Some pics: two SC$'s, one through NCS, one a straight NGC and 1943-P/D/S copper. TT for picture to M
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
The So-Called Dollars are medals that I had pictured in this thread prior to submitting them to NGC, with the copper HK-829 going through NCS first. I think you'll agree that they "helped" the medal quite a bit. The fields were nicely reflective but that attribute was hidden by haze which gave the surface a flat, dull look. After conservation it appears more alive and fiery. Both sets of pictures were taken straight ahead with the same lighting and no adjustments aside from cropping and sizing. I had expected the grade to be MS63RB/cleaned due to some faint hairlining and was pleased with the result and grade assigned since I usually miss high!!!
The 1943-P/D/S/ Copper Lincolns are from the estate of a friend who worked as a Flea Market dealer for many, many years and seemed to come up with quite a few nice scores over the years. I made mention of the Cents in this thread and seemyauction asked for some pictures. I don't expect that the coins are Genuine since the weights are high on each, but they aren't magnetic so the counterfieter must have been smart and used a non-ferrous planchet. Here are the pictures and the weight/diameter of each:
1943-P/.751 in. and 4.0 grams.
1943-D/.754 in. and 4.1 grams.
1943-S/.754 in. and 3.8 grams.
Any comments are welcome. Thanks in advance and enjoy!!
Al H.
The 1943-P/D/S/ Copper Lincolns are from the estate of a friend who worked as a Flea Market dealer for many, many years and seemed to come up with quite a few nice scores over the years. I made mention of the Cents in this thread and seemyauction asked for some pictures. I don't expect that the coins are Genuine since the weights are high on each, but they aren't magnetic so the counterfieter must have been smart and used a non-ferrous planchet. Here are the pictures and the weight/diameter of each:
1943-P/.751 in. and 4.0 grams.
1943-D/.754 in. and 4.1 grams.
1943-S/.754 in. and 3.8 grams.
Any comments are welcome. Thanks in advance and enjoy!!
Al H.
0
Comments
I think it would be cool to have a collection of medals that all said things like rely on metal/gold/silver, no paper money, etc. Could be an interesting collection.
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i also think they're definitely fake, but they aren't mine and i was sending them in at the request of another collector.
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<< <i>Second opinion - the 1943 cents are fake. They appear to be struck counterfeits. >>
Since the original 1943 cents are steel, they can be easily used as hubs to create false dies.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>NCS ruined it. Had a lovely color before, now it's pink. >>
I agree, but the Confederation Dollar is stunning!
just so there's no mistake, the holdered HK-829 is the conserved picture, the "pink" picture is prior to NCS doing what they do.
what's interesting is that the two sets of pictures, before/after the trip to NCS, were shot with the same lighting and straight on. the "after" picture clearly shows the mirrors that can be seen on the "before" pictures in the linked thread only when the medal is tilted. all NCS did was remove the haze from about 145 years of poor storage. that type of conservation is very subjective, though, some collectors will always side with original even when the affect on the coin/medal isn't favorable. for my own part, i always try to be very careful about what i think NCS should consider.
the Confederation Dollar went straight to NGC because there's really nothing that could be done to remove the film on that, the mirrors are lost but still good enough for the PL designation. both medals would have been nice to see hot off the presses!!!
now you're really off the deep end, IMHO. how do you reach the conclusion that the medal is AT?? remember, i'm not trying to be arguementative, just trying to understand the reasoning that comes to that conclusion. an overlooked component of the work done by NCS is evaluation, wherein they examine a coin/medal to determine the nature/circumstances of the surfaces prior to any conservation being undertaken. i presume that they have experts on board with regards to the chemistry and metallurgy involved so that no damage will ocurr. the methods used(and i'm not privvy to anything NCS does) almost certainly shouldn't be confused with a private collector applying MS70 to old copper and enhancing it. rather, the surface film that interferes with light reflection/refraction is what seems to have been removed with this copper example.
if you look at the two sets of before/after pictures which i posted for precisely this reason, you can plainly see that the light and dark patterns on each are identical which tells me that essentially nothing was done to the overall surface of the medal to disturb the underlying copper. the oxidation film was simply removed. understandably, this is upsetting to some proponents of "original" since it's viewed as somehow damaging the coin/medal or done expressly for monetary reasons. there are those of us, however, who view things in an opposite manner: the potential for even greater long term damage has been removed/minimized, intended beauty has been restored and encapsulation will provide protection against any return of deterioration.
Nice medals!
i would say just about 400 million to one. not that i think they're real and that this is the one, but when you consider the odds in the lottery it looks pretty slim-----yet someone always wins.
i tried to give the coins back to the dealer who's representing the owner and he said that they want them examined, so they'll be sent in. all i can do is try to help, but i can't make someone avoid wasting their money. apparently it's human nature to hope for the pot-of-gold despite all the evidence that tells you it's fools gold.
<< <i>TTT for Marauderrt10. >>
Thank you keets, very interesting read
there seems to be a tendency regarding NCS and especially copper that they alter the surface when in reality they only remove contamination and haze. with this SC$ they removed contamination and haze yet left the warm tone while showing the highly reflective mirrors which had been previously obscured. that is what the Pattern you pictured looks to have had done, nothing was altered, the ability of light to be reflected off the coin's surface has only been improved which naturally makes the surfaces look different. call it "skin" or call it "originality" or whatever you want to call it, but when it obscures what the coin surface actually looks like i call it bad.
the truth be told here, "originality" is one of the most overused terms on this board of renowned experts. i find it disturbing that so many champion originality in the form or color out of one side of their mouths while spouting from the other side that the coin doctors are so good at their craft that they can fool everyone(except them of course). to be sure, most all of us don't really know that much about originality, we only trust what we believe in and what our continued experience teaches us. i only wish more members could look past their pride and admit as much but i doubt it will ever happen.