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Who's the Best Hockey Player Ever?
shagrotn77
Posts: 5,625 ✭✭✭✭
Just talking skaters here, no goalies. No comments necessary. Just votes.
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2. Wayne
3. Mario
I wouldn't put Gordie at number 4 though. in the top ten for sure but closer to 10.
but hey... that's just me.
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2. Mario Lemieux
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
Tabe
If you took Richard, Orr, or Howe right out of a vintage game and threw them in today's game they'd have a very rude awakening. It's hard to say that given the same training and tools that today's players have, how they would do. They may be a first liner or a fourth liner. Maybe in the AHL. We'll never know.
But given the choices, although he is not a personal favourite, I would choose Lemieux. I heard that he didn't actually like the game that much but was so good at it that he had to keep going. I expect that Ovechkin is pretty high up there too.
I'd have to throw in Morenz, Richard and Orr for their eras.
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No one handled the puck like him and no one played defense like him.
I love Gretzky but he wouldn't have the career he had playing in the 50's and 60's. Orr never had protection like Wayne and his body was destroyed because of it. Wayne would have had a very short career if he played in the 50's and 60's.
Orr was better than everyone else and he did it on bad knees.
I would suggest that people actually watch footage of Orr because some people don't know anything about hockey other than Gretzky and Lemieux. I'm sure youtube has footage.
This debate has been around for a long time but hardcore fans that watched both know Orr is the best.
I will have to go with Gretz and Mario. Nobody even comes close to their statistics. And they consistenly put up those numbers year in and year out. The "dream" or best seasons for so many other great players don't even come close. So these two guys were just miles ahead of the pack. I think Mario was a little more skilled, and his size advantage made him a more dominant player.
At least Coffey came close to Orr statistically.
With that said, Tomi is right about Orr with his playing in an era of very physical hockey. Wayne Gretzky is universally accepted as the greatest player to ever have played the game, but when you look at Mike Bossy's statistics and compare them side-by-side with Gretzky, you will see that if Bossy had had a normal length career the guy would have 1000+ NHL goals.
And then there are the players who never played in the NHL, meaning mostly the Soviets. Aleksandr Maltsev and Boris Mikhailov, along with their goalie Vladisav Tretiak, are arguably some of the greatest players to ever play the game of hockey.
Patrick
Orr defensively and offensively bringing the puck up and setting up plays...
Donato
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<< <i>Gretzky in scoring...
Orr defensively and offensively bringing the puck up and setting up plays...
Donato >>
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When getting your body hacked by the heavy sticks of the day with lesser protection he did amazing things on the ice. Nothing slowed him down..except his knees
and he won a Stanley Cup with the Bruins.
I know it's going to be tough!
Again, the greatest hockey player is the greatest ALL AROUND player, not the one dimensional player.
Orr had a plus-minus of +124 one year. Even Gretzky couldn't touch that.
In 20 years Gretzky's (+/-) total was +518.
In 12 injury plagued years (only 9 full years) Orr's (+/-) total was +597. That's dominance. NOT EVEN CLOSE.
Besides the Stanley Cup, captured the Norris Trophy, Art Ross Trophy, Hart Trophy, and Conn Smythe Trophy in 1970, the first player in history to win four major NHL awards in one season.
Don't forget, Orr played his whole career on bad knees.
and i hate hockey.
Eyebone
End of discussion.
<< <i>I think you almost need to break this up into eras. I'm sure a lot of today's NHLers could skate circles around the HOFers. It's amazing what the players can do today and the conditioning they have. Watch some of the classic games on NHL Network. Almost looks like a high school game from today. I'm sure the same can be said about other sports as well.
If you took Richard, Orr, or Howe right out of a vintage game and threw them in today's game they'd have a very rude awakening. It's hard to say that given the same training and tools that today's players have, how they would do. They may be a first liner or a fourth liner. >>
It's impossible to compare eras fairly. You put top players of today out on the ice with equipment like Orr and Howe used they wouldn't be able to move. All the advances in equipment technology in the past 15 years has changed the game greatly.
