1839-O die pairing on half dollar

Lewy · February 12, 2010 1:01AM

I have run into nothing but brick walls in my search for the answer to the question of how many die pairings existed for the 1839-O bust half dollar. Does anyone know the answer?
Of the examples that I have seen, I can only identify one. Hoping that there will be a connoisseur here with more knowledge and experience than my meager understanding of one die pair .

OKbustchaser · February 12, 2010 1:24AM

Reiver when he wrote his atribution manual only cited 2 unique obverse and reverse dies mated for 2 marriages. I don't know whether any additional marriages have been discovered or not.

doh · February 12, 2010 1:46AM

Here's my example and what forum member HalfCollector had to say about the variety:

"Not an easy coin to find in eye appealing condition and you have a JR-2 variety which is not an easy variety to find in any condition. I cannot tell but the cracks look early enough to have the reverse that is rotated almost 180 degrees or as we say almost medallic orientation. Worth hanging on to if you want the date and mm and a tough variety to boot. Does not bring a premium because there a so few people chasing these varieties but if the reverse is rotated, it is neat for that feature."

crypto79 · February 12, 2010 2:22AM

there is a O/O(south) obv die that is more common than the non-O/O. They say that the 39o used the rev die from the proof 38o and that had cracks on it so since there are some rev 39o's without cracks there must be at least 2 of those too.

TomB · February 12, 2010 3:05AM

The Reiver VIM is long out of print and nearly impossible to find, which is something I know firsthand since it took me forever to find my copy, but Heritage has the VIM hosted on its site and you just have to go to any RE half lot to find the link. The Reiver VIM lists six die states for two die marriages.

HalfCollector · February 12, 2010 4:00AM

There are 4 die marriages that I am aware of for the 1839-0 Reeded Edges. The JR-1 is the most common and the others are very rare to extremely rare. They are made from 3 obverse dies and 3 reverse dies.

JR-1- Most common and this variety is seen about 95% of the time. It has the same reverse as the 1838-O and the mint mark is doubled down and to the left. This obverse was used on this variety only.

Jr-2- very rare and the early strikes come with the reverse rotatated about 175% so it looks as if it is in a medalic orientation. The obverse has a repunched mint-mark also but it is down and to the right. The obverse is shared with JR-4 with this being the second use of the obverse. The reverse is shared with JR-3 with this being the first use of the reverse. Obverse shows crack thru stars 2-1- tip of Bust-rim in later state. Reverse was adjusted so the later strikes show no rotation and correct coin orientation.

JR-3- also very rare with no recutting on the mint-mark but has extensive die cracks on obverse of all the specimens that I have seen. Obverse is unique to this variety and revese is shared with JR-2, this being the second use.

JR-4- currently the coin I own is the only one that I have seen in 15 years of hunting but there could be more out there so keep looking. Obverse is shared with JR-2 with mint-mark recut down and to the right and no die cracks so it preceeds JR-2. Reverse is unique to this variety and has a crack from E in AMERICA to tip of eagle right facing wing and is unique to this variety.

We know that JR-4 was produced before JR-2 and that before JR-3 from comparing different examples and comparing die progressions but where does JR-1 fall in here. It would be logical that since it shares the common reverse with the 1838-O, they just changed the obverse die and continued work to produce coins. But as we know they didnot always do the logical in the early mints. So the emission order for 1839 New Orleans Half Dollars is either JR-1-4-2-3 or JR-4-2-3-1.

If any one has any more information or research that might tie these down, I would love to hear from you, so that I could come up with a definitive emission order.

I can add photos of the different MM recutting later if anyone want to see the difference, but I donot have them on this computer and will have to add them tonight when I can get them from my desktop computer.

Hope this helps to answer your question and I can understand your frustration with this series since there is very little that is curently published.

Lewy · February 12, 2010 7:39AM

Thank you all so very much. I don't yet know which mine is, most likely the most common type. It is definitely not the same as yours doh, Mine does not have the mouth fully agape, and my mm takes on a more oblong shape rather than the oval as in yours. (I am now a little concerned as to it's authenticity, as it does not really seem to match any of the descriptions).

My coin is very LDS as it displays cracks fully encircling both obverse and reverse. The reverse contains the most breaks and while there are no actual cuds by definition, the central area (internal of the peripheral cracking) displays large portions of what appear to be metal flow (similar to that over a retained cud).

Difficult to explain and even harder to imagine I am sure. I will have pictures up here in a few days. Hopefully I can take the lazy person's way out and allow you to tell me what it is.
Thanks again everyone.

HalfCollector · February 13, 2010 11:16AM

The following are the 3 known obverses for the New Orleans coins from 1839:

JR-1- Hard to see the recutting but it runs from about 6 o'clock to 9 o'clock and is very slight.

JR-2 & 4- this is more of a repunching than a recutting seen on the JR-1. It shows an old cutting to the right and below the current mint-mark.

JR-3- This mint mark shows no recutting or repunching and is the thinnest of the three. This die has very low relief as seen on the date and mint mark. It most probably was severly lapped and this is why the "O" is not as fat as the other 2 varieties.

They are really quite easy to distinguish from each other once you have seen them in hand. As you can see the position in relation to the 3 digit in the date is different in each case also. Hope this helps with your Brickwall problem.

crypto79 · February 13, 2010 11:20AM

that's so cool, thanks

Southcounty · February 13, 2010 11:43AM

Very nice!

Thank you for posting those pics.

RWB · February 13, 2010 12:59PM

Very good information! Thanks.

claychaser · February 20, 2010 2:03PM

Here's a crusty one that I picked up at the Heritage LB auction. IMHO, I think the 40 grade is a bit of a stretch, but I purchased it for the dirt and crust.

I'm curious as to the attribution:

TomB · February 20, 2010 2:17PM

Your coin looks like a JR-1, which is the same die marriage as mine.

1839-O die pairing on half dollar

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