Need ID / confirmation on some Brits please

Lewy · February 19, 2010 11:29AM

Hi everyone, hoping to get a little help with some of my UK coins:

Lady Godiva? and an elephant / lion?

wybrit · February 19, 2010 11:38AM

This is a conder token. Farthing (one of the members here) can probably get you the specifics on the catalogue number, etc.

farthing · February 19, 2010 12:44PM

Wybrit is correct - this is a Conder token (as an aside, I'll probably have more luck converting Wybrit to a conder token collector then I will in getting him to cheer for Arsenal!)

The token is catalogued by D&H as Warwickshire Coventry #244. The diesinker was William Manwaring, the manufacturer William Lutwyche. The token was made for Robert Reynolds & Co., ribbon weavers in Coventry.

There are 3 edge varieties to this particular token:
244 - PAYABLE IN BEDWORTH HINKLEY OR NUNEATON (common)
244a - PAYABLE IN LONDON OR ANGLESEY (scarce)
244b - Plain (not struck in a collar (RRR)

There were tons of Lady Godiva tokens minted dated 1792-1795, and are one of the more common and most popular tokens in the series.

I should note that the reverse is from the Coat of Arms of the city of Coventry.

Many have noted that the elephant on the token is the head of an elephant on the body of a hippo and the feet of a lion.

Lewy · February 19, 2010 1:38PM

Thanks very much to both of you. I thought that the animal looked rather odd.

Lewy · February 20, 2010 7:03AM

Here are a couple of other UK coins, the first one is 30mm and the second one is 25 mm:

ProofArtworkonCircs · February 20, 2010 3:13PM

IN Lady Godiva's time, it was not possible to ride sidesaddle and control the horse.

FilthyBroke · February 20, 2010 10:38PM

<< Here are a couple of other UK coins, the first one is 30mm and the second one is 25 mm:

>>

The first one would be an Elizabeth I silver shilling.

The second looks to be Mary, a groat maybe?

I'd wait for a more definitive attribution from the experts though, I just did a quick search in my spink book.

Lewy · February 20, 2010 11:00PM

Thanks much FilthyBroke. Here are a couple more, the first I think is a crown as it is big at 38mm, but I am really not sure that the second is even authentic because the horse / rider seem to be facing in the opposite direction of a couple of other coins that I have seen. It's diameter is 36mm.

FilthyBroke · February 21, 2010 12:49AM

<< Thanks much FilthyBroke. Here are a couple more, the first I think is a crown as it is big at 38mm, but I am really not sure that the second is even authentic because the horse / rider seem to be facing in the opposite direction of a couple of other coins that I have seen. It's diameter is 36mm.

>>

This one is a James I halfcrown, Spink #2666 I think....they should measure somewhere between 33-46mm. As for authenticity, I don't see anything peculiar except maybe the odd bumps in the "HIB" area.

Lewy · February 21, 2010 1:49AM

Thanks once again Filthybroke. I looked up the spink 2666 online, and it is definitely not that. Mine has got to be a counterfeit or else something not listed with spink. The wording on the obverse is different.....mine says "britfran & hib".....the 2666 says "britfra : ethib" .

On the reverse, the harp is different I believe, as are the decorations on the outside of the shield.

Oh well, that is the way it goes sometimes. I do think that the rest of the coins may be authentic though as I have seen similar pieces online.

Thanks for all of your help!

JamesMurray · February 21, 2010 2:29AM

Its supposed to say Brit Fran , its James l of Britain (James Vl of Scotland) , the only thing i find unusual is such specialist quality coins and no apparant knowledge of them ?

Lewy · February 21, 2010 5:27AM

<< Its supposed to say Brit Fran , its James l of Britain (James Vl of Scotland) , the only thing i find unusual is such specialist quality coins and no apparant knowledge of them ? >>

People do come into possession of things that they know absolutely nothing of. Not everyone is buried with their coin collections.

Filthy Broke, here is spink 2666 that I downloaded from the web. Do you see the difference in the wordings on the obverse? I am just trying to determine if mine is authentic or not, and I really do appreciate your help.

FilthyBroke · February 21, 2010 5:54AM

<<

<< Its supposed to say Brit Fran , its James l of Britain (James Vl of Scotland) , the only thing i find unusual is such specialist quality coins and no apparant knowledge of them ? >>

People do come into possession of things that they know absolutely nothing of. Not everyone is buried with their coin collections.

Filthy Broke, here is spink 2666 that I downloaded from the web. Do you see the difference in the wordings on the obverse? I am just trying to determine if mine is authentic or not, and I really do appreciate your help. >>

Check Here, it's an interesting site that will give you some help with info on hammered coinage. There are several different variations of lettering used on most coins. The Spink book doesn't go into specifics, but as to size and design, it looks to me like it matches up.

Added - There are others here that can give you more specifics, I'd wait for more definite info from the experts.

FilthyBroke · February 21, 2010 6:05AM

You could send a private message to BS or SwK, among others they would probably be able to answer definitively your authenticity questions.

Lewy · February 21, 2010 6:10AM

Thanks very much for all of your help. Interesting link. I think that it is the absence of the word "ET" that is causing me the most trouble. I'll sit back and hope that (like you say) an expert in these things will tune in.

Lewy · February 21, 2010 2:43PM

I really hate to beat a dead horse with this horse & rider coin, but something that James mentioned earlier; [its James l of Britain (James Vl of Scotland)] may put me on to something. I had been told before that it is not an English coin, but a Scottish coin. I believed this for a while, until I looked at other English coins with the same obverse. I could find no Scottish coins with this obverse or reverse, so I disregarded the notion of it being Scottish, but maybe I should revisit the possibility rather than discard the coin as a counterfeit, since the two of you see nothing to point in that direction. Thank you both.

JamesMurray · February 21, 2010 5:49PM

What you have is a coin of James Vl , the reason you see a rider facing the other way on other coins is it is Charles on those.Your coin looks 100% bonifide to me.
Im only staggered as its a fine collection of ancients , its not often one sees a coin of Mary , never mind in such fine condition.

Edited to add , i think your coin having the thistle mintmark signifies 1604.

Lewy · February 22, 2010 1:49AM

Thanks very much FilthyBroke, James (and especially Brett for the link). It is a Scottish 30 shillings.

Need ID / confirmation on some Brits please

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