Ebay Seller Making California Proofs.......gaaah
shottaker
Posts: 309
Not familiar with posting links etc. Want to see a crying shame? Check out this guys purchases and sales. Matched the following 2 coins by their rims in about 5 minutes of boredom........
Note most of the monster gems appear to have a little polishing compound? left on the edges. Nice froting job though and its sad to see he's learning and getting better at it. Check out his first few gem dmpl coins vs this weeks.
Match the rim nicks, this is sad. Careful examination confirms it.
Ebay Purchase item # 140377133026
Currently for sale as item # 320494111703
Hint 11 oclock small rim tick on reverse (above a t in states) and the defining rim marks are at 3 oclock on the reverse.......
Guess someone on ebay figured out how to make cali proofs..........wish these morons would just die. Cant sell any real coins raw retail anymore due to the sleazery.
Thought a heads up might save a few initiates but figure most would see it as too good to be true.....
Note most of the monster gems appear to have a little polishing compound? left on the edges. Nice froting job though and its sad to see he's learning and getting better at it. Check out his first few gem dmpl coins vs this weeks.
Match the rim nicks, this is sad. Careful examination confirms it.
Ebay Purchase item # 140377133026
Currently for sale as item # 320494111703
Hint 11 oclock small rim tick on reverse (above a t in states) and the defining rim marks are at 3 oclock on the reverse.......
Guess someone on ebay figured out how to make cali proofs..........wish these morons would just die. Cant sell any real coins raw retail anymore due to the sleazery.
Thought a heads up might save a few initiates but figure most would see it as too good to be true.....
0
Comments
Link Two
He's pretty damn good at it.
Think its a seller I've watched for at least 4 years out of the NY area that always has "awesome" dmpl coins then gets booted from ebay and starts over somewhere else again. He used to take funky angle lighting photos. Now the buyer wont know until they get body bags back.
First time ive seen california proofs by him though and for that matter in bulk on ebay.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
-Paul
If he comes in to your store and shows you one drop it really hard and watch his face when a few hours of work goes down the drain.
a DMPL per them. Perhaps the first seller has no clue as to how to take pics and it truly is
DMPL. Maybe this new seller got the coin and just knew it was worth a ton with good pics?
bob
<< <i>I don't see how those are the same coin...How does he get rid of the nicks on the devices? He fills them with a compound or something?
-Paul >>
Theyre the same coin. And the or something is right. Looks like he found a better filler then auto putty. Might not be using a filler though. I know the "original" cali proof altered morgans werent filled and were artificially frosted.
Think he's just polishing to the moon then applying the frost like the originals.
<< <i>I do see what you say. However, even though it's a lousy 3rd party grading company it is
a DMPL per them. Perhaps the first seller has no clue as to how to take pics and it truly is
DMPL. Maybe this new seller got the coin and just knew it was worth a ton with good pics?
bob >>
That's not it. Look at the seller's other listings too.
<< <i>I do see what you say. However, even though it's a lousy 3rd party grading company it is
a DMPL per them. Perhaps the first seller has no clue as to how to take pics and it truly is
DMPL. Maybe this new seller got the coin and just knew it was worth a ton with good pics?
bob >>
Naah centsless just scans everything and is a self slabber (he owns nnc bought it from a dealer in detroit). The coin was probably a pl at best to begin with. Even if it was dmpl it wasnt near the grade it is now. Centles isnt a coin noob and has been around a while both on the bourse floors and online. he wouldve sent it in to pcgs/ngc if it was that nice.
I can match many other coins to purchases this guy has and theres no way these coins werent altered and worked to the moon.
Pics dont account for it. Not even close.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
<< <i>Read my edited response. >>
Think he needs another beatdown. Unfortunate how google can edumacate toolboxes like this guy.
PS I must be bored tonight, I reported him and emailed a few of the "DMPL" buyers, let's see what develops. Does this make me a member of the Coin Police?
