To prevent the "manofcoins" numismatic problem, do any dealers act as a middleman between
Longacre
Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
First, let me say that no one loves manofcoins more than Longacre. However in this thread, he forces us to ponder another numismatic dilemma of his making.
Essentially, the issue is at what point a check should be sent to a seller, and at what point coins should be put in the mailbox to be sent to the buyer. At some point the two must cross, or otherwise, one should occur before the other.
Assuming that either party does not want to act first, do dealers ever act as a middleman in a transaction like this? For example, is it possible for manofcoins to say to the seller,
"although you are probably the most upstanding seller in the world, because I am the manofcoins, I would like some certainty and evidence of ethical conduct in our numismatic transaction. Therefore, I will send my check to Dealer X, and you send your coins to Dealer X, and only then will Dealer X route my check to you, and route the coins to me."
Is this possible? Will it solve manofcoins' issues?
Essentially, the issue is at what point a check should be sent to a seller, and at what point coins should be put in the mailbox to be sent to the buyer. At some point the two must cross, or otherwise, one should occur before the other.
Assuming that either party does not want to act first, do dealers ever act as a middleman in a transaction like this? For example, is it possible for manofcoins to say to the seller,
"although you are probably the most upstanding seller in the world, because I am the manofcoins, I would like some certainty and evidence of ethical conduct in our numismatic transaction. Therefore, I will send my check to Dealer X, and you send your coins to Dealer X, and only then will Dealer X route my check to you, and route the coins to me."
Is this possible? Will it solve manofcoins' issues?
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
0
Comments
<< <i>"although you are probably the most upstanding seller in the world, because I am the manofcoins, I would like some certainty and evidence of ethical conduct in our numismatic transaction. Therefore, I will send my check to Dealer X, and you send your coins to Dealer X, and only then will Dealer X route my check to you, and route the coins to me." >>
I think I'd rather augment my income by cutting the neighbor's lawn.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
There are well-established solutions for this very problem.
Edit: link fixed.
That assumes that I am not a party in the deal and all I do is verify the contents and reship.
If you want my professional help in consummating the deal such as opinions on the coins, then I would charge a small fee. --Jerry
<< <i>
<< <i>"although you are probably the most upstanding seller in the world, because I am the manofcoins, I would like some certainty and evidence of ethical conduct in our numismatic transaction. Therefore, I will send my check to Dealer X, and you send your coins to Dealer X, and only then will Dealer X route my check to you, and route the coins to me." >>
I think I'd rather augment my income by cutting the neighbor's lawn. >>
I think I would rather shave my head with a cheese grater.
Gary
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
<< <i>There are well-established solutions for this very problem. >>
ManofCoins problems will be solved when folks learn to do a link?
Or when folks learn that a URL (Universal Resource Locator) cannot contain "http:// and https://" or "http:// and http://" (i.e. http://http://) on the same line right next to each other.
Or when folks learn to "test" their threads using the "Preview" button and "click testing" each of their links to insure that other folks don't have to figure out what they are trying to link.
Other than that, only ManofCoins can prevent ManofCoins problems.
The name is LEE!
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
I'll mow any lawn and grate any head for the right amount of $$$.
<< <i>Not worth the trouble. Move on to something positive and happy. A coin deal should not entail such gnashing of the teeth. >>
How true. A simple solution to a complex problem
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
The end result was positive between Manofcoins and myself (LOG). In my opinion the forum was instrumental in making this happen.
Thanks to everyone and thanks to all that welcomed me to this forum.
<< <i>Longacre
The end result was positive between Manofcoins and myself (LOG). In my opinion the forum was instrumental in making this happen.
Thanks to everyone and thanks to all that welcomed me to this forum. >>
Wonderful! And welcome to our family. We solve many problems by airing dirty laundry.
Lance.
<< <i>Two years ago, a newbie appeared on the BST with an offer to sell an 1872-CC quarter in what appeared to be VF condtion. Several members ridiculed him for even trying to sell it there raw. I PM'ed him and politely negotiated an escrow service transaction based on his ability to get the coin graded and authenticated by PCGS. The coin was graded VF-30, and through the mutual agreement to use escrow.com, I was briefly in possession of the coin. Since I disagreed with the opinion rendered by the TPG, I returned it to the seller at no risk of financial loss, other than the escrow.com fees. Business is business. >>
Am I reading this right? You asked the seller to send it to PCGS for grade and obviously authenticity and PCGS graded the coin vf-30, YOU did not agree and backed out of the deal? Did you pay the seller for his time and obvious troubles that they went through to have the coin graded in the condition that not only appeared to be VF but was attested to as such?
I would look at you to honor what you asked and not have allowed you to back out of such a deal- since you were the one to ASK for special conditions. Your method of business is not sound- and if this is the way you work- I highly doubt that I would ever want to deal with you in any fashion- truly despicable is what comes to mind.
I truly hope you are not a dealer in any fashion, here or anywhere else.
Neither one of us will ever know.
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I would look at you to honor what you asked and not have allowed you to back out of such a deal- since you were the one to ASK for special conditions. Your method of business is not sound- and if this is the way you work- I highly doubt that I would ever want to deal with you in any fashion- truly despicable is what comes to mind.
>>
While reading that post, I too had some questions, but I didn't want to jump into a conclusion about the way that deal went down. coindeuce very well could have left out some things that could clearly have made them appear in better form. Although, a deal's a deal and based on what information was put forth, I too would not want to deal with coindeuce on any level. So maybe before slamming names around though, coindeuce could enlighten us with maybe more specifics or maybe coindeuce will say it is what it is as it was posted and well...that would be that!
So in other words the TPG has the final say as to grade and therefore value of any coin submitted? They cannot be in error. We all must abide by their final decision. It does look like plastic and not the coinj is where the entire value lies for some forum members.
As far as a 72cc quarter goes. This is a $5-10K coin with numerous fakes running around. It is a must for authentication. It is also a coin where the planchets tend to be a mess (corrosion, pitting, roughness, cleanings, etc.). Another must for being reviewed. On a coin such as this those 2 steps are probably MORE important than the actual grade assigned. And let's face it, there are plenty of better date certified seated coins which are moderately cleaned or have minor problems. It comes with the territory. After those 2 initial hurdles are cleared, then a grade can be assigned. The seller was going to maximize their dollars by getting this done, period. And by getting it in the PCGS holder they did themselves a huge favor. Good advice by Coindeuce.
Let's not forget sports' fans that a TPG label is only an opinion. And it's been conclusively shown over and over again that upon resubmittal that opinion can, and frequently does change. I've some seated coins grade one time in and then get no-graded the next time in. It happens. A rough planchet might make it ok this week but not next week. No one should be stuck with the highest possible grade assignment because someone got lucky on an assigned grade. Fwiw the majority of better date S and CC mint seated quarters that I see in holders I would not call problem-free. And as the date gets better, the more problems there are allowed to holder it. It's no different for early bust material where the majority of say 1794 dollars in holders have "issues." If that were a an 1893-s Morgan dollar it would never get graded.
If a potential buyers gets to see the coin in hand before it gets graded then a firm price depending on grade can be agreed upon. That was not the case here.
As far as the original question I know of numerous times where local or regional dealers have acted as middlemen for parties that did not know each other well enough for them to deal directly. In many cases the middleman often works close to 0% just to get a deal done with the chances of actual business further down the road. Everything doesn't have to be done for a fee. Any you don't have to necessarily resort to escrow.com or Tarantula & Tarantula Attorneys at law to assist you. In most cases I'd be most comfortable with a dealer who has 20-30 yrs of trade references and business conduct.
roadrunner