New Shipping Policy Clarification - PLEASE READ

JoeOrlando · February 20, 2010 4:13AM

Hello Everyone,

There appears to be some confusion about the new shipping methods implemented by PSA and PCGS.

I am writing this to clarify the situation but I would highly suggest reading or re-reading the announcement that appears right on our homepage.

In terms of how shipping functions and the protection each order receives - NOTHING HAS CHANGED.

1) A signature is still required for all packages.

2) Every package is fully insured. Our company has its own policy that covers the packages shipped from our facility. The submitter is protected.

The ONLY meaningful difference to the customer is that the new method will SAVE YOU MONEY - that's it.

If you have any questions about it, even after this post, please call Customer Service on Monday and they will confirm what is already written in the announcement and what I have written in this post.

Take care and I hope this clarifies things,

storm888 · February 20, 2010 4:23AM

Thanks very much!

.....

On this issue:

"2) Every package is fully insured. Our company has its own policy that covers the packages shipped from our facility. The submitter is protected.,"

do you know if an INR-claim can be filed for processing WHEN the SC wrongly shows that the intended recipient signed for the item?

Thanks.

Dboneesq · February 20, 2010 4:29AM

Joe,

Thanks for the clarification.

For those of us that paid for Registered Mail and received our package via Priority, should we call CS for a refund?

Thank You.

JoeOrlando · February 20, 2010 5:09AM

Anyone who is owed a refund will be taken care of automatically but, if you choose to, you can follow up with CS to confirm for peace of mind.

Take care,

SDavid · February 20, 2010 5:23AM

<< Anyone who is owed a refund will be taken care of automatically but, if you choose to, you can follow up with CS to confirm for peace of mind.

Take care, >>

Meaning the submitter gets a refund or meaning Carol calls a guy named Vinnie and the submitter goes for a swim?

Just kidding - I know what you meant.

gameusedhoop · February 20, 2010 5:52AM

Still at issue is the fact that a Signature Confirmation CAN be carrier released, or signed for, registered would never be allowed to be left unattended. In fact Registered is LOCKED in the post office, where priority with Sig Conf are out in the open for anyone to grab.

What happens when a package is left, gets snatched, but shows as delivered?

VintageCardLover · February 20, 2010 5:55AM

storm and gameused bring up to very important points.

gameusedhoop · February 20, 2010 6:05AM

And, you are forced to declare value BEFORE grading. Assuming you don't count on all 10s, I would imagine that many packages are under insured. You have values at grades of 8 and you get one or two 10s that just happen to be low pop commons from highly collected sets your package could be insured for thousands less than actual value.

Scenario on a missing (stolen) package:

PSA: I'm sorry sir, your declared value was $5K
Submitter: But I was only GUESSING values before they were graded, I not a grading professional, you guys are. These two low pops that I was supposed to receive are worth $5K each now that I know that they are 10s. Not to mention the other $4K worth of cards.
PSA: Your declared value was $5K, in the future you should guess better or tell your PO to be more careful or not give regular guys any days off.

Edited to add: The above had almost a zero % chance of happening with registered mail, the carriers know that their job is on the line with that stuff, and it can all be traced to the last person to handle it. Signature Confirmation on the other hand can be grabbed by anyone "in the system" and it won't show up as missing until it has been far too late to tell who had it last and when. Priority mail goes on commercial aircraft and is handled by non-postal employees. It is not under USPS lock and key like Registered is. Even contracted USPS truckers must sign for any locked registered bag on their truck, and it must be signed for when it arrives at a USPS facility. That Sig Conf package spends alot of time in a laundry type bin with no cover etc. Anyone who knows what they are looking for can help themselves.

Remember, these are some of the same people who'll snatch gift cards out of little kid's B'day cards. Rare, but it happens.

bking · February 20, 2010 6:23AM

<< And, you are forced to declare value BEFORE grading. Assuming you don't count on all 10s, I would imagine that many packages are under insured. You have values at grades of 8 and you get one or two 10s that just happen to be low pop commons from highly collected sets your package could be insured for thousands less than actual value.

