Hmmm dealers are at it too

Greeniejr · March 3, 2010 1:18AM

On the heals of our wonderful experience with the 09-S on eBay, before I could change our Slabbed listings to no-returns it happened again. This time it was a large national dealer playing the approval service game. TNFC on eBay, AKA Numismatic Financial Corporation, purchased an 1882-S Morgan Dollar in an ANACS MS66 holder for $275. I was shocked by the high bid but soon after the item was shipped I received this message "Hi- We received the subject coin, thank you for the prompt shipping. Unfortunatley, it is not of the quality we had hoped so we'll have to return the item for a refund. Thank you- NFC". I guess they were willing to risk to risk $8 in shipping to hit a $600 homerun if it were really a 67. It used to be buyer beware.... I guess it is now seller beware.

commoncents05 · March 3, 2010 1:22AM

<< On the heals of our wonderful experience with the 09-S on eBay, before I could change our Slabbed listings to no-returns it happened again. This time it was a large national dealer playing the approval service game. TNFC on eBay, AKA Numismatic Financial Corporation, purchased an 1882-S Morgan Dollar in an ANACS MS66 holder for $275. I was shocked by the high bid but soon after the item was shipped I received this message "Hi- We received the subject coin, thank you for the prompt shipping. Unfortunatley, it is not of the quality we had hoped so we'll have to return the item for a refund. Thank you- NFC". I guess they were willing to risk to risk $8 in shipping to hit a $600 homerun if it were really a 67. It used to be buyer beware.... I guess it is now seller beware. >>

So you think they bought an ANACS MS66, and returned it because they didn't think it was a 67? I guess I don't quite follow.

-Paul

TomB · March 3, 2010 1:23AM

You may change the terms of your listings to prohibit returns of slabbed coins and this might weed out some buyers or make others less inclined to return such items, but ebay and PayPal will still allow a return of these slabbed coins especially if the buyer files a significantly not as described (SNAD) claim.

Greeniejr · March 3, 2010 1:25AM

<< 

<< On the heals of our wonderful experience with the 09-S on eBay, before I could change our Slabbed listings to no-returns it happened again. This time it was a large national dealer playing the approval service game. TNFC on eBay, AKA Numismatic Financial Corporation, purchased an 1882-S Morgan Dollar in an ANACS MS66 holder for $275. I was shocked by the high bid but soon after the item was shipped I received this message "Hi- We received the subject coin, thank you for the prompt shipping. Unfortunatley, it is not of the quality we had hoped so we'll have to return the item for a refund. Thank you- NFC". I guess they were willing to risk to risk $8 in shipping to hit a $600 homerun if it were really a 67. It used to be buyer beware.... I guess it is now seller beware. >>

So you think they bought an ANACS MS66, and returned it because they didn't think it was a 67? I guess I don't quite follow.

-Paul >>

Well I bet they were hoping it would at least cross at 66

Robb · March 3, 2010 1:27AM

I'm torn on this. I completely understand the frustration on the seller's end but at the same time I'm thrilled to see buyers giving more merit to the coin itself rather than it's plastic and label.

johnny9434 · March 3, 2010 1:30AM

I never really understood why people do that but to each our own.

au58 · March 3, 2010 1:30AM

In my opinion, the mindset displayed by the buyer epitomizes much of what is wrong with ebay.

Instead of "an auction is an auction is an auction" and "what you see is what you get", the buyer says "...we had hoped...".

An auction is not about hope.

In addition, insistence on a return policy exacerbates this issue. If you don't like what you see, don't bid on it.

Greeniejr · March 3, 2010 1:31AM

<< I'm torn on this. I completely understand the frustration on the seller's end but at the same time I'm thrilled to see buyers giving more merit to the coin itself rather than it's plastic and label. >>

I agree with you completely as to people wanting the coin to be all there but when you are dealing with a .01 start price auction. Of you are not confident in the coin, dont bid

CaptHenway · March 3, 2010 1:37AM

I have seen the coin. It is nice. There was no reason to return it.

As David says, the guy must have been hoping for a crossover. Gee, if you want to end up with an (XYZ grading company) MS-66, why not BID on an (XYZ grading company) MS-66 in the first place???

TD

UncleJoe · March 3, 2010 1:46AM

<< I have seen the coin. It is nice. There was no reason to return it.

As David says, the guy must have been hoping for a crossover. Gee, if you want to end up with an (XYZ grading company) MS-66, why not BID on an (XYZ grading company) MS-66 in the first place???

TD >>

Because you can't make quick money that way!

Joe.

