Genuine With Unc Details (?!?)...What's Up With That?
RichR
Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
Ok...if a very nice looking coin is in a "Genuine" slab "With Unc Details"...what exactly happened there?
Was the grader just not sure enough to turn thumbs up or down re cleaning, altered surfaces or some other kind of specific manipulation.
The coin in question was a 1932D Washington Quarter selling for $600...and yes, I wasthisclose to picking it up. It appeared to be at least MS63.
Unfortunately, I didn't take a picture of it.
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Comments
So...let's say you buy this coin, crack it out, and park it in a Dansco (or similar) album for 5-10 years...and then resubmit...then what?
<< <i>It's a cleaned uncirculated coin. It was probably toned and someone scrubbed the toning off. >>
don't automatically assume the coin was bad. I have heards some horror stories of perfectly good coins getting BB just so they send the coins back in a few times.
<< <i>So...let's say you buy this coin, crack it out, and park it in a Dansco (or similar) album for 5-10 years...and then resubmit...then what? >>
Good question. Depends on the coin, I suppose, and the secondary toning, and how much luster got killed when it was dipped or worse, whizzed, and what service it is submitted to.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
<< <i>I have heards some horror stories of perfectly good coins getting BB just so they send the coins back in a few times. >>
I honestly don't believe that. That sounds like the story of a jaded collector/dealer. Everybody thinks their coin is "perfectly good." More than likely, different graders saw the coin and it eventually got into a holder. We all know that happens, but intentionally BBing a coin just so it gets submitted a few more times makes absolutely no sense.
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<< <i>I have heards some horror stories of perfectly good coins getting BB just so they send the coins back in a few times. >>
I honestly don't believe that. That sounds like the story of a jaded collector/dealer. Everybody thinks their coin is "perfectly good." More than likely, different graders saw the coin and it eventually got into a holder. We all know that happens, but intentionally BBing a coin just so it gets submitted a few more times makes absolutely no sense. >>
Believe what you want. This is coming from not one, but numerous people I know who have graded for both NGC/PCGS.
After a few years of exposure in an album...I'm thinking that some of the more obvious sins of the past (and they're not obviously gross to start) might diminish.
At least I'd take this coin over anything outright branded "altered surfaces".
depends on what the cause is - most it won't matter if they stay in an album 100 years, they will still have problem
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<< <i>
<< <i>I have heards some horror stories of perfectly good coins getting BB just so they send the coins back in a few times. >>
I honestly don't believe that. That sounds like the story of a jaded collector/dealer. Everybody thinks their coin is "perfectly good." More than likely, different graders saw the coin and it eventually got into a holder. We all know that happens, but intentionally BBing a coin just so it gets submitted a few more times makes absolutely no sense. >>
Believe what you want. This is coming from not one, but numerous people I know who have graded for both NGC/PCGS. >>
About an even chance of losing the customer to another grading service as there is of seeing the coin resubmitted IMO.
And if it was ever proven it could be fatal to a company’s reputation.
So I am of the opium that some submitters will do or say anything.
<< <i>It's the "with Unc details" part that intrigued me...it looked MS to me...and obviously looked pretty good to the grader also...to warrant the Unc. details note.
After a few years of exposure in an album...I'm thinking that some of the more obvious sins of the past (and they're not obviously gross to start) might diminish.
At least I'd take this coin over anything outright branded "altered surfaces". >>
Send it back in I bet it will grade. SeaEagleCoins had some coins in genuine holders. He cracked em out and submitted them a year later and they graded them all.
In the case of the coin in question there is no way we can say exactly what it means till we see it. It does not take much to get the Genuine slab.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
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<< <i>It's a cleaned uncirculated coin. It was probably toned and someone scrubbed the toning off. >>
don't automatically assume the coin was bad. I have heards some horror stories of perfectly good coins getting BB just so they send the coins back in a few times. >>
Just so were clear, when you do this the coin doesn't change just because the opinion of it did.
Without seeing the coin or the stated problem, that is a very bad bet
UNC details look MS to me -- thats what uncirculated details means
if there is a big scratch, or harshly cleaned - it will be in a problem holder from any TPG - most likely
unless you can grade very well, stay away from problems
they become bigger problems when no dealer wants to pay more than XF45 price
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<< <i>It's the "with Unc details" part that intrigued me...it looked MS to me...and obviously looked pretty good to the grader also...to warrant the Unc. details note.
After a few years of exposure in an album...I'm thinking that some of the more obvious sins of the past (and they're not obviously gross to start) might diminish.