Scenario on a missing (stolen) package:

PSA: I'm sorry sir, your declared value was $5K
Submitter: But I was only GUESSING values before they were graded, I not a grading professional, you guys are. These two low pops that I was supposed to receive are worth $5K each now that I know that they are 10s. Not to mention the other $4K worth of cards.
PSA: Your declared value was $5K, in the future you should guess better or tell your PO to be more careful or not give regular guys any days off.

Edited to add: The above had almost a zero % chance of happening with registered mail, the carriers know that their job is on the line with that stuff, and it can all be traced to the last person to handle it. Signature Confirmation on the other hand can be grabbed by anyone "in the system" and it won't show up as missing until it has been far too late to tell who had it last and when. Priority mail goes on commercial aircraft and is handled by non-postal employees. It is not under USPS lock and key like Registered is. Even contracted USPS must sign for any locked registered bag on their truck, and it must be signed for when it arrives at a USPS facility. That Sig Conf package spends alot of time in a laundry type bin with no cover etc. Anyone who knows what they are looking for can help themselves.

Remember, these are some of the same people who'll snatch gift cards out of little kid's B'day cards. Rare, but it happens. >>

Aside from the apparently poor rollout, that's my only lingering concern. Granted, the problem of under-insuring "unexpected pops" was always there, but this does seem to increase the likelihood of missing package chaos.

gameusedhoop · February 20, 2010 6:27AM

<< Granted, the problem of under-insuring "unexpected pops" was always there, but this does seem to increase the likelihood of missing package chaos. >>

+1 for "getting it" and being much more succinct than my rambling

bking · February 20, 2010 6:45AM

<< 

<< Granted, the problem of under-insuring "unexpected pops" was always there, but this does seem to increase the likelihood of missing package chaos. >>

+1 for "getting it" and being much more succinct than my rambling >>

You provided the content; I just edited.

mexpo75 · February 20, 2010 6:47AM

Maybe Im a little slow, but I did not see a new postage chart on the home page. if someone knows where it is, please let me know. Thanks.

SDavid · February 20, 2010 6:52AM

Can anyone provide any mail loss reports showing that registered is safer than priority and by how much?

Common sense says it's safer once it reaches the carrier, but mail gets lost before that point and registered mail is in the system longer. Having been through the headache of tracking down a registered package that was overdue by a month without ever being scanned in, I know that the human beings who actually work for the usps do not always follow stated guidelines with registered mail or anything else.

I'd rather just get it back faster and have it in their hands as little as possible. Having a po box helps too.

bking · February 20, 2010 6:56AM

<< Can anyone provide any mail loss reports showing that registered is safer than priority and by how much?

Common sense says it's safer once it reaches the carrier, but mail gets lost before that point and registered mail is in the system longer. Having been through the headache of tracking down a registered package that was overdue by a month without ever being scanned in, I know that the human beings who actually work for the usps do not always follow stated guidelines with registered mail or anything else.

I'd rather just get it back faster and have it in their hands as little as possible. Having a po box helps too. >>

Never mind; I'm done discussing if Registered is safer than Priority. It's like arguing if carry-on is safer than checked bags.

jeffcbay · February 20, 2010 6:59AM

<< Maybe Im a little slow, but I did not see a new postage chart on the home page. if someone knows where it is, please let me know. Thanks. >>

linky

PSA and PSA/DNA Shipping Announcement – New Method and Customer Savings

- February 16, 2010

Effective March 1, 2010, PSA will be implementing a new method of shipping collectibles back to the submitter. For all packages with a value of $100,000 or less, we will begin using USPS Priority or Express Mail vs. the previously used Registered Mail. Priority Mail service will be used for packages valued up to $15,000 and Express Mail will be used for packages valued between $15,000 and $100,000.

Packages valued between $100,000 and $150,000 will continue to use Registered Mail. (For packages over $150k, you must call the PSA Customer Service.)

All packages will be fully insured by PSA. Signatures will continue to be required to receive all packages.

An email will automatically be sent to the recipient when either a Priority or Express Mail package is mailed. This email will contain the USPS tracking number associated with that package. The package can then be tracked using that number on the USPS website - www.usps.com .

