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ANACS AU55 Territorial Clark & Gruber $2.50 QE - Should I Crack It?
epcjimi1
Posts: 3,489 ✭✭✭
Hi Guys,
This is my first post here and I am a 99.5% newb when it comes to coin collecting and have been reading your forum for a couple of weeks. You guys are on it! Conterfeits + ebay scams, luster, color, rarity, the list is endless and interesting reading.
In the past year I've been working with my father to dispose of a small coin collection passed down through the family.
Initially, my father went to a coin dealer who submitted a few coins to ANACS for grading.
I started looking into the world of CC (during the ANACS submission process) and noticed at auction that when PCGS graded a coin AU53 it sold for more $$$ than when ANACS graded the same type of coin as AU53. Further investigation of PCGS vs. ANACS grading revealed that PCGS was more 'discerning' than ANACS thus commanding more value at auction.
As a result, we submitted coins to PCGS which graded - an 1852 Liberty Head QE AU53, three Barber quarters - 1892-O MS 64 (two), 1898 MS 62 and a 1892 V nickel, AU58. Super!
The funny thing is the PCGS graded 1852 QE AU53 was cracked out by my dad because ANACS graded it AU50 cleaned! He figured, what the heck, let's see what happens - and that upgrading of the 1852 QE sort of flies in the face of my theory of PCGS being stricter than ANACS, etc., etc., etc.
I'd like to dispose of this ANACS AU55 1861 C & G QE - should I crack it and tempt fate by sending it to PCGS? Maybe it will upgrade? - or- maybe no change -or- maybe downgrade -or- maybe come back in a body bag? :Gulp! What do you guys think of ANACS grade? Fair?
What do you guys think? Here's some pics, anyone see anything significant or have any advice on what I should do? The pics aren't the best, but it's all I got...
I've got a confession to make after reading the forum about people buying coins who don't know what they are doing - That's me! hahaha Reading this forum recently prompted me to get out ten common date 1879 - 1889 Morgan dollars I bought at an estate sale five years ago in old stapled together holders with dates written on the holder surrounds. Had no idea what I was doing or looking at. Paid 12 - 15 bucks each for them. I'm going to send them to PCGS and see if I got anything. They look pretty good to me, they certainly aren't beat up, scratched, nicked or worn that I can tell, but what do I know? hahaha, I'll see what happens, maybe lightening will strike.
This is my first post here and I am a 99.5% newb when it comes to coin collecting and have been reading your forum for a couple of weeks. You guys are on it! Conterfeits + ebay scams, luster, color, rarity, the list is endless and interesting reading.
In the past year I've been working with my father to dispose of a small coin collection passed down through the family.
Initially, my father went to a coin dealer who submitted a few coins to ANACS for grading.
I started looking into the world of CC (during the ANACS submission process) and noticed at auction that when PCGS graded a coin AU53 it sold for more $$$ than when ANACS graded the same type of coin as AU53. Further investigation of PCGS vs. ANACS grading revealed that PCGS was more 'discerning' than ANACS thus commanding more value at auction.
As a result, we submitted coins to PCGS which graded - an 1852 Liberty Head QE AU53, three Barber quarters - 1892-O MS 64 (two), 1898 MS 62 and a 1892 V nickel, AU58. Super!
The funny thing is the PCGS graded 1852 QE AU53 was cracked out by my dad because ANACS graded it AU50 cleaned! He figured, what the heck, let's see what happens - and that upgrading of the 1852 QE sort of flies in the face of my theory of PCGS being stricter than ANACS, etc., etc., etc.
I'd like to dispose of this ANACS AU55 1861 C & G QE - should I crack it and tempt fate by sending it to PCGS? Maybe it will upgrade? - or- maybe no change -or- maybe downgrade -or- maybe come back in a body bag? :Gulp! What do you guys think of ANACS grade? Fair?
What do you guys think? Here's some pics, anyone see anything significant or have any advice on what I should do? The pics aren't the best, but it's all I got...
I've got a confession to make after reading the forum about people buying coins who don't know what they are doing - That's me! hahaha Reading this forum recently prompted me to get out ten common date 1879 - 1889 Morgan dollars I bought at an estate sale five years ago in old stapled together holders with dates written on the holder surrounds. Had no idea what I was doing or looking at. Paid 12 - 15 bucks each for them. I'm going to send them to PCGS and see if I got anything. They look pretty good to me, they certainly aren't beat up, scratched, nicked or worn that I can tell, but what do I know? hahaha, I'll see what happens, maybe lightening will strike.
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Comments
If you want to sell the Clark Gruber QE, I would recommend that you send it to PCGS for crossover and indicate "no minimum grade". It looks like a nice coin and should fetch a good price. I agree that it might sell for more in the PCGS holder. Do not crack it because once out of the holder, sometimes it is tough to get back in!
If you bought junk Morgans, chances are they are just junk and not worth submitting. If in doubt, take them to a PCGS-authorized dealer and get their opinion...or just post some images here.
Edit: As for the accuracy of the ANACS grade, these were poorly struck and are extremely difficult to grade, even by those who have experience and the coin in-hand.