TwoSides2aCoin · March 3, 2010 1:49AM

That's the best thing about eBay. No seller is immune from the whims of a buyer, while eBay always gets paid.
Great business model. Thanks for the heads up.

Robb · March 3, 2010 1:58AM

<< That's the best thing about eBay. No seller is immune from the whims of a buyer, while eBay always gets paid.
Great business model. Thanks for the heads up. >>

No, eBay will not make money on this transaction if the seller follows through with the "paperwork". The only way for eBay to make money off of it is if the seller doesn't do the paperwork or if the seller listed the auction during a promo event and relists on a regular fee schedule.

66RB · March 3, 2010 2:09AM

hey, at least you got an email telling you their intentions to return it.

I've had a buyer on eBay just send stuff back with no communication whatsoever, only a note with two words..."issue refund". Nice, thanks for the heads up and oh, what's that, it was a forum member here who sells quite a bit on eBay?

I agree about the looking to make a quick buck part too.

BBN · March 3, 2010 2:14AM

<< I have seen the coin. It is nice. There was no reason to return it.

As David says, the guy must have been hoping for a crossover. Gee, if you want to end up with an (XYZ grading company) MS-66, why not BID on an (XYZ grading company) MS-66 in the first place???

TD >>

TNFC wants to make a ridiculous profit. Try to cross it over and hope it crosses and then stick it in their BIN inventory

dsessom · March 3, 2010 2:17AM

<< On the heals of our wonderful experience with the 09-S on eBay, before I could change our Slabbed listings to no-returns it happened again. This time it was a large national dealer playing the approval service game. TNFC on eBay, AKA Numismatic Financial Corporation, purchased an 1882-S Morgan Dollar in an ANACS MS66 holder for $275. I was shocked by the high bid but soon after the item was shipped I received this message "Hi- We received the subject coin, thank you for the prompt shipping. Unfortunatley, it is not of the quality we had hoped so we'll have to return the item for a refund. Thank you- NFC". I guess they were willing to risk to risk $8 in shipping to hit a $600 homerun if it were really a 67. It used to be buyer beware.... I guess it is now seller beware. >>

I'd block them from any future bidding. I have done business with them as a buyer and had no issues, but that kind of crap is a waste of your time and money.

PerryHall · March 3, 2010 2:24AM

To buy a coin and then return it sounds expensive---paying for registered/insured shipping both ways ain't cheap.

Unknown · March 3, 2010 2:30AM

This content has been removed.

doh · March 3, 2010 2:45AM

I'm sorry, I don't see the issue. The returned a coin, big deal, happens all the time. They didn't try to extort feedback, or demand a partial refund, or screw around on payment.

BigRick · March 3, 2010 2:53AM

If you allow returns there's nothing to complain about when someone exercises the right YOU granted.

Barry · March 3, 2010 3:27AM

I'm surprised TNFC returned it. They could put it in one of their their-tier slabs with any grade they want.

BaseballAbs · March 3, 2010 3:30AM

I agree! You agreed to offer a return policy so you should honor that with no complaint.

Tdec1000 · March 3, 2010 3:35AM

<< If you allow returns there's nothing to complain about when someone exercises the right YOU granted. >>

It doesn't matter.....paypal is paid and the buyer in ANY circumstance can recieve a refund even if you DON'T offer one in your listing. Like TomB said, all they have to do is file a claim.

Tom

BaseballAbs · March 3, 2010 3:48AM

.

Greeniejr · March 3, 2010 4:00AM

Who's to say that we did not honor our word. As I said I will admit I forgot to change the terms though the terms really don't mean anything because of Paypal. As soon as we recieved the coin we refunded the Paypal and are waiting for them to cancel the sale on eBay.

jesbroken · March 3, 2010 4:12AM

I agree with Tom. We all know the rules when using ebay/paypal. We should expect the rules to be utilized by someone at some time. If the coin as Capt. says should not have been returned then sobeit, that just means the buyer was being greedy. Let them exercise their right and get on with it. Block them if it suits you, as it is your ONLY recourse(saying asis only makes it worse for ebay/paypal will decide your fate). Ebay/Paypal are the buyers paradise for the time being, but if we use them, then what happens happens. I never touch the money I receive for 14 days after the buyer receives the coin and so far none have asked for a refund that far out. Great luck in the future.
Jim

Coinsponge · March 3, 2010 4:39AM

I would raise the shipping price a bit to discourage speculative buying.

roadrunner · March 3, 2010 5:38AM

TNFC on eBay, AKA Numismatic Financial Corporation, purchased an 1882-S Morgan Dollar in an ANACS MS66 holder for $275. I was shocked by the high bid but soon after the item was shipped I received this message "Hi- We received the subject coin, thank you for the prompt shipping. Unfortunately, it is not of the quality we had hoped so we'll have to return the item for a refund. Thank you- NFC". I guess they were willing to risk to risk $8 in shipping to hit a $600 homerun if it were really a 67. It used to be buyer beware.... I guess it is now seller beware.