Priority Mail packages typically take 2-4 days to arrive anywhere within the US.

Express Mail packages typically take 1-2 days to arrive anywhere within the US.

Most importantly, PSA has lowered the cost of return shipping for any package valued at less than $100k, regardless of the number of cards or collectibles being submitted (see new pricing grid below).

For the next 90 days, if you submit collectibles using an old submission form, we will automatically calculate any refund due you and reimburse you for the difference. We have ordered new forms and expect them to arrive within the next few days. Please be sure to discard your old forms.

SDavid · February 20, 2010 7:03AM

<< 

<< Can anyone provide any mail loss reports showing that registered is safer than priority and by how much?

Common sense says it's safer once it reaches the carrier, but mail gets lost before that point and registered mail is in the system longer. Having been through the headache of tracking down a registered package that was overdue by a month without ever being scanned in, I know that the human beings who actually work for the usps do not always follow stated guidelines with registered mail or anything else.

I'd rather just get it back faster and have it in their hands as little as possible. Having a po box helps too. >>

Never mind; I'm done discussing if Registered is safer than Priority. It's like arguing if carry-on is safer than checked bags. >>

In other words, you don't know. Unless you're carrying that registered yourself, I don't think carry-on is comparable.

SDavid · February 20, 2010 7:07AM

FWIW, SGC uses regular insured mail for many packages and when I used beckett their packages were always sent fed ex (which is probably still available to PSA customers if they really want it).

Their message boards have never been abound with stories of packages getting destroyed or disappearing. People are acting like the risks involved are now a lot higher than they really are.

jeffcbay · February 20, 2010 7:11AM

<< People are acting like the risks involved are now a lot higher than they really are. >>

...because they're drama queens.

CNote · February 20, 2010 7:18AM

FedEx is my choice....

bking · February 20, 2010 7:23AM

<< 

<< People are acting like the risks involved are now a lot higher than they really are. >>

...because they're drama queens. >>

Probably would've helped us be prepared for it if they had actually TOLD us in advance. The first anyone on here knew about it, AFAIK, was when the OP said his showed up Priority without explanation. Probably an oversight on PSA's part to start too soon.

As for the risks, it's all anecdotal evidence on both sides. One or two folks have stories about trouble with registered mail, but a great many have had personal negatives related to Priority and especially signature confirmation. People are always going to be jumpy based on that, especially when this caught them all off-guard. I'm just not a big fan of having change foisted on me, and apparently others aren't much better.

Honestly, I'm not sure why I'm in this debate any more, as my OCD nature will love the improved tracking and speedier delivery, but every time it rains while I;m waiting on a sub to arrive I know I'll be concerned. Also, until PSA weighs in on the signature confirmation worries, I'm not convinced they've even considered that. I guess over the next few months we'll find out if holders are waterproof.

SDavid · February 20, 2010 7:40AM

Bking - To clarify, my original question wasn't rhetorical. I'm not saying priority is safer (I couldn't find any info on mail loss either way), but I think they are both extremely safe, particularly with a po box and sig required. There will always be more horror stories and insurance claims with first class/priority because registered is rarely used. But when I had to call several registry rooms to track down a package, that was an eye opener in terms of how disorganized they can be even with registered mail. Before that, I had a few usps people look it up on their intranet system and tell me that psa really hadn't mailed it before I finally tracked it down.

storm888 · February 20, 2010 7:55AM

I got tired of trying to decipher the info in an old OIG audit on the subject of RM, but it appears that in past years........

For about every 20,000+ pieces of lost FC mail, there is ONE piece of RM lost.

Twenty-years ago, the ratio was about 15,000 to ONE.

RM has gotten safer with time.

All numbers approximate.

........................

I much prefer Priority/Express Mail to RM.

But, I have misgivings about the insurance issues that arise when a SC-ticket shows
a delivery that never actually happened.

The USPS has a system in place - and vast experience using it - to process/investigate/decide
DC/SC vs. INS issues. I don't understand how a private insurer could duplicate that system.

.....

SDavid · February 20, 2010 8:13AM

<< I got tired of trying to decipher the info in an old OIG audit on the subject of RM, but it appears that in past years........