Here's a little history on CGC -
Prior to the turn of the 19th Century, trappers and fur traders told of gold in the South Park area of Colorado. By the mid-1850s, news of gold discoveries in Colorado had reached the East and parties began arriving in October 1858. Soon after, large pockets of gold were discovered in the Pikes Peak area. Although not the only enterprise destined to alleviate the problems of trading Colorado gold dust by converting it into coin, Clark, Gruber & Co. became the most respected financial organization in Colorado's pioneer days. It acted both as a bank and as a mint. As the gold rush expanded, Clark, Gruber & Co. became increasingly heavy buyers of gold dust, as well as receiving considerable amounts of it in payment for commodities at their wholesale houses. They would ship out the dust to be coined in Philadelphia but soon realized that it would be much more profitable to purchase their own coining equipment and mint their own pieces. By the middle of August, the company was receiving approximately two thousand dollars in gold dust daily. During the week ending August 28, they melted and coined $18,000 in $10, $5, and $2.50. By October, the gold coins of Clark, Gruber & Co. had become the principal currency of the Pike's Peak country. During its operation they issued a total of $594,305 worth of gold coins. These pieces were widely accepted at par, and the firm's reputation was above reproach.
Well, I went my local PCGS dealer and submitted for crossover my 1861 ANACS AU55 Clark + Gruber QE.
I stipulated that if PCGS thought the coin graded less than AU50, then do nothing and return it to me.
Or in other words, if PCGS thinks it's AU50 or better, please re-slab it in a PCGS holder.
I got it back from PCGS last Friday. The C + G QE is still in the ANACS slab. Along with it was a clear plastic holder with a PCGS style label marked 'No Decision / Refund'.
I called PCGS customer service about it and the gal told me that it means the grader couldn't decide. Unfortunately, that really doesn't tell me very much.
The dealer said he called PCGS too, but didn't know anymore after talking to his guy at PCGS.
The good news is it didn't cost me $35 + tax, but I didn't learn anything either.
What gives?
How often does PCGS 'no decision' a crossover submission and why?
Thanks in advance for any help.
edit - I guess my question is 'Now what should I do?'
<< <i>It sounds like the grader did what you wanted him/ her to. They couldn't grade it AU50 or better so they returned the coin to you in the original slab. That would be better than coming back in a PCGS "Genuine" slab, I would think. >>
A coin returned as "Did Not Cross" (i.e. deemed by the graders not be a PCGS AU50 or better) is not the same as one sent back - like this one was - as "No Decision / Refund".
<< <i>It sounds like the grader did what you wanted him/ her to. They couldn't grade it AU50 or better so they returned the coin to you in the original slab. That would be better than coming back in a PCGS "Genuine" slab, I would think. >>
No they would have had a sticker on it saying mingrade 50 and it didnt meet it. Sounds like this cannot determine if it is genuine.
<< <i>
<< <i>It sounds like the grader did what you wanted him/ her to. They couldn't grade it AU50 or better so they returned the coin to you in the original slab. That would be better than coming back in a PCGS "Genuine" slab, I would think. >>
A coin returned as "Did Not Cross" (i.e. deemed by the graders not be a PCGS AU50 or better) is not the same as one sent back - like this one was - as "No Decision / Refund". >>
I agree 100%....Don't crack it!!!!!
<< <i> Do not crack it because once out of the holder, sometimes it is tough to get back in! >>
Just my opinion as I speak from experience on crackouts. Crossover is the way to go.
<< <i>Key here IMO is the 3rd edge - rim filing was common - if they can't guarantee the grade requested, it's a no decision/refund. >>
I dont know these coins, is that something they can see in the ANACs holder?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It sounds like the grader did what you wanted him/ her to. They couldn't grade it AU50 or better so they returned the coin to you in the original slab. That would be better than coming back in a PCGS "Genuine" slab, I would think. >>
A coin returned as "Did Not Cross" (i.e. deemed by the graders not be a PCGS AU50 or better) is not the same as one sent back - like this one was - as "No Decision / Refund". >>
I agree 100%....Don't crack it!!!!! >>
Yes, I agree about not cracking. It's in a slab now. And as mentioned by an earlier poster, cracking a slab and getting the coin into another slab can be a slippery slope to climb (so to speak).
Another thing I don't get is the refund. I think it plays into this somehow. I thought that if PCGS re-slabs the QE @ AU50 or better, it costs $35. If PCGS looks at it and determines 'Nope, not AU50 or better', it still costs $35.
Any examination by PCGS should cost $$$ no matter what, it seems to me. Even a 'No Decision'.
If I were you I'd leave it alone for a while and send it back in a few months as a cross with no minimum grade. That way, if PCGS determines it's genuine and gradable they can crack it out and get a good look at all three sides.
I'm guessing that waiting a few months would be a good idea because the coin is memorable.
Whatever you do, don't crack it out!
Lance.
After really giving it a good second going over I lean toward it being a contemporary struck counterfeit so I see where PCGS had difficulty. I'd much better the graders do that then simply bag it with no real explanation.
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