I realized long ago that there's about zero chance of me beating TNFC at their own game...not to mention I got tired of sellers posting their entire inventories. There may be fair deals in there but they are too sharp to leave money on the ebay table. I've often bid high on ebay material with the hope of an upgrade but I've never returned such a coin unless it was overhyped/not decent for grade.

An auction is not about hope.

When a seller mispresents a coin due to a lack of knowledge or intending to deceive then "hope" breaks down. In those cases I feel that auction sales should be approval sales....even if the seller states "no returns." Hey, if they're crooks, a little verbage shouldn't stand in the way of ethics. It cost me a few negs along the way but letting bad sellers continue to pad their feedback is not right. Just my 2 cents. Hope should have nothing to do with an auction that is properly described and represented. And a seller stating "I have no clue as to what this is worth or what condition it is in" is hardly an excuse. 95% of them know exactly what they have and what it's worth. If you really don't know what you have then find out what it is you have before you go to sell it.

At $275 + shipping TNFC was paying well over sheet "ask" for the coin. So either they were hoping for an upgrade or possibly a PL designation. Even if crossed over they couldn't make money on that coin considering it bids around $225....and common Morgans are still very weak. Now if the coin were in an old mini-ANACS slab with the gold foil reverse (circa 1990) then I can understand why bidders would push the price up and have a fair expectation of getting an upgrade or at least a PQ+ coin.

roadrunner

Greeniejr · March 3, 2010 5:57AM

You be the judge, was this coin misrepresented Linky

NH484000 · March 3, 2010 6:03AM

<< You be the judge, was this coin misrepresented Linky >>

IMO, no.

coinman420 · March 3, 2010 6:34AM

<< You be the judge, was this coin misrepresented Linky >>

no.

keets · March 3, 2010 6:37AM

ebay and PayPal will still allow a return of these slabbed coins especially if the buyer files a significantly not as described (SNAD) claim.

i can't understand how this could be done with a slabbed coin.

illini420 · March 3, 2010 6:51AM

<< 

i can't understand how this could be done with a slabbed coin. >>

I returned a slabbed coin I bought from eBay because when I got it in hand there was a signficant spot that wasn't visible in the seller's photos because of the angle of lighting they used (not sure whether it was intentional).

droopyd · March 3, 2010 6:51AM

<< You be the judge, was this coin misrepresented Linky >>

The photos could have been bigger, but unless the coin does not look like these photos (which I doubt), the coin was not misrepresented in any way.

BigE · March 3, 2010 8:30AM

Charge them a restocking fee on graded coins, it is an hour or two of your life with photo, mailing etc. besides your shipping costs------------------BigE

chucknra · March 3, 2010 9:32AM

Many sellers don't allow returns on slabbed coins. That's what I'd do if I were you...especially if it's from one of the top three TPGs.

Connecticoin · March 3, 2010 10:20AM

<< You be the judge, was this coin misrepresented Linky >>

No, that's a nice coin. NFC gambled on a upgrade and lost -- they should just keep it. If the listing was "no returns", this is a case where the seller might win a SNAD claim. Unfortunately, if you offer a return policy, you will get a buttmunch tire kicker now and then. Some jerk returned a Saint to me after gold dropped $100 in 2 days. Just refund, block and move on.

kaz · March 3, 2010 10:21AM

I used to be really aggravated when I saw restocking fees in auction listing terms-- however, I can see how they would help to curb this type of behavior with respect to certified coins.

Tdec1000 · March 3, 2010 10:46AM

<< You be the judge, was this coin misrepresented Linky >>

No I don't believe that any of your auctions are misrepresented but your pictures have much to be desired. Try taking better upclose photos and you will probably make more $$$

Tom

notwilight · March 3, 2010 10:54AM

You guys know that as a seller I tend to favor excellent customer service and have the belief that the dealer should generally accommodate the buyers quirks.

However, I don't believe ebay should be treated as an approval service and am with the OP here. The return feature is for a coin that doesn't match what you think the description says. If the coin is as described, the buyer should keep it.

Of course if anyone want's to ask for approval service on a coin I'm likely to grant it but I probably won't want to give ebay and paypal 10% of that deal.

--Jerry

Hmmm dealers are at it too

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