For about every 20,000+ pieces of lost FC mail, there is ONE piece of RM lost.

Twenty-years ago, the ratio was about 15,000 to ONE.

RM has gotten safer with time.

All numbers approximate.

........................

I much prefer Priority/Express Mail to RM.

But, I have misgivings about the insurance issues that arise when a SC-ticket shows
a delivery that never actually happened.

The USPS has a system in place - and vast experience using it - to process/investigate/decide
DC/SC vs. INS issues. I don't understand how a private insurer could duplicate that system.

..... >>

If I'm reading those numbers correctly, you'd also need to know how much mail was sent through those methods to determine the loss ratio. I've been to the post office probably at least 3-4 times for the last several years, and I really can't remember the last time I saw someone other than me send a registered package. Anyway, it doesn't matter.

Regarding SC, I still don't understand why the post office couldn't compare the sig to a customer's cancelled check (or something like that) and then to the carrier's handwriting if the carrier denied doing it. Are you saying they wouldn't make that effort if it wasn't insured on their end? I know I've heard about them changing DC results to support a customer's paypal claim.

Boopotts · February 20, 2010 8:21AM

<< 

<< People are acting like the risks involved are now a lot higher than they really are. >>

...because they're drama queens. >>

The sky was also falling when PSA started grading hand cuts, and when the 1/2 pt. scale was adopted. You would have thought these two developments had put an end to card collecting as we know it judging by this board's response.

The problem we have is that this board (like most of the Internet) is positively starved for substantive content. So, an issue like this comes up and the board's almost relieved to have something to flap about, even if the odds are exceptionally high that however your cards are returned to you will probably never make a bit of difference.

lsutigers1973 · February 20, 2010 8:27AM

This may have been answered already and I just missed it, but what about orders that are already at PSA now but haven't been graded?

My main concern is the group sub. When it was logged in and my credit card was charged, I was charged shipping rates for registered mail. Will I be getting a partial refund for shipping?

Dboneesq · February 20, 2010 8:35AM

<< Anyone who is owed a refund will be taken care of automatically but, if you choose to, you can follow up with CS to confirm for peace of mind.

Take care, >>

Bill ... this was a post by Joe O.

SDavid · February 20, 2010 8:36AM

<< This may have been answered already and I just missed it, but what about orders that are already at PSA now but haven't been graded?

My main concern is the group sub. When it was logged in and my credit card was charged, I was charged shipping rates for registered mail. Will I be getting a partial refund for shipping? >>

If they don't use registered mail, then you'll receive a refund according to the rep I spoke to.

Whether they use registered may depend on when it pops. Friday they sent out orders to several of us through registered mail; it sounds like this change won't be permanent until March 1, but I really don't know what shipping method they'll use for orders that go out next week.

Carew29 · February 20, 2010 8:51AM

<< Still at issue is the fact that a Signature Confirmation CAN be carrier released, or signed for, registered would never be allowed to be left unattended. In fact Registered is LOCKED in the post office, where priority with Sig Conf are out in the open for anyone to grab.

What happens when a package is left, gets snatched, but shows as delivered? >>

Not true-- our apt complex has over 400 units and 99.9% of (all) requiring sig are left at the mgr's office that has a built in mail room for packages. Anyone with that slip could conceivibly retrieve my package. At least my mgr knows who i am.

storm888 · February 20, 2010 8:56AM

"...Are you saying they (USPS) wouldn't make that effort if it wasn't insured on their end?..."

////////////////////////////////

No.

They will "cooperate" with an outside insurance investigation.

They will NOT do the investigation for the private provider.

Aside from the anecdotal report we got today about U-PIC
paying a "faulty-DC claim," I have never heard of a private provider
accepting for processing such a claim, MUCH LESS investigating one.

Further, the U-PIC folks - and doubtless others - deny claims that the
USPS "admits" resulted from employee/contractor theft/fraud. (For
that reason alone, the USPS INS is a superior product.)

.......
....................