Great detective work shottaker!!!!
He bought it Feb 9th....plenty of time to do his evil work!!
Linker
<< <i>What do you mean by "California" proof? >>
Its a term for some morgans that were processed very expertly in the 80's and originated somewhere in california. They fooled a lot of small time dealers for a while. Theyre worked and processed to look to good to be true.
A lot of dealers called them that back in the 80's and 90's. I think the pcgs guide used to reference them at one time also.
<< <i>What do you mean by "California" proof? >>
The moniker came from the fact that the original maker of this type of alteration was from the Bay area of San Francisco.
Business strike brilliant unc. common dates are polished to impart the prooflike appearance of the fields, and then the devices are artificially frosted by an application of a material, often metallic laquer, to create a cameo proof appearance. The term relates only to Morgan Dollars that have been altered in this manner.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
<< <i>Instant Karma's going to get you >>
Think it already did today before I posted here. Had a stunning day at the office. Gimme a half hour or so and I'll post pics of the 1919-D SLQ in 65 and shot fullhead we bought raw today. The fullhead depends on how tough they are atm. Havent sent any fh candidates for submission in a while. Thats one coin series we very rarely buy in ms here in MI.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
There is a slight diagonal rim nick above the E in AMERICA on the Centsles coin that does not exist on the contact444 coin.
There is a rim nick above the R in AMERICA on the contact444 coin that does not exist on the centsles coin.
There are rim nicks below the LL of DOLLAR on the contact444 coin which do not exist on the centsles coin.
The name is LEE!
But his coins are way too good to be true. He won't last long.
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$860 Winning Bid
Linky
What insane buyer would buy this raw polished coin????
<< <i>He just started on ebay in October, and has been selling small cost items, suddenly he has these DMPL's to sell?
PS I must be bored tonight, I reported him and emailed a few of the "DMPL" buyers, let's see what develops. Does this make me a member of the Coin Police?
<< <i>
$860 Winning Bid
Linky
What insane buyer would buy this raw polished coin???? >>
It doesn't look polished from the photo. It just looks "too good" honestly.
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<< <i>Sorry, I'm just not convinced it's the same coin.
There is a slight diagonal rim nick above the E in AMERICA on the Centsles coin that does not exist on the contact444 coin.
There is a rim nick above the R in AMERICA on the contact444 coin that does not exist on the centsles coin.
There are rim nicks below the LL of DOLLAR on the contact444 coin which do not exist on the centsles coin.
Different angles on the shots and while the one above the e doesnt appear to exist on one photo the others may be new or from dropping the coin during polishing it. He did buy several of the same date and it may be another one of them. the difference between scans and pics might hide or show small differences on the rims of the coin but you may well be right. I'll restudy the other coins he purchased but I still see the small tick at 11 oclock that matches. It may be one of the other 1898's he bought online though. Either way the fact remains the coins are bad bad bad.
<< <i>
<< <i>
$860 Winning Bid
Linky
What insane buyer would buy this raw polished coin???? >>
It doesn't look polished from the photo. It just looks "too good" honestly. >>
You're right, helluva doctor job.
No chatter to be seen....just not possible.
Not sure how he made the devices so frosty.....Une petite Blaster de Sand?
Here's my 1883-CC DMPL for comparison.......
<< <i>
<< <i>Sorry, I'm just not convinced it's the same coin.
There is a slight diagonal rim nick above the E in AMERICA on the Centsles coin that does not exist on the contact444 coin.
There is a rim nick above the R in AMERICA on the contact444 coin that does not exist on the centsles coin.
There are rim nicks below the LL of DOLLAR on the contact444 coin which do not exist on the centsles coin.
Different angles on the shots and while the one above the e doesnt appear to exist on one photo the others may be new or from dropping the coin during polishing it. He did buy several of the same date and it may be another one of them. the difference between scans and pics might hide or show small differences on the rims of the coin but you may well be right. I'll restudy the other coins he purchased but I still see the small tick at 11 oclock that matches. It may be one of the other 1898's he bought online though. Either way the fact remains the coins are bad bad bad. >>
Look at the eyelid on the original, there is a little 45 degree nick on the lid, on the "finished" piece part of the nick is there, same spot , but the lower half has been...whizzed away, there is no doubt about it ladies and gentlemen of the jury.
<< <i>Sorry, I'm just not convinced it's the same coin.
There is a slight diagonal rim nick above the E in AMERICA on the Centsles coin that does not exist on the contact444 coin.
There is a rim nick above the R in AMERICA on the contact444 coin that does not exist on the centsles coin.
There are rim nicks below the LL of DOLLAR on the contact444 coin which do not exist on the centsles coin.
Sorry, but you are incorrect, read my above post.
<< <i>
<< <i>Sorry, I'm just not convinced it's the same coin.
There is a slight diagonal rim nick above the E in AMERICA on the Centsles coin that does not exist on the contact444 coin.
There is a rim nick above the R in AMERICA on the contact444 coin that does not exist on the centsles coin.
There are rim nicks below the LL of DOLLAR on the contact444 coin which do not exist on the centsles coin.[ >>
Different angles on the shots and while the one above the e doesnt appear to exist on one photo the others may be new or from dropping the coin during polishing it. He did buy several of the same date and it may be another one of them. the difference between scans and pics might hide or show small differences on the rims of the coin but you may well be right. I'll restudy the other coins he purchased but I still see the small tick at 11 oclock that matches. It may be one of the other 1898's he bought online though. Either way the fact remains the coins are bad bad bad. >>
Well if one small tick doesn't count (because of lighting) why on earth would another???
I'm sorry, I'm just not convinced.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Sorry, but you are incorrect, read my above post.
WHICH "above" post might that be??
The eye tick post?
So let me get this straight, this fellow can remove all the crap thats on the original coin but not the "eye" tick (which does not look like its in the same location anyway)??
He can also sculpt that eyelid with such precision yet not get rid of that danged tick?? How frustrating must that be?
Nope, still not convinced and BTW, I'm not incorrect just as you are not correct. I am simply unconvinced and there is a difference.
The name is LEE!
In fact, they were struck from different obverse dies.
Note the position of the date relative to the denticles below,
particularly the position of the denticle gap below the "9",
and the distances between the date digits and rim.
Regardless, the proof-like coin has been heavily "processed".
<< <i>
<< <i>Sorry, but you are incorrect, read my above post.
WHICH "above" post might that be??
The eye tick post?
So let me get this straight, this fellow can remove all the crap thats on the original coin but not the "eye" tick (which does not look like its in the same location anyway)??
He can also sculpt that eyelid with such precision yet not get rid of that danged tick?? How frustrating must that be?
Nope, still not convinced and BTW, I'm not incorrect just as you are not correct. I am simply unconvinced and there is a difference. >>
The nick or tick on the original is in the shape of a the first two lines in a z, the middle or second line in the original is much lighter than the first ot top line. In the "new" coin, the bottom line is gone and the top line, which was deeper, is still there, and the top line is in absolutely the same place on both coins. If he is polishing out defects, he is limited by the depth of the defect, shallow marks are easy, as you get deeper it is harder. I have quite a bit of experience restoring antique ceramics and I know this to be a fact. Trying to polish out a mark works until you get to a certain depth, if you go beyond it you have a depression. The bottom line was shallow, presto it's gone, the top was deeper, I think our boy knew that, and stopped when he did. And I'm sorry that I said you were incorrect, I should have said I think you are wrong.
Can you show me these prooflike Morgans in Pittsford? I live right near the village.
Lets see how he responds. Any bets he declines a personal viewing?
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
while it is curious to notice similar rim nicks, is that really a good way to ID a coin?? maybe the VAM guys can help and find more conclusive evidence.