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Insurance on Express Mail shipments?
LRCTom
Posts: 857 ✭✭✭
I've always shipped coin packages valued over $600 by Registered Mail, but the slow delivery gets frustrating. I've noticed that others ship by Express Mail, purchasing extra insurance. But I've occasionally heard that insurance won't cover coins when Express Mail is used.
Searching this board, I found a thread from 2007, where Dave Wnuck made this statement:
<< <i>I would strongly, STRONGLY recommend registered mail instead of Express mail. Express mail is not insured for coins, no matter what your local postal clerk might tell you. >>
I've occasionally heard this from others as well.
So I spent an hour or so on the USPS website, trying to find where this is discussed. All I could find was this short statement on filing Express Mail insurance claims (Publication 122, under Express Mail Claims):
<< <i>c. For negotiable items, currency, or bullion, the maximum indemnity is $15. >>
Does this mean that USPS is interpreting numismatic items as one of the above? Has anyone had any experience with this, either in attempting to file an Express Mail insurance claim or in seeing anything else written on this?
...Tom
Searching this board, I found a thread from 2007, where Dave Wnuck made this statement:
<< <i>I would strongly, STRONGLY recommend registered mail instead of Express mail. Express mail is not insured for coins, no matter what your local postal clerk might tell you. >>
I've occasionally heard this from others as well.
So I spent an hour or so on the USPS website, trying to find where this is discussed. All I could find was this short statement on filing Express Mail insurance claims (Publication 122, under Express Mail Claims):
<< <i>c. For negotiable items, currency, or bullion, the maximum indemnity is $15. >>
Does this mean that USPS is interpreting numismatic items as one of the above? Has anyone had any experience with this, either in attempting to file an Express Mail insurance claim or in seeing anything else written on this?
...Tom
LRC Numismatics eBay listings:
http://stores.ebay.com/lrcnumismatics
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Comments
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
DMM
As far as coins go, the Express Mail $15 claim limit is for "bullion." If the coin is produced as bullion, but is professionally sealed and graded it is possible that it is now a numismatic item and not "bullion." This becomes a matter of interpretation. We need someone who has experienced an express claim with coins in general and with bullion coins to chime in.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
<< <i>As far as coins go, the Express Mail $15 claim limit is for "bullion." >>
They also include the term "Currency". Many in the general public would use this term to describe any legal tender: coins or "bills". I wonder if USPS uses the term this way, thereby also including collectible coins?
LRC Numismatics eBay listings:
http://stores.ebay.com/lrcnumismatics
<< <i>c. For negotiable items, currency, or bullion, the maximum indemnity is $15. >>
simple, slabbed collectible are not considered "negotiable items". They are as much a collector item as a Ming Vase or a Picasso and to consider them otherwise is just silly. Especially if someone paid $1,000+ for that "dollar" coin.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>c. For negotiable items, currency, or bullion, the maximum indemnity is $15. >>
simple, slabbed collectible are not considered "negotiable items". They are as much a collector item as a Ming Vase or a Picasso and to consider them otherwise is just silly. Especially if someone paid $1,000+ for that "dollar" coin. >>
How about a collectible that has 75% of it's value tied up in bullion like an MS70 Buffalo for $1400? --jerry
In other words, they'd gladly accept your money to pay for a higher insurance amount, but then would only cover you for $25K. I know it sounds strange, but then, it is the gubmint.
LRC Numismatics eBay listings:
http://stores.ebay.com/lrcnumismatics
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>c. For negotiable items, currency, or bullion, the maximum indemnity is $15. >>
simple, slabbed collectible are not considered "negotiable items". They are as much a collector item as a Ming Vase or a Picasso and to consider them otherwise is just silly. Especially if someone paid $1,000+ for that "dollar" coin. >>
How about a collectible that has 75% of it's value tied up in bullion like an MS70 Buffalo for $1400? --jerry >>
It shouldn't matter Jerry. Someone paid a certain amount for that collectible.
The name is LEE!
Our company has a policy with a private insurance company that will cover our USPS Express mail shipments up to $100,000 per package. This coverage costs us several thousand dollars per year.
Coin Rarities Online
g. Fair market value of stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value, as determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors newsletters and trade papers.
Regarding Express Mail claims, there is this:
b. Merchandise insurance coverage is provided against loss, damage, or rifling and is limited to $100. (Additional insurance, up to a maximum liability of $5,000.00, may be purchased for merchandise valued at more than $100.)
c. For negotiable items, currency, or bullion, the maximum indemnity is $15.00.
So I guess the question is- if your Express Mail package is lost, are the coins "merchandise" or "negotiable items". I'll bet if you ask 10 different postal workers, you'll get 11 different answers.
