Question Regarding Genuine-Non Grade
CEOGBOSE
Posts: 377
I was wondering if anyone else is wondering the same thing. I'm by no means an expert at grading coins but feel reasonably sure I can tell or at least know when to be suspicious of a coin being cleaned or altered. I had purchased a while back 4 rolls various date what was advertised as uncirculated rolls of Morgans from a dealer. I decided to go through them meaning pulled out the 10X magnifyer extra lighting etc. and picked out a few 5 to be exact of what I thought were the best ones and sent them in. Now when I went through them I did find some that were definitely cleaned/whizzed to my disappointment however the 5 I sent in I couldn't see anything out of the ordinary very nice examples.
Ugh all 5 came back in PCGS holders GENUINE not one received a grade noted 94 Altered surfaces. Ok they're the pro's I'm not debating that but what I want to know is WHY, what did they detect and how did they detect it that I didn't? Was is whizzed, was it dipped, was it spit shinned, was it buffed. Would it be to much to ask to note that on the paperwork when they return it? I want to be able to avoid this in the future, I guess I'll just have to retire from submitting coins what's the point.
Is it to much to ask to get the details on why it wasn't gradable not just a generic code that could mean anything?
Ugh all 5 came back in PCGS holders GENUINE not one received a grade noted 94 Altered surfaces. Ok they're the pro's I'm not debating that but what I want to know is WHY, what did they detect and how did they detect it that I didn't? Was is whizzed, was it dipped, was it spit shinned, was it buffed. Would it be to much to ask to note that on the paperwork when they return it? I want to be able to avoid this in the future, I guess I'll just have to retire from submitting coins what's the point.
Is it to much to ask to get the details on why it wasn't gradable not just a generic code that could mean anything?
0
Comments
Without seeing the coins, it would be impossible to draw any conclusions on why the coins got genuined. This even includes photographs as you would not know what to shoot since you have no idea why the coins bagged. Right?
The name is LEE!
You are not alone in your frustration. Many collectors (and a few dealers) have a tough time with "well doctored" coins. Sadly, without seeing the coin in hand, the message board will not be able to provide the kind of information you need. Your best educational value is to take one of the grading or problem coin courses offered by the ANA.
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
any chance you can take some pics of the coins.
it would be interesting to see.
but if you found others in the rolls that were cleaned and/or whizzed, I'm suspecting all coins were 'treated' in some way or other.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
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<< <i>Greg-
You are not alone in your frustration. Many collectors (and a few dealers) have a tough time with "well doctored" coins. Sadly, without seeing the coin in hand, the message board will not be able to provide the kind of information you need. Your best educational value is to take one of the grading or problem coin courses offered by the ANA.
Lane >>
Yep your right and I can try and add pictures later but don't have a good enough camera to be able to take good quality photos and even photo grading is not the same as in hand. And again I'm not debating the non grade all I want is for them to tell me/us WHY they didn't grade it not just a code we're paying for it right?
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<< <i>Do you think it would take too much time for a grader to take notes on a specific coin. Would it cost pcgs to much time and money to have the grader write up his comments on a coin. Then say to send a letter about each coin that was marked genuine with his submission. This way the submitter would know exactly why his coin didnt grade. >>
No Coin Whizzed Done!
took two seconds
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<< <i>
<< <i>Do you think it would take too much time for a grader to take notes on a specific coin. Would it cost pcgs to much time and money to have the grader write up his comments on a coin. Then say to send a letter about each coin that was marked genuine with his submission. This way the submitter would know exactly why his coin didnt grade. >>
No Coin Whizzed Done!
took two seconds >>
I guess its too hard for them to do
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<< <i>
<< <i>Greg-
You are not alone in your frustration. Many collectors (and a few dealers) have a tough time with "well doctored" coins. Sadly, without seeing the coin in hand, the message board will not be able to provide the kind of information you need. Your best educational value is to take one of the grading or problem coin courses offered by the ANA.
Lane >>
Yep your right and I can try and add pictures later but don't have a good enough camera to be able to take good quality photos and even photo grading is not the same as in hand. And again I'm not debating the non grade all I want is for them to tell me/us WHY they didn't grade it not just a code we're paying for it right? >>
There is a pragmatic reason why you don't get the kind of explanation you would like (and most other recipients of "genuine" coins would like as well). The reason is one of time and resources. A grader spends a few seconds or slightly more looking at a coin. What takes the average collector or dealer a minute or more to do, an experienced grader can do in less than 10 seconds.
For a grader to provide a detailed, specific reason as to why a particular coin was given a "genuine" grade would take a least a few minutes. Keep in mind that at if at least two graders commented on the coin and a finalizer comments on the coin, there needs to be a consensus of these comments. Add to that the necessary copy-editing of the text and you have a significant investment of expert time for a $15-30 fee. It's economic suicide.
That's why direct, one-on-one instruction is so valuable...and a BARGAIN at ANA prices.
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Tilt and rotate the coins in the light, this way and that, bouncing the light off your coins into your eyes.
You will likely spot hairlines or other surface friction this way that are very hard to see in diffuse, ambient light.
edit: "altered surfaces" is also said about "thumbed" coins... look for signs of oil or smudge, especially on Liberty's cheek.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry