Just My Take on the Doilies
DRUNNER
Posts: 3,901 ✭✭✭✭✭
Just my perspective. I respect other's views and realize I am but one isolated voice on the subject.
I've spent a lot of time researching every thread on the PCGS Doily holder since I have started to collect them in earnest. My reasoning? I find history of all types to be fascinating (although I teach English), and the story of the Doily is a facet of the PCGS history that will never be repeated. I find that as I work towards Classic Large Cents, Type, and eye appealing coins, I can once in a very rare while find a Doily and if the price is within reason, I buy. Yes, it is buying plastic, but it is also buying history. I don't have any problem with it at all. I value my collections on their eye appeal merit and routinely stop the local shows dead in their tracks if I bring a main set in for view, so I don't worry that I collect a little "plastic on the side". I can assemble a slice of "how PCGS graded" during that timespan . . . and have a very rare group of holders, if not coins, that represent a period in grading history that can be assessed, quantified, and evaluated long into the future. That is fun, and that is what collecting is about. My other 'coins' can stand on their own, but this is a PCGS Forum and I also collect their holders. That is what this thread is about.
Several (OK, actually just one) posters here proclaim that "plastic is the root of all evil". I feel Doilies represent an evolution of the past that many feel is important. Yes, we are counseled to look at the coin, and not the plastic, but the Doily transcends that. The Doily is a piece of history that is a very narrow slice of the TPG spectrum, basically for a month (or less) of grading in a specific period of time. By looking at the coins within these holders, we get an eye into the past.
One poster in the past mentioned that dealers don't charge a premium for the Doily. I beg to differ (within my perspective). In SLC, Las Vegas, Long Beach, and Ogden, UT, I have found numerous dealers that not only want a premium for the holder, but in some cases want a HUGE premium for the holder. In reality, my experience does not bear this out. If you want a simple proof Franklin that is worth $12, be ready to pony up $65-$80 for a Doily. I know . . . I have done it.
I do find the majority of them to be properly graded. Keets and a few others have commented on the grading. In my view, of the 20 or so I own, perhaps a third are undergraded, but then again, that is my eye looking at them, and certainly not the eye of PCGS. Actually, PCGS HAS graded them, and my perspective doesn't matter.
Lee . . . congrats on finding your Ike! I have yet to find anyone who has seen one.
Wei . . . you commented a while ago that these were nothing special and you see them all the time. I highly respect your opinion, but I also know that I scour bourse floors from Long Beach to the ANAs and gobble up every Doily I can find within reason, yet at the 2009 LA ANA there were exactly two available. I bought them both. Perhaps 2 coins out of 20-30,000? I would be delighted if you could refer me to some of these in any situation. For some reason I am not circulating in the proper numismatic areas, as those I know find them to be unobtainable. But I am not a prefessional in the area.
Many others may look at the Doily as an upgrade possibility. Several of mine are, but I preserve them due to their history. I believe they are not as rare as the NGC Black, but they are certainly a holder with a historical premium. Why? The NGC Black is more obvious . . . the Doily doesn't appear on the surface to be much different to the average collector, and consequently they trade and are available. I don't mean to compare their rarity, as there is no comparison.
Perhaps more later. I find this a great diversion of numismatics, and one I have a lot of fun with. I know several of us out there are aggressively looking for the Doilies, and more may be in the future. I'll keep you posted on any buying or selling I notice in order to advance the knowledge base.
Have fun . . . and let's not worry about the Jazz, they'll be done in 5 games.
Drunner
I've spent a lot of time researching every thread on the PCGS Doily holder since I have started to collect them in earnest. My reasoning? I find history of all types to be fascinating (although I teach English), and the story of the Doily is a facet of the PCGS history that will never be repeated. I find that as I work towards Classic Large Cents, Type, and eye appealing coins, I can once in a very rare while find a Doily and if the price is within reason, I buy. Yes, it is buying plastic, but it is also buying history. I don't have any problem with it at all. I value my collections on their eye appeal merit and routinely stop the local shows dead in their tracks if I bring a main set in for view, so I don't worry that I collect a little "plastic on the side". I can assemble a slice of "how PCGS graded" during that timespan . . . and have a very rare group of holders, if not coins, that represent a period in grading history that can be assessed, quantified, and evaluated long into the future. That is fun, and that is what collecting is about. My other 'coins' can stand on their own, but this is a PCGS Forum and I also collect their holders. That is what this thread is about.
Several (OK, actually just one) posters here proclaim that "plastic is the root of all evil". I feel Doilies represent an evolution of the past that many feel is important. Yes, we are counseled to look at the coin, and not the plastic, but the Doily transcends that. The Doily is a piece of history that is a very narrow slice of the TPG spectrum, basically for a month (or less) of grading in a specific period of time. By looking at the coins within these holders, we get an eye into the past.
One poster in the past mentioned that dealers don't charge a premium for the Doily. I beg to differ (within my perspective). In SLC, Las Vegas, Long Beach, and Ogden, UT, I have found numerous dealers that not only want a premium for the holder, but in some cases want a HUGE premium for the holder. In reality, my experience does not bear this out. If you want a simple proof Franklin that is worth $12, be ready to pony up $65-$80 for a Doily. I know . . . I have done it.
