROCK and as long as it's returned via a trackable method, the seller still gets hosed. Welcome to the new improved eBay.

TwoSides2aCoin · May 3, 2010 1:57AM

The way the sytem works is against the merchant, which makes eBay an accomplice and fellow coinspirator in fraud.

kryptonitecomics · May 3, 2010 2:03AM

What about photographic evidence of the coins in the auction etc or the packaging? I would think you could prove the coins sent back were not the same coins as were in the auction...but that still doesn't prove the coins weren't switched after the auction pictures were taken

telephoto1 · May 3, 2010 2:15AM

The only thing that would prevent or at least minimize the coin switching issue would be for the original proof set cases to have some kind of unique tamper-evident seals on them as issued from the US Mint, perhaps with a Treasury logo or something similar. That still won't prevent outright theft via fraud, though.

waterzooey · May 3, 2010 2:26AM

paypal is going to end up in a huge lawsuit with the monopolistic practices they use....

19Lyds · May 3, 2010 2:32AM

<< <i>What about photographic evidence of the coins in the auction etc or the packaging? I would think you could prove the coins sent back were not the same coins as were in the auction...but that still doesn't prove the coins weren't switched after the auction pictures were taken

>>

I think this is doable since hi-res photo's of the silver coins taken before the auction ran, and then kept for a year or so could be used to compare one against the other. But at what point does it change from he said/he said?

I guess the only sure fire coverage in a case like this is to digitally record the packaging and mailing. But that could be a very long tape since you'd have to tape at least one of the coins from a side view to show that it was silver.

How about a notarized certificate of compliance signed immediately after packaging?

I really hate hearing stories like this since national publication could open up a flood of deceptive buyers and sellers. It makes me very leary about selling ANY Silver Proof Sets!

NewParadigm · May 3, 2010 2:38AM

Not only is that fraud but if he used the postal system, it is mail fraud.

Also, if between state lines, it becomes a federal offense.

ziggy29 · May 3, 2010 3:18AM

All of the eBay rules are increasingly making it a hostile environment to sellers. I've completely stopped selling there.

19Lyds · May 3, 2010 3:59AM

I just read the article and it seems that the seller received a "set of poorly repackaged clad coins in 'silver packaging', which are not sealed as well as legitimate Silver Proof Sets are, in the red 1999 set packaging,"

I was not aware that any of the 1999 Proof sets were actually "sealed".

I'm certainly not disputing the seller but that little phrase there can create a whole new shockwave of proofs sets being "sealed".

The absolute only way to cover your butt in a scenario like this is to personally "seal" each silver proof set with your own personalized security seal which could be obtained here.

Returned sets would have to have that seal, intact, and in place. Otherwise, that would be proof that what was retunred was not what was sent.

19Lyds · May 3, 2010 4:00AM

<< <i>You gotta love the crooks. >>

And no we don't gotta love em but we do need to be aware that they are out there AND they should be prosecuted if we can prove a case.

sinin1 · May 3, 2010 6:45AM

some sellers have been videotaping the packaging process--

showing what is going in box/envelope and taping shut and affixing label

if PAYPAL shipping was used and only 1 label was printed, it would be good evidence

but even then, would eBay/PAYPAL do anything to the buyer if they were shown that the buyer is a crook?

telephoto1 · May 4, 2010 3:06AM

<< <i>some sellers have been videotaping the packaging process--

showing what is going in box/envelope and taping shut and affixing label

if PAYPAL shipping was used and only 1 label was printed, it would be good evidence

but even then, would eBay/PAYPAL do anything to the buyer if they were shown that the buyer is a crook? >>

The problem is... they can still claim you edited what you videotaped-and what was shown there wasn't what you actually sent.
There are loopholes in the system that are big enough to drive a tank through, and all of them fall in favor of the buyer.
And people still wonder why both the number and quality of listings have decreased.

derryb · May 4, 2010 3:48AM

Did they out the buyer? Until ebay realizes they have a crook as a member the only protection sellers have is to share user names of suspect buyers as we do here on the forum. Someone should start a website that lists bad experiences with buyers alphabetically by buyer name.

jmski52 · May 4, 2010 3:53AM

I wonder if ebay or paypal ever bothers to track the claim history of those who make such claims. I'm betting that they don't bother.

I'm still ebay-free since Oct '08 but I see the day coming when I'll need to dump some of my less valuable stuff that would be hard to market otherwise. Ugh.

Another eBay seller victim

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