<< <i>Bobby Orr is the greatest hockey player that ever played the game. He changed the way the game is played by introducing the rushing defense. Wayne was the greatest OFFENSIVE player but Orr was the greatest ALL AROUND player ever. He won offensive awards playing as a defenseman. 5 Orr's could beat 5 of the best players. He did it all.
No one handled the puck like him and no one played defense like him.
I love Gretzky but he wouldn't have the career he had playing in the 50's and 60's. Orr never had protection like Wayne and his body was destroyed because of it. Wayne would have had a very short career if he played in the 50's and 60's.
Orr was better than everyone else and he did it on bad knees.
I would suggest that people actually watch footage of Orr because some people don't know anything about hockey other than Gretzky and Lemieux. I'm sure youtube has footage.
This debate has been around for a long time but hardcore fans that watched both know Orr is the best. >>
Well said, Tomi. Orr was the best defenseman in his day who just happened to be among the best offensive players, too. He was a one-man gang who could beat you in so many ways. He could handle the rough stuff, too. Orr remains one of the few "heros" (along with Wilt Chamberlain and Joe Frazier) from my childhood.
True fan of the game!
<< <i>You just described Mr Hockey. But you forgot to mention his fighting skills! And the hat trick named after him! >>
Ironically, Gordie only had something like 2 or 3 - if that - "Gordie Howe Hat Tricks" during his career.
This thread is the first time I've ever heard anybody say Bobby Orr was a great defensive player. I've read a lot of stuff about him and they all boiled down to the same things - "he was a great offensive player", "he was a great skater", "he changed the way the game was played". NONE ever mentioned him as a great defensive player. Not saying he wasn't - I don't know - just that I've never heard it mentioned before.
Tabe
BUT HE CAME BACK!
Gordie is still #1, especially when you have your own "hat-trick" named after you.
One of the reasons Matthew Barnaby is still one of my favorite players.
(the man had courage, and would fight ANYONE! to better his teams chances)
Collecting: Topps 1952-79, Bowman 1952-55, OPC 1965-71, and Pre-War White Sox cards
<< <i>I can't believe that Mr. Hockey isn't getting his props here...that's who I'd vote for. >>
Ya, since when is an elbow to the head not worth greatest ever mention?
Collecting: Topps 1952-79, Bowman 1952-55, OPC 1965-71, and Pre-War White Sox cards
<< <i>It's not a good idea to get Gordie mad at ya... >>
Oh yaaaa.... looks like he got fryin panned by his ol lady.
Yehaaa I'm an Orr fan...
blah blah
He won 8 Norris trophys as the NHL's best defenseman.
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If you've seen them play live, you'll have a much better understanding of what I'm saying.
I saw Bobby Orr play for almost his entire career.
Orr could do everything and he did everything at full speed and he did everything at a higher level than anyone else of his day.
He was the fastest skater, not to mention had amazing moves on the ice, he could stickhandle better than anyone else, he had one of the best shots and one of the quickest if not quickest releases from the point.
He could throw a great hip check and didn't back off from being checked and checking in the corner and on the sideboards.
He was as much a threat to score whne he was killing penalties as he was leading the power play.
The end-to-end rushes were amazing. In a day when your best player had a target on them and not a stop sign on them, Orr dominated.
And he did the little things...how many superstar defensemen do you see aggressively block shot after shot as fearlessly as Orr did.
He never let up on either end. He was always going at full speed and that is why his career was cut short.
No one ever played or dominated the game on both ends the way Orr did.
I saw Lemieux and Gretzky and they were great, amazing players. I just think Orr did EVERYTHING. Offense is only one part of the game. It is a physical game. There is a defensive side to the game.
Take a look at plus/minus numbers. Who dominated and how much did they dominate when they were on the ice.
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BOBBY ORR
THE BEST THERE WAS!
THE BEST THERE EVER WILL BE!
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I enjoyed your recollections of Orr. I like reading such posts not because they agree with me, but because it's nice to know that players of the past are not entirely forgotten. It saddens me to see how quickly past legends in any major sport are quickly brushed aside by modern fans and writers. I understand how today's 30-somethings can claim that Gretzky was the best, just as people in my age group can overlook players like Richard and Howe.
Getting back to Orr...I've always found it remarkable how a man could absolutely dominate in all facets of the game. You described his talents beautifully.