I do find the majority of them to be properly graded. Keets and a few others have commented on the grading. In my view, of the 20 or so I own, perhaps a third are undergraded, but then again, that is my eye looking at them, and certainly not the eye of PCGS. Actually, PCGS HAS graded them, and my perspective doesn't matter.
Lee . . . congrats on finding your Ike! I have yet to find anyone who has seen one.
Wei . . . you commented a while ago that these were nothing special and you see them all the time. I highly respect your opinion, but I also know that I scour bourse floors from Long Beach to the ANAs and gobble up every Doily I can find within reason, yet at the 2009 LA ANA there were exactly two available. I bought them both. Perhaps 2 coins out of 20-30,000? I would be delighted if you could refer me to some of these in any situation. For some reason I am not circulating in the proper numismatic areas, as those I know find them to be unobtainable. But I am not a prefessional in the area.
Many others may look at the Doily as an upgrade possibility. Several of mine are, but I preserve them due to their history. I believe they are not as rare as the NGC Black, but they are certainly a holder with a historical premium. Why? The NGC Black is more obvious . . . the Doily doesn't appear on the surface to be much different to the average collector, and consequently they trade and are available. I don't mean to compare their rarity, as there is no comparison.
Perhaps more later. I find this a great diversion of numismatics, and one I have a lot of fun with. I know several of us out there are aggressively looking for the Doilies, and more may be in the future. I'll keep you posted on any buying or selling I notice in order to advance the knowledge base.
Have fun . . . and let's not worry about the Jazz, they'll be done in 5 games.
Drunner
0
Comments
I agree with everything you posted, Drunner.
I only have two Doilies, but I think they are
cool, and I paid a bit of a premium for both.
Nothing wrong with that.
~
"America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
www.brunkauctions.com
Collect what it is that brings you pleasure.
For without it we are left with little round disks of metal instead of disks puzzlement; history and joy.
peacockcoins
<< <i>You collect plastic holders, and not coins, and if that is ok with you... that's fine! >>
I didn't read that into his post at all.
He doesn't collect "plastic holders" in place of coins.
He augments his coin collecting with his niche hunting for dolly PCGS slabs.
Your statement comes off as if you started a thread and claimed you collect, let's say, "Library of Coins" older coin albums and then I come along and wrote, "You collect paper folders and not coins, and if that is ok with you... that's fine!"
See the unfairness of this line of thinking?
peacockcoins
"You collect plastic holders, and not coins, and if that is ok with you... that's fine!"
-----
So, if I collect old '50s toys, and I have a toy robot, but I see
another one with the original box. By paying more for that one,
does that make me a box collector??
If so, then there are a lot of guilty toy collectors out there.
~
"America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
<< <i>ok allow me to display my ignorance........whats a doily? >>
see this thread
snman
Thanks for your additions to the Doily Census, I believe you have the most posted by one person.
***IF you own a Doily, please post it to my Doily Census thread*** Here!
I currently own 4 doilies and a couple of these old David Hall examples just for fun.
Click on this link to see my ebay listings.
John
<< <i>"You collect plastic holders, and not coins, and if that is ok with you... that's fine!"
-----
So, if I collect old '50s toys, and I have a toy robot, but I see
another one with the original box. By paying more for that one,
does that make me a box collector??
If so, then there are a lot of guilty toy collectors out there.
~ >>
Not even the same thing. That toy came in that box (how it was sold) the coin equivalent is a mint or proof set in original mint packaging. The coin was submitted for a holder.
Not bashing here, just making it clear.
Everyone collects in their own way. What you're doing is no different than someone who collects only PCGS slabbed coins, or only NGC coins. Just a little more specific, that's all.
Doilie On, Dude!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
-----
By far the Regency slabs. I've only ever seen two or
three of them.
~
"America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
<< <i>
<< <i>"You collect plastic holders, and not coins, and if that is ok with you... that's fine!"
-----
So, if I collect old '50s toys, and I have a toy robot, but I see
another one with the original box. By paying more for that one,
does that make me a box collector??
If so, then there are a lot of guilty toy collectors out there.
~ >>
Not even the same thing. That toy came in that box (how it was sold) the coin equivalent is a mint or proof set in original mint packaging. The coin was submitted for a holder.
Not bashing here, just making it clear. >>
-----
Well, admittedly it wasn't a perfect analogy, but people are
allowed to collect different things, and if the two things they
collect have a crossover appeal, so much the better.
GSA dollars are another example. The Mint didn't put those
Morgans in the black holders back when the things were
minted, yet some people like to have them within those
holders. Do they collect plastic, well in a way, I guess they do.
Thing is, just like a toy in a box, you can collect both and they
blend together, which is pretty sweet.
~
"America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
I collect 1938-D Buffalo nickels in PCGS generation holders (MS-66). This is one of maybe two or three that I need. Sorry you cracked it, but if you find another, please pm me.
njcc