I wonder?

SwK · April 1, 2010 5:51AM

This forum is great compared to many, it is fun, civilized [except when the odd guy argues with his wife then beats me] informative and people have a load of experience and information.

I wonder what time will do to the numbers of collectors will they keep increasing?

Since June 2009 I have had 19 new collectors approach me and today 14 are collecting still collecting coins.

There are those others that have acquired new and old standard catalogues; many emails request photos to be up-loaded, in-fact the past months have been vibrant and interesting.

How do our honourable members of this forum consider the future for numismatics and our hobby as a whole?

SwK

Hussulo · April 1, 2010 5:56AM

How do our honourable members of this forum consider the future for numismatics and our hobby as a whole?

Onwards and upwards.

I believe the internet has opened a lot of doors for the hobby and the recent fascination with genealogy and subsequently history has also helped.

Zohar · April 1, 2010 6:04AM

Great topic Jeff.

I am 39 years old and find this to be a relatively lonely experience. I do not know of anyone from my family or group of friends/work colleagues who collect.

I do hope this changes as the information sharing, collector community and pleasure from collecting itself is something which I enjoy very much in a virtual platform we are on yet could be even nicer in person.

laurentyvan · April 1, 2010 10:30AM

a relatively lonely experience

Oh too true, which is why this forum and others are so important on a number of levels.

Cameraderie, knowledge, history... The internet is very empowering, you're right.

ormandh · April 1, 2010 10:47AM

I do not find this experience lonely, whatsoever! I find that it ALWAYS makes for great conversation with persons which I meet periodically. I also am getting my six year old involved. It is funny how the older collectors really appreciate this fact. But more importantly, my son really feels comfortable around the attention he gets from older collectors. My son may be in a league of his own when he gets older, but I have realized, early on, that he really loves to learn about the history and the camaraderie of collecting. my son is typing this for me. enough said!

JimK · April 1, 2010 11:10AM

I tend to agree with the camraderie thing...I have friends at work although they aren't collectors they really enjoy seeing my coins and sharing my experiences. Even some of my family has expressed more than a passing interest. Like most of us here, I really do enjoy this forum and all that is shared- hardly ever a dull day- and as far as World collecting goes I still believe this particular forum is the best!
What does the future hold? No telling but it's in the hands of folks like us that willl hopefully keep things interesting for future generations...
(my 2 pfennigs worth anyway)

Jim

BillyKingsley · April 1, 2010 3:28PM

I think the hobby is actually going to expand in the future!

As more people worldwide gain access to the internet, and as more countries grow more affluent, the people there are bound to have an interest in their country's history. I have long said that the best, easiest way to learn about a country is from their coinage and currency.

The internet is a wonderfull tool that can bring untold wealth of knowledge to people around the world.

Think of this way: We've got members of this forum from all over the US, and I am aware of members in England, Greece, Canada, and I am sure there are others, as I don't know many people well. On a different coin forum I am on there are members from Russia, Iceland, Argentina, India, and others. We would not have been able to contact and exchange ideas and perhaps even coins with these people if not for the internet!

I agree with Zohar, this is a somewhat lonely hobby for me. If I did not join this forum, I would never have known about the ANA, the Red Book for US coins, any coin shows, I would not have known about any sources of coins for my collection as I know now (It would have been ALL stuff from circulation!) and I would not have found out that it's possible to collect ancients, as I assumed they were so old they would be impossibly rare and expensive...I now own five, and paid less then $75 for all of them combined, and that includes the most I've ever spent on a single coin!

I have just found out about 2 local coin shops, and have already visited one. The selection is limited but can keep me going as a brand new collector for quite some time. I also have just found out about a local coin club which I may be visiting shortly as well.

7Jaguars · April 1, 2010 9:27PM

Well, I suppose there must be a dissenter and that would be me. I see the overall interest dying down in coins but that there will be a renewable core with the big bankrolls that will support the major rarities. I see practically NO interest from younger people, and that while there are some young numismatists and a few more minorities being represented that the demographics remind me a bit of GM's dilemma with Buick - there is an inverted pyramid of numbers (with youth represented at the bottom and aged at the top.

Taking a fact (IMO) such as internet access to information that is established as true really does not imply that there will be more interest in people that do not have an interest to start. There are apparently many fewer B&Ms in the small towns that used to support such and at the same time growth in the large auction houses such as Heritage; I think this analagous to the situation with businesses in this country: small businesses that have always been considered the core of our economy are on the wane and there are fewer larger megacorporations with huge bottom line, something NOT considered by most economists that I am aware of as being a healthy thing.

