Cleaned Coin price guide
thatboyaintright
Posts: 408
Anyone know of a reference for prices on cleaned or problem coins ? I bought what I thought was a raw 1899 MS 62 PQ $ 20 liberty for $ 1850 from a very reputable dealer several months ago. As I am NOT an expert on gold coins, I was relying on his word and expertise that this coin had "completely original surfaces" and definately PQ for for an ms 62. I asked him flat out if this coin would grade by PCGS and he said without a doubt.... at least MS 62 (which is why I paid $200 more than the MS 62 PCGS price guide for this specimen. I finally got around to taking it to a show with several others and was advised by the gold experts at two top tier grading companies. One said ms60 cleaned, the other said ms 61 harshly cleaned. Needless to say I declined to submit it for slabbing.
I don't feel right taking back to the B&M dealer since its been over 4 months since I bought it. If I sell it, I've got to now disclose that its been cleaned but I have no idea what price to ask for it . At first glance, I swear it looks like an easy ms 63 and thats the consensus opinion of many knowledgable collectors who've seen it. Any ideas ? I know I'm going to be taking a loss, but just how much of a loss is a anyone's guess.
PS. My wife calls it "Stupid Tax" courtesy of Dave Ramsey.
Any ethical ideas, would be very much appreciated. Thanks..
I don't feel right taking back to the B&M dealer since its been over 4 months since I bought it. If I sell it, I've got to now disclose that its been cleaned but I have no idea what price to ask for it . At first glance, I swear it looks like an easy ms 63 and thats the consensus opinion of many knowledgable collectors who've seen it. Any ideas ? I know I'm going to be taking a loss, but just how much of a loss is a anyone's guess.
PS. My wife calls it "Stupid Tax" courtesy of Dave Ramsey.
Any ethical ideas, would be very much appreciated. Thanks..
0
Comments
Send it to PCGS, and then take the coin back in the PCGS "Genuine" holder. You now have a much better chance of convincing the dealer he misrepresented the coin, so he should refund what you paid.
Don't buy raw coins worth over $100 until you learn how to grade. You can learn how to grade free, by studying TPG encapsulated coins. Also, with gold, there is a lot of counterfeit stuff running around the world.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>I don't think the dealer will take back the coin for near what you paid for it. Your telling the dealer two other gold specialists said the coin was cleaned, means little to the selling dealer. Everyone has an opinion.
Send it to PCGS, and then take the coin back in the PCGS "Genuine" holder. You now have a much better chance of convincing the dealer he misrepresented the coin, so he should refund what you paid.
Don't buy raw coins worth over $100 until you learn how to grade. You can learn how to grade free, by studying TPG encapsulated coins. Also, with gold, there is a lot of counterfeit stuff running around the world. >>
I wasn't sure what the dealer would say, a year later. I showed him the coin in its genuine holder (questionable color) and the original receipt and asked him if we could do more business. Nothing pushy...just a shoulder shrug and a question. The code 91 was a surprise to a lot of dealers I showed it to and I know the dealer wasn't trying to pull a fast one.
He accepted the coin and gave me full price toward something else, which was more than I expected. I went home happy and with a nice WLH.
Lance.
<< <i>As I am NOT an expert on gold coins, I was relying on his word and expertise that this coin had "completely original surfaces" and definately PQ for for an ms 62. I asked him flat out if this coin would grade by PCGS and he said without a doubt.... at least MS 62 (which is why I paid $200 more than the MS 62 PCGS price guide for this specimen. q]
I am not trying to be harsh and I intend no offense so please dont take this the wrong way. When it comes to buying raw coins the best thing you can do is research and alot of comparing raw coins. No mater who the dealer is or how reputable they are there opinion means absouloutly nothing when it comes to grading, the only person whos opinion matters when it comes grading time is the graders. The very worst thing you can do is pay a premium for a raw coin and simply hope it grades what you and the seller excpect. The best thing to do is to just ask the dealer what they think the coin might grade and ask if it would be okay to purchase the coin at the agreed upon price with the option to return the coin if the coin does not grade what was excpected. Just about any reputable dealer will be just fine with this as long as there is some reasonable time line on the deal. Generally the assumption is that if you have the opportunity to purchase a raw coin for 1500 plus there is a reason its raw.
A few months ago I purchased roughly 25k in raw large cents, all graded by EAC and some even cracked out of pcgs holders. I sent them all in for grading and 4 of them came back genuine altered surfaces, the four that came back ranged in grades from ms62 to ms4 based on the EAC grades. Just goes to show you the only opinion that really counts is the tpg.
for a graded coin,
but raw,
was not a good idea, sorry.
Why don't you run all this past your reputable dealer,
and see what he has to say.
It may help you to know how reputable he is.
I've always said it is tough to know who is really an expert when one has no knowledge himself. Be carefull about who grant "expertum" to. In this hobby, there is allot of bluffing going on. At a coin show, every dealer is an "expert" !
I just spoke to a mutual friend who told me the dealer would almost certainly swap this coin out for one already TPG'd as a 62 if they have one in stock or perhaps swap it for a different coin of similar value. That will make me sleep a little easier tonight.
Without actually submitting it for a grade, you'll never really know for sure.
Whatever you decide to do, good luck!
I can swap the coin in question for 1) another 1899 $ 20 Liberty in an NGC MS 62 ( less eye appeal in my limited opinion)
2) a 1907 $20 liberty in an NGC MS 62 slab ( much prettier and a better match with my type set of 20th century coins)
3) a 1906 p $20 liberty in a PCGS MS 62 slab (a rarer date, but with a very distracting mark for an extra $300)
4) an 1895 $20 liberty in an NGC MS 62 ( looks more like a ms 61 but what do I know)
Not sure which choice I'll make but its nice to know that my local B&M stands by their coins and has real intergrity ! Its true I will have ended up paying a very high retail price for the coin I get but I won't begrudge anyone making a profit and it was well worth the lessons learned.
<< <i>Thanks for all the great advice, I've spoken to the dealer and now have more choices than I can handle. They have offered me any of the following options.
I can swap the coin in question for 1) another 1899 $ 20 Liberty in an NGC MS 62 ( less eye appeal in my limited opinion)
2) a 1907 $20 liberty in an NGC MS 62 slab ( much prettier and a better match with my type set of 20th century coins)
3) a 1906 p $20 liberty in a PCGS MS 62 slab (a rarer date, but with a very distracting mark for an extra $300)
4) an 1895 $20 liberty in an NGC MS 62 ( looks more like a ms 61 but what do I know)
Not sure which choice I'll make but its nice to know that my local B&M stands by their coins and has real intergrity ! Its true I will have ended up paying a very high retail price for the coin I get but I won't begrudge anyone making a profit and it was well worth the lessons learned. >>
I vote for #2. It fits your collecting goals and is in your judgment is a pretty coin. Sounds like you end up paying $200 over PCGS price guide for that coin, but it could have been a much more expensive lesson.
Grading gold is a specialty. Collectors that specialize in other series, may or may not have any experience in gold.