Based on personal experience and the reports of others, the large
card-sellers on EBAY cannot submit "faulty DC/SC" claims to their
private insurance carriers. If this circumstance has recently changed,
I am unaware of such a change.

If the DC/SC is 100% dispositive to an insurance claim, the insurance
product is lacking.

.....................

PayPal cannot even solve the problem. The best they can do is issue
"courtesy credits" to buyers who scream loud enough about being
whacked by faulty DC-tickets.

The USPS and PP know that the DC/SC tickets are not perfect. If the
private insurance providers know that too, everything might be OK.

SDavid · February 20, 2010 9:12AM

I was thinking more along the lines of the customer getting the SC status changed before submitting the claim to a private insurance company. Then the private insurance company never knows the difference. I know a few people with the post office; next time I run into one of them I'll ask about whether they'll do that.

There used to be complaints on ebay about buyers getting DC status changed to non-delivery by calling the post office, and then they successfully filed claims with paypal who had no idea the packages were ever marked as delivered. I can only assume these were cases where the packages were clearly scanned as delivered before the carrier left the building, but it's been years since I've read anything on the ebay boards.

packCollector · February 20, 2010 9:12AM

no idea what all the issues are in these posts or the changes in shipping policy by psa but my private insurance covers up to $400 for non-confirmed postal products and 1000 on ups and fedex without delivery confirmation.

storm888 · February 20, 2010 9:19AM

:...but my private insurance covers up to $400 for non-confirmed postal products and 1000 on ups and fedex without delivery confirmation. ..."

///////////////////////////////////

What does the insurance cover, IF the DC says the lost item was "delivered?"

SDavid · February 20, 2010 10:33AM

Joe - The only suggestion I would make is adding a "signature required" sticker to your packages or just anything that will catch the carrier's attention more than a printed label. This is really just for your benefit. It should cut down on the incidents where a carrier delivers a package without getting the proper signature, which leaves you guys open to false claims.

The last claim I filed was (likely) for that very reason. I sent a package with ins/sc, and, as a carrier on this board explained to me, since I didn't use the retail sc sticker the carrier probably didn't realize he needed a sig until he drove off, at which point he had to either drive back and redeliver it or cancel the whole thing. Now I never use signature confirmation with labels I print from the web.

WinPitcher · February 20, 2010 12:06PM

Can someone direct me to the other thread?

Steve

swartz1 · February 20, 2010 12:17PM

<< Can someone direct me to the other thread?

Steve >>

other thread...

EagleEyeKid · February 20, 2010 1:44PM

So I take it there will be a new shipping chart rate up somewhere; cos I haven't found it yet.

Carew29 · February 20, 2010 4:33PM

I don't know, but there is just something to this whole thing that just doesn't add up. I just don't know what it is yet.

mexpo75 · February 21, 2010 1:39AM

Joe's post said there was a new shipping rate chart, but I cannot find it either.

mtcards · February 21, 2010 2:50AM

Since it is already in place, I cannot understand why the OLD shipping chart is still up and Sherlock Holmes couldnt find the new one. I am waiting on how this will SAVE me money before making final judgement. Even though PSA is not eBay, their policy changes were supposed to save me money too and after investigating, it would cost me about 30-40% MORE per month.

Carew29 · February 21, 2010 5:34AM

I am going to do my own research come monday. I am taking the 10 cards just sent to me by PSA in the same two boxes it came in-- via reg mail/ins for the amount i gave them to see if it comes out to $23.75. I think a can of worms just got opened.

storm888 · February 21, 2010 6:09AM

"...I think a can of worms just got opened...."

////////////////////////////////////

I cannot find any "can of worms."

PSA charges a handling fee in connection with shipping orders; so do most other companies.

U.S. POSTAGE, INSURANCE & HANDLING RATE CHART

The numbers are all disclosed before the order is submitted.

nam812 · February 23, 2010 1:33PM

Excerpt from the OP.

<< .......The ONLY meaningful difference to the customer is that the new method will SAVE YOU MONEY - that's it........... >>

I have seen in another thread where some members have started to put submissions together using PSA's new shipping fees, and the above statement from Joe Orlando is not accurate.

New Shipping Policy Clarification - PLEASE READ

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