At least I'd take this coin over anything outright branded "altered surfaces". >>
Send it back in I bet it will grade. SeaEagleCoins had some coins in genuine holders. He cracked em out and submitted them a year later and they graded them all. >>
Actually... to set the record straight... what I had were some coins that had been BB'd about a year before the intro of the Gennie holders... I then sent them in with the intent of getting them into the gennie holders... and surprise surprise... they got graded instead...
I infer nothing conspiratorial in this... but it does get me to wonder a little about the grading "game" as a whole... with multiple submissions yielding multiple results... exactly which opinion should I consider to be the "correct" one?
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<< <i>
<< <i>It's the "with Unc details" part that intrigued me...it looked MS to me...and obviously looked pretty good to the grader also...to warrant the Unc. details note.
After a few years of exposure in an album...I'm thinking that some of the more obvious sins of the past (and they're not obviously gross to start) might diminish.
At least I'd take this coin over anything outright branded "altered surfaces". >>
Send it back in I bet it will grade. SeaEagleCoins had some coins in genuine holders. He cracked em out and submitted them a year later and they graded them all. >>
Actually... to set the record straight... what I had were some coins that had been BB'd about a year before the intro of the Gennie holders... I then sent them in with the intent of getting them into the gennie holders... and surprise surprise... they got graded instead...
I infer nothing conspiratorial in this... but it does get me to wonder a little about the grading "game" as a whole... with multiple submissions yielding multiple results... exactly which opinion should I consider to be the "correct" one? >>
Story cracks me up everytime Larry
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
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<< <i>It's a cleaned uncirculated coin. It was probably toned and someone scrubbed the toning off. >>
don't automatically assume the coin was bad. I have heards some horror stories of perfectly good coins getting BB just so they send the coins back in a few times. >>
No way, I can't believe that for a second!!!
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<< <i>
<< <i>It's a cleaned uncirculated coin. It was probably toned and someone scrubbed the toning off. >>
don't automatically assume the coin was bad. I have heards some horror stories of perfectly good coins getting BB just so they send the coins back in a few times. >>
No way, I can't believe that for a second!!!
Ignorance is bliss
It was the one that's...ahem...near and dear to our hearts.
And I knew I should have taken a photo of it...but all I had handy was a cell phone and the resolution would have been beyond awful.
A 32-D possibly Unc. quarter for $600...I guess I should have rolled the dice on that one. It's not like my rotten kids would have cared after pop croaked and they sold it for silver content anyhow!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It's a cleaned uncirculated coin. It was probably toned and someone scrubbed the toning off. >>
don't automatically assume the coin was bad. I have heards some horror stories of perfectly good coins getting BB just so they send the coins back in a few times. >>
No way, I can't believe that for a second!!!
Ignorance is bliss
Do you like conspiracy theories? If so, I can understand why you might believe this.
We've joked about it before, as a way for PCGS to improve the bottom line. But I think very, very few collectors believe PCGS would BB a gradable coin just for more grading fees.
It's just dumb talk and nothing more. And I wouldn't be surprised if that kind of talk would get someone banished.
Lance.
they just have PCGS Genuine on the obverse
and GENUINE NOT GRADABLE on the reverse
and where the grade goes on the certification line, is a 'problem' code, saying what the main problem is
so on the good side, it is authentic without any added mintmark or counterfeit
are you sure it was not an ANACS or NGC/NCS slab? they say Unc Details
<<are you sure it was not an ANACS or NGC/NCS slab? they say Unc Details>>
Honestly...no...as it was one of hundreds I looked at that day...and they all begin to blur after a few hours...and a couple of chili dogs!
say, 20 months and grade the coin the same each and every time? Why would you expect anyone else
to do so?
Edited to add: Oh, and also have looked at and graded 100's of other coins each and every day too.
Steve
<< <i>Who here could look at the same coin 10 times (without knowing it was the same coin) over a period of
say, 20 months and grade the coin the same each and every time? Why would you expect anyone else
to do so? >>
Because they're purporting themselves as (koff) experts.
Because they're purporting themselves as (koff koff) accurate and consistent.
Because they're continuing to take my money every time they look at it.
Because they've set up this facade of market dominance and acceptibility wherein only items in XYZ or ABCD holders are somehow worthy of owning.
Because a coin is what it is, and hasn't magically acquired more or less wear since the last time they slabbed it.
Because a coin is either genuine or not genuine, and doesn't magically change from one to the other multiple times, no matter who's seen it.
In short, they created this product and must therefore be held accountable for their shortcomings.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012