<< <i>And speaking of registered, I don't know if this is still the case, but I recall years ago shipping a group of coins and insuring the package for $40K. I was later told I paid extra for the amount above $25K, but that the postal service only would have paid me the $25K if the coins had been lost or stolen.
In other words, they'd gladly accept your money to pay for a higher insurance amount, but then would only cover you for $25K. I know it sounds strange, but then, it is the gubmint. >>
The extra fee is for extra security, including following the delivery in an unmarked vehicle if necessary. Essentially, they will guarantee delivery. If you ship a $50K item, don't declare the extra value and it gets lost; your entire claim will be denied on the basis that had they known the true value they would have handled it differently.
<< <i>Yes, that I do know. If your shipment is over 25K, you need to divide it into two shipments. >>
How do you divide a $50K coin into 2 shipments? I guess you can pay Brinks or Wells-Fargo $500 to do what the postal service will do for $50.
<< <i>My understanding is that it is still true that you cannot buy insurance from the USPS that will cover USPS Express mail shipments.
Our company has a policy with a private insurance company that will cover our USPS Express mail shipments up to $100,000 per package. This coverage costs us several thousand dollars per year. >>
Not true at all. Click on the get details link for rates which happen to be the same rates as for priority mail.
<< <i>According to the DMM, claims for numismatic items are paid as follows:
g. Fair market value of stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value, as determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors newsletters and trade papers.
Regarding Express Mail claims, there is this:
b. Merchandise insurance coverage is provided against loss, damage, or rifling and is limited to $100. (Additional insurance, up to a maximum liability of $5,000.00, may be purchased for merchandise valued at more than $100.)
c. For negotiable items, currency, or bullion, the maximum indemnity is $15.00.
So I guess the question is- if your Express Mail package is lost, are the coins "merchandise" or "negotiable items". I'll bet if you ask 10 different postal workers, you'll get 11 different answers.
I would guess that a "negotiable item" is more like something like a check or money order or letter of credit. If you were to overnite a $30K check to pay off your mortgage and it got lost, I don't think you'd be entitled to a $30K claim paid by the USPS since the check can be replaced. The coins would be merchandise as long as you can prove value.
<< <i>
<< <i>According to the DMM, claims for numismatic items are paid as follows:
g. Fair market value of stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value, as determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors newsletters and trade papers.
Regarding Express Mail claims, there is this:
b. Merchandise insurance coverage is provided against loss, damage, or rifling and is limited to $100. (Additional insurance, up to a maximum liability of $5,000.00, may be purchased for merchandise valued at more than $100.)
c. For negotiable items, currency, or bullion, the maximum indemnity is $15.00.
So I guess the question is- if your Express Mail package is lost, are the coins "merchandise" or "negotiable items". I'll bet if you ask 10 different postal workers, you'll get 11 different answers.
I would guess that a "negotiable item" is more like something like a check or money order or letter of credit. If you were to overnite a $30K check to pay off your mortgage and it got lost, I don't think you'd be entitled to a $30K claim paid by the USPS since the check can be replaced. The coins would be merchandise as long as you can prove value. >>
And if the coin is a $3000 gold eagle set, is it merchandise or is it bullion. Guess who makes the decision - not you or I. Since it's in the post office's best interest to call it bullion guess what they are going to call it.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>According to the DMM, claims for numismatic items are paid as follows:
g. Fair market value of stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value, as determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors newsletters and trade papers.
Regarding Express Mail claims, there is this:
b. Merchandise insurance coverage is provided against loss, damage, or rifling and is limited to $100. (Additional insurance, up to a maximum liability of $5,000.00, may be purchased for merchandise valued at more than $100.)
c. For negotiable items, currency, or bullion, the maximum indemnity is $15.00.
So I guess the question is- if your Express Mail package is lost, are the coins "merchandise" or "negotiable items". I'll bet if you ask 10 different postal workers, you'll get 11 different answers.
I would guess that a "negotiable item" is more like something like a check or money order or letter of credit. If you were to overnite a $30K check to pay off your mortgage and it got lost, I don't think you'd be entitled to a $30K claim paid by the USPS since the check can be replaced. The coins would be merchandise as long as you can prove value. >>
And if the coin is a $3000 gold eagle set, is it merchandise or is it bullion. Guess who makes the decision - not you or I. Since it's in the post office's best interest to call it bullion guess what they are going to call it. >>
Others here have ridiculed it when a common bullion coin brings Mega bux because of a first strike insert or other such thing. If you can prove the market value of the set, you might have a case. Then again, the Mint did sell it at bullion prices. You might want to make up a what if scenario and ask your Congressperson get you an answer.