I pray that my own young son will follow my lead, but that is a only one child. Not to be a pessimist, but I think collecting in the next decade or two will decrease.

Zohar · April 1, 2010 10:53PM

I tend to agree with 7Jaguars. People today live in the "now" rather than the "past". Reality TV vs. The History channel.
This may change as reality in the US will not be pleasant which may force a change in habits, spending, interests and more importantly, values - at that time collecting may return, even with lower priced pieces.

One of the flaws I have witnessed is some dealers treatment of younger collectors. Personally, before I was able to buy the higher end pieces, I could not get information, attention or time. The few dealers that were patient, earned the business as I expanded. I believe dealers (online or offline) need to view this as a longer term investment.

laurentyvan · April 1, 2010 11:49PM

I have to be careful how I frame this...

40 years ago if you were a child with uncertain social skills (as many of us might have been),
you gravitated naturally to things like reading, writing, art, collecting stamps or coins, etc.

These interests can be construed as solitary (or lonely) activities. As we grew we developed the social skills that allow for normal and pleasant social discourse
but we did not outgrow the love of our personal pursuits.

In today's world however, it is difficult to underestimate the attraction to young people of the personal computer
in all its varied manifestations.

How do you compete with the Universe at your fingertips?

What does the hobby have to do today to compete?

Yesterday's gone... (as the song goes), and tomorrow may never come.

OK, just kidding, but to be serious, the question remains.

Good thread Jeff.

SwK · April 2, 2010 12:19AM

Dear all

The responses are sobering and interesting - what could we do to bring our hobby to the schools of our respective countries.

We are taught about money when we are very young and it remains with us on one way or another through our lives, even though today more and more in the form of plastic.

If fact money is a common denominator to everyone, the interest could be stimulated, just be organizing a “touch table” at a local school were we could let the children see several coins on a tray from Greek to say 19th Century – handle them, ask questions?

When all said and done coinage is our history, for a young person to handle a Sestertius of Hadrian, a stator of Alexander the Great what stories we will have to tell them.

Maybe we can assist to bring new young collectors to our great hobby?

SwK
www.petitioncrown.com

FilthyBroke · April 2, 2010 12:24AM

It is difficult to keep a positive attitude in this hobby, especially when starting out. I've collected for about three or four years, and have come across obstacles on many occasions. Poor attitudes toward other collectors, the dealer who is less than totally honest or just ignores you for whatever reason at a show, the learning curve and it's cost, the list goes on.... This is a lot to ask of people, and if not fully commited I could see where one would be tempted to move on to greener pastures. I'm certainly not bashing anyone but just relating some experiences I've had so far. I think it takes time to learn what to expect, and certainly it takes some research to protect yourself. There is good and bad in the hobby, it's what you take out of it that counts.

I guess I'm just saying that it takes a certain kind of person to stick with it, to learn from thier experiences and not just quit when it gets tough. I see a lot of people who want to make money at this, but I doubt that they will be around for very long, and the guys who lose the money will probably also not stick to it for long. But the core collectors, the ones who love it for the art and history, will always be here.

In answer to your question - My vote is for less collectors in the future, partly because of the difficulty that is encountered in starting out in this hobby. Today's youth seem to have very little interest in coins, as there is just so much out there to distract them right now. They also seem to have little interest in things outside of their circle, and certainly the patience levels and attention spans of many have changed. It will take a special person to jump in and not lose their enthusiasm.

lordmarcovan · April 2, 2010 5:37AM

As global commerce evolves into more and more sophisticated and secure electronic methods, eventually coins will probably become obsolete. Maybe in this century. If and when that happens, they'll be all the more curious and fascinating to future generations, which bodes well for the hobby.

(On the other hand, electronic media have not made the old-fashioned printed book obsolete, so perhaps coins are still with us for the long haul.)

(PS, after reading some of the other responses): then again, electronic media and the distractions and enticements of modern life might mean less interest in numismatics overall. I do think there will always be a quieter, more contemplative core of people who are interested in such things, though. Maybe there isn't much hope for the general public, but every generation has its scholars, historians, artists, and yes, numismatists.

ajaan · April 2, 2010 9:18AM

<< <i> the dealer who is less than totally honest or just ignores you for whatever reason at a show >>

I have been ignored by dealers at every major show I've been to, FUN and ANA. I would stand at a dealers table and look directly at them and would be totally ignored, eventhough that dealer wasn't busy with another customer. Even if he was cataloging or pricing items he should have asked to help me.

