Dealer selling counterfeit coins........what would you do?

Manorcourtman · February 23, 2010 11:06AM

So what would you do if you knew of a dealer knowingly selling counterfeit coins as the real deal? I have first hand info that this is going on and am looking for some advice on how to handle the situation. First a couple of facts: 1. The dealer was exposed on eBay 2 years ago for this scam and hasn't sold there since( multiple negative feedbacks were left for scams they were caught in). 2. The dealer has 7 cases filed against them in the past 2 years with the BBB for shady dealings and/or poor business practices. 3. I have personally seen 4 counterfeit coins, they are contemporary Chinese fakes that can be obtained on eBay. 4. They won't answer their phone or emails now that the coins have been returned to them and they have over $2000 in my friends money. 5. Their website is gone and they don't have a store only a PO box. 6. The buyer still has one of the counterfeit coins for evidence.

A complaint was filed today with BBB. A report was also emailed to the local Police department in their hometown for some advice(they have not responded). Would you call the Secret Service to report counterfeit money being sold as real? Would you call Postal Inspectors for mail fraud issues( the coins were paid for with USPS Money orders) and our local Postmaster says it is mail fraud for theft by deception through the US Postal system. Any thoughts are appreciated. BTW he found this dealer through a large national coin publications website directory and yes the publication was notified and has not pulled their listing. HELP please!!!

Edited to add- info included below...

Ahrensdad · February 23, 2010 11:11AM

It seems like a couple laws (federal) were violated. Hobby Protection Act. Mail fraud. Those are the two that come to mind. I'm no lawyer, but a call to his local police dept and postal inspector might be a good start. A threat to do so may also help (but doesn't solve the problem in the long run).

I'm certain you'll get much better responses from others.

Andrew

PS: Good luck to your friend.

MsMorrisine · February 23, 2010 11:32AM

call every branch of law enforcement you can think of.

nankraut · February 23, 2010 11:34AM

Well.....I am sort of a pessimistic person; IMHO, your friend's chances of ever getting reimbursed is very remote. Sad...but the problem will be for someone in law enforcement (laws were obviously broken, according to your post) to DO SOMETHING, and follow up. I had a similar situation some years ago, and after 2yrs of phone calls, letters, visits to law enforcement, etc, etc., I gave up. Fortunately for me, it was only several $100.

How can you prevent this in the future? Unless you are very knowledgeable regarding authentication and grading, NEVER buy a raw coin. This is especially true for more valuable pieces.

MsMorrisine · February 23, 2010 11:36AM

close enough to sue them?

Manorcourtman · February 23, 2010 11:41AM

<< close enough to sue them? >>

Minnesota to Ohio * 700 miles)...... They are a real LLC corporation according to the BBB website.

TwoSides2aCoin · February 23, 2010 11:48AM

"Dealer selling counterfeit coins........what would you do?"

buy Gold from the U.S. Mint.

BAJJERFAN · February 23, 2010 11:51AM

<< 

<< close enough to sue them? >>

Minnesota to Ohio * 700 miles)...... They are a real LLC corporation according to the BBB website. >>

LLC = lowlife crooks

lkeigwin · February 23, 2010 12:11PM

I've been down a similar road (bad check my bank led me to believe was good) and got nowhere with the authorities. A few $hundred was involved and I really, really tried. I was ticked. I still have all the records and copies of letters.

My semi-pro football redneck brother-in-law begged for permission to handle the problem for me. It was very tempting. I wrote it off as more tuition.

Unfortunately, I think Neil is right. You'll spend a lot of time and effort and likely get nowhere. I hate to say "move on" but your friend probably should.
Lance.

coinguy1 · February 23, 2010 12:17PM

I think your friend's chances working with the postal inspector are much better than with the BBB. And it wont hurt to try to get help from a local detective, but my expectations for serious cooperation and assistance via that route would be low.

Manorcourtman · February 23, 2010 12:30PM

Noone has any thoughts on the Secret Service? Counterfeit $$ is their game.......... ?????

Bochiman · February 23, 2010 12:33PM

How much for a plane ticket and a hotel room? Go there, get the postal inspector/police to go to their location (verify it is still "manned') with you.

291fifth · February 23, 2010 12:38PM

Try the postal inspectors. They should be interested.

The Secret Service is so strained by extra protection for the President (apparently due to the exceptional number of threats) that they want to pass the counterfeit function on to another agency.

Who knows about the local police.

sinin1 · February 23, 2010 12:41PM

where does this dealer sell and how did your friend find out about buying the coin?

do you know if they are a member of the ANA?

Goldbully · February 23, 2010 12:42PM

The Secret Service is so strained by extra protection for the President

Are Biden and Pelosi part of this extra protection??

Manorcourtman · February 23, 2010 9:35PM

<< where does this dealer sell and how did your friend find out about buying the coin?

do you know if they are a member of the ANA? >>

Sells via his house and I believe local shows. He Found his website/email via Numismatic News dealer directory. His website is gone but via email they worked out a deal. We was a member of the ANA, not now. The guys name is Barry Skog and his partner is Ron Peterson. The company is called Burnsville Coin Co.. There you have it!

edited for spelling

seemyauction · February 23, 2010 9:47PM

I would start with the local, county, and state police departments, I would aslo establish a contact with a postal inspector. The cool thing about the mail fraud if convicted they could get the big 10-10, 10 years in prison and 10K fine PER occurance.

Eddited to add: You can also seek the help of a collection agency, not sure if they would be any real help, but they shure would bug the dog snot out of the crook........

SilverBaron · February 23, 2010 9:50PM

From experience ........

BBB is a totaly worthless joke. Do not waste the dime on a phone call.

Postal Inspector & local police .... usually equally worthless.

Go to the top ...... Secret Service.... Tell them you know a counterfeiter of US money and have some to prove it.

Results will be swift. They do not wait 3 years to build a case.

Geoman · February 23, 2010 10:45PM

Whoa - Burnsville Coin Company? I run a show in MN each fall and they are one of the dealers that take a table each year.

I wonder if I should rethink them taking a table?

Manorcourtman · February 23, 2010 10:56PM

He is calling the Secret Service this morning, the Minnesota office. Will keep you guys updated. These crooks have messed with the wrong people

PTVETTER · February 23, 2010 11:06PM

I think but not sure that this will envolve the federal government in some way, due to the fact it is crossing state lines.

If the facts are correct put out thier name to prevent others from dealing with them.

Put thier name with all the facts on every coin board, and other site you can. This will attention with both sides, law enforcement and the company itself.

make sure the documents are also posted for ALL to see.

Good Luck

coinguy1 · February 23, 2010 11:14PM

<< Whoa - Burnsville Coin Company? I run a show in MN each fall and they are one of the dealers that take a table each year.

I wonder if I should rethink them taking a table?

>>

If I were running a show, I would certainly talk to that dealer, get his side of the story and try to make sure he was not selling counterfeits.

Manorcourtman · February 23, 2010 11:16PM

Here's the BBB link with info on them: Burnsville Coin Co.

Geoman · February 23, 2010 11:20PM

Is there a way to actually read the complaints from the BBB?

waterzooey · February 23, 2010 11:22PM

If you begin posting this information on all the message boards YOU HAD BETTER MAKE SURE YOU ARE CORRECT IN EVERY FACET! ANY Misinformation could land you in some hot water. Make sure all your T's are crossed and your I's dotted!

Stew · February 23, 2010 11:23PM

<< From experience ........

BBB is a totaly worthless joke. Do not waste the dime on a phone call.

Postal Inspector & local police .... usually equally worthless.

Go to the top ...... Secret Service.... Tell them you know a counterfeiter of US money and have some to prove it.

Results will be swift. They do not wait 3 years to build a case. >>

Absolutely right course of action, Always start at the top

It automatically falls under the jurisdiction of the Secret Service
Due to the fact that even though the coins fall into the realm of collectibles. They are still Legal Currency here and they are counterfeiting Legal Currency. You can walk into any store and spend a 1893-S Morgan to buy a pack of gum if you so choose but they are only going to allow you the face value of the coin. That is how we still make all of our roll finds and other discoveries in change. Because even though they are collectible's they are still Legal U.S. Currency and can be traded for goods and services. Which still to this day I do not understand why the Secret Service has not had a full blown investigation into E-bay for aiding in the very obvious and deliberate importing of Counterfeit money.(Counterfeits without the word replica or copy stamped into them) which has become more and more prevalent in recent years.
Stew

Placid · February 23, 2010 11:27PM

I doubt the SS would do much to the person as it would be hard to prove they knew they were selling fakes unless they admit it. Probably just make them give refunds and a warning.

WillieBoyd2 · February 24, 2010 12:02AM

The Secret Service branch which investigates counterfeiting is a separate branch
from the White House branch, so whoever is president has nothing to do with counterfeits.

Dealer selling counterfeit coins........what would you do?

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