Why would a new collector wants to put up with that rudeness? I have noticed, on the whole with exceptions of course, coin dealers are the least customer savy group of people I have ever run across who were trying to sell you something. All that is needed is "May I help you?", but is too much trouble to so many dealers.

Zohar · April 2, 2010 9:43AM

Ajaan, one thing these dealers forget is that their buyer base needs to be nurtured and that aside having the coins on display they are selling knowhow and service. It's very shortsighted to focus on the large ticket/immediate buyer vs. nurturing the collector base.

SwK · April 3, 2010 2:02AM

It is sad many of your stories - I went to a coin fair in the UK two weeks ago and I had the same response from young dealers who do not know me.

I was with my son and we were ignored and after 40 mins left the room to have a Pizza Express. Most of the room he did not know me as I seldom
go to a coin fair. It is at least 10 years since the last and I will not be going again. We asked to see a couple of trays and they reluctantly gave them to
us.

I agree on your comments that dealers should search out new customers that will be the future collectors.

An older dealer said to me the joke in the room is the last dealer standing will get all the collections

SwK

RobP · April 3, 2010 2:30AM

<< <i>It is sad many of your stories - I went to a coin fair in the UK two weeks ago and I had the same response from young dealers who do not know me.

I was with my son and we were ignored and after 40 mins left the room to have a Pizza Express. Most of the room he did not know me as I seldom
go to a coin fair. It is at least 10 years since the last and I will not be going again. We asked to see a couple of trays and they reluctantly gave them to
us.

>>

I think it is a common problem, though how much is down to buyers and how much to sellers is a moot point. Many people do not want to be interrupted while others are begging you to speak. The problem is identifying those in each camp if they don't approach you.

I have a table at Wakefield at the end of each month. When you approach people asking what they are looking for, the typical answer is nothing thank you, just browsing. Customers will generally fall into 2 camps, those who are genuinely browsing and looking for a bargain such as bullion below melt or the other group which will have a list of items they require. It is still difficult to get these people to part with the details though as being typical Yorkshiremen, they guard their lists as much as their wallets, so I would not be surprised if some dealers gave up asking based on a typical response. The truth is that many people are wandering around absent mindedly rather than being on a mission and so the conversation doesn't get beyond the initial question.

It is always much easier to speak to people when you have made a prior acquaintance just as we both spoke at the fair and you also chatted to a few dealers. Sadly it is a sign of the times where vast swathes of humanity(?) give the somewhat neanderthal impression of "You talking/looking at me? Don't do that again". There is no excuse for a dealer not to try and sell customers his wares, but meaningful dialogue is a two way thing.

I also wonder how much of the insularity is down to the typical personalities of the coin collector. Many people who partake in this hobby are quite isolationist in character, rarely outgoing and in the words of my wife - oddballs (and that includes me). SwK - you may have a point!!

Kurt4 · April 3, 2010 6:20AM

I saw a nice thing at a recent show. A dealer was giving away the new U.S design 2010 cents to kids. There were a lot of people hanging around his table and it looked as if business was pretty good. I think people just appreciated the gesture. I bought a couple of new penny rolls off of him. This was a very small show at a small town fire hall. The "big boys" could learn a thing or two from dealers like this.

SwK · April 3, 2010 4:21PM

saw a nice thing at a recent show. A dealer was giving away the new U.S design 2010 cents to kids. There were a lot of people hanging around his table and it looked as if business was pretty good. I think people just appreciated the gesture. I bought a couple of new penny rolls off of him. This was a very small show at a small town fire hall. The "big boys" could learn a thing or two from dealers like this.

Kurt4 great idea

SwK

OchoReales · April 4, 2010 3:58AM

The big boys are big business men and I'm sure that potential YN's couldn't afford their offerings. I barely can!

SwK · April 5, 2010 3:29PM

In regular business you lose +/- 20% of your accounts yearly, u need new accounts to replace this wastage.

What is happening in many cases is the older more mature accounts are growing larger and hiding the yearly loss.

The strong companies understand this and are always developing the new and just developing client, small yes but very important to a growing business long term,

It is the short term thinking of dealers who ignore the young and new collectors.

Again Simon my Son the other week went round the exhibition, not one dealer tried to talk to him

amazing, true he is unkown, what an opportunity for the dealer
to make friends with my lad for the future, the future being now; he is 43 and enjoys coins.

Later Simon just left and as I said earlier we went for a Pizza, what great service we got.

Forgot Simon my lad met Rob P and chatted, this he enjoyed

R

SwK

I wonder?

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