Well PCGS body bagged my 1956 PL Cent.....

canadacolornut · January 6, 2010 7:17AM

I did a bit better with this submission-two PL 67's and 2 PL 66's out of 9 submissions. That used to be fairly
common for me a few years ago; but not any more with the tightened grading standards.

But the HUGE disappointment was that they body bagged a 1956 PL Cent that I needed very badly for my
grand kids registry set.

Now I've got to send it back in with a long letter explaining that I pulled it DIRECTLY from a 1956 PL set,
in cardboard, original and pristine.

WWW has one very close to it; a little better really, but it was graded PL 66 RB I believe, not returned
with a "Questionable Color" tag.

Hoping Bill will post his again I invite forum members to look them over and tell me if they see any substantial
difference in the toning patterns and colors on the two coins.

In fact I'd appreciate it very much since I have to build my case with the graders.

Look, I wouldn't want their job-trying to separate natural toning from artificial-because I do understand how
difficult that can be sometimes.

But honestly, this coin is a laydown PL 65 and a solid case for PL 66 so it's very disheartening when you
know, absolutely and without a doubt, from nearly 30 years of collecting Canadian PL coins, that the color
has transferred over the years from sulphur content of the cardboard holder and not some chemical doctor's toning tray.

If Bill does post it, I'd appreciate your opinion on any differences, or lack of them. I won't use your comments
with the graders of course but I guess I'd appreciate a little reinforcement since it's a major setback and
I bought the set from a reliable dealer, with the mint sealed wrapper, not some replacement cellopane substitute,
still on it-and there's no doubt whatsoevera bout the origin of color.

Thanks much for any comments....

WWW · January 6, 2010 7:44AM

I do not understand the questionable color assignment by PCGS for this PL cent. It looks like the real thing to me. I'm sorry it got bagged. Here is my 1956 PL66RB cent:

canadacolornut · January 6, 2010 7:59AM

Thanks Bill.

Your coin is much more attractive (wanna sell it

) but at least they graded it.

That's all I was expecting.

By comparision I would have been OK with a PL 65 BRN, but as it is.....

Thanks for posting it.

Best regards.....

ASUtodd · January 6, 2010 8:16AM

When you say you pulled it from a PR like set..... which type of packaging was it in?

canadacolornut · January 6, 2010 8:25AM

Card board holder with Royal Canadian Mint stamped on it, stiff, cracked yellowed cellophone as I've handled and shuffled through hundreds of over the years.

I do know where you're going with the question and I'm sensitive to put together sets with phony holders and modern day Glad wrap as well.

But this one was genuine. And the color pattern on the penny was entirely consistent with dozens that I've examined, at auctions
and in dealer showcases, over the years.

Good question though...

Hussulo · January 6, 2010 8:29AM

You could try re-sending it but I don't know if an accompanying letter will help. I was under the impression that the coins just went to the graders as is without any info or provenance etc. This is to keep them anonymous and the coins are judged "naked". I was also under the impression that if you send a slab in for re-grade or one from a non PCGS company they cover up the assigned grade so as not too influence the new grade in any way.

ASUtodd · January 6, 2010 9:10AM

To some collectors, just about every set from the Canadian mint is a "prooflike" set.... just seeing what it was in..... that's where I was going....

1960NYGiants · January 6, 2010 11:49AM

CCN - I agree with you. That coin is NT 100%. I, too, have seen many older original sets from the mid 50s to 62 that have cents with that purple periphery color. It's from the cardboard holder. I'd bet the silver pieces from that set had midnight blue black edge toning.

I'm bringing a piece with me, 1952 High Relief 25c, to NYINC to show to either Ron G or Don W when they are at the PCGS booth to explain what the supposed damage is on the coin. It looks MS64 ish with no marks at 10x and has that midnight toning aroung the rim. I'll try to post pix later tonight.

My scans make it look AU58/MS62 but the lustre is all there. The toning came out a bit darker with some red removed making the purple appear as black. The coin has lots of die polish lines. The marks are not as vivid as shown and definately not cause enough for a code 98.

jfoot13 · January 6, 2010 3:12PM

That is one pretty coin... I feel your fustration

StubbyMcNumbthumbs · January 6, 2010 7:48PM

I can see wanting to keep their standards high, thus remaining the top dog in the business, but stuff like this instantly causes me (and evidently many others) to question their service. The only service they provided here was to relieve you of some "coin" - you paid for an opinion and got a

First of all, as many here have said before, QC is about as lame as it gets. Either call it good and grade it or call it AT. It would also be good to explain somewhere exactly what's wrong with a coin returned with some supposed "damage".

As far as I'm concerned, that coin is 100% NT and original - and a BEAUTY!

Just my 2pence worth of opinion.

canadacolornut · January 6, 2010 8:20PM

Thanks Stubby. I agree with just about everything you said in your post.

I don't enjoy being critical of PCGS since the people I deal with are always helpful and supportive.

But I really think they need to build a data base of coins that are assuredly naturally toned rather
than equivocate when they're not sure.

I had one coin body bagged that I sent back with some good examples of others with the same
kind of toning that had received a grade.

Apparently they listened and made a judgment to grade it.

Now I only have to hassle them about the grade instead of the toning at least

OchoReales · January 6, 2010 10:36PM

I like it. Looks NT to me. I say, try it again (as much as it hurts to have to double dip on grading fees). If they bodybag it again, I would protest.

coinpictures · January 7, 2010 12:08AM

It's stories like this that keep me from sending in many of the 1972-73 Canadian silver dollars I have. I have a boatload already in PCGS holders, but I cannot trust that PCGS won't have a sudden attack of "clamping down on AT" and I'll find myself with the privilege of being out hundreds of dollars. This is especially a concern given how wiildly those coins tone.

I'm sorry, but I just don't trust PCGS when it comes to their expertise with world coins.

tacynnep · January 7, 2010 3:01AM

The cardboard for the 1956PL set shouldn't have Royal Canadian Mint printed on it that only happen on 1960 PL sets.

canadacolornut · January 7, 2010 3:03AM

You may be right about that since I took the coins out a good while ago.

But I'm pretty sure the mint imprint was on more than one PL set. I'll check.

Thanks

Reveries · January 7, 2010 5:13PM

Another issue is that PCGS calls something questionable color without assigning a grade. This is
stupid and shortsighted. I still have to pay them for the grade and they get off with not giving me a
grade because THEY THINK they know what toning should be on a coin. This needs to stop and they need to change
this really dumb practice. They have many illogical perverse rules that even the higher ups comment on being ludicrous.
If we don't complain they will continue on with this perverse practice. The graders at PCGS who grade Canadian coins
do NOT get toning on Canadian coins period! They are even worse with Newfoundland coins.
Any coin that has any color what so ever is rejected as Genuine (again no grade) or questionable color.
I do not even bother any more because it is a COMPLETE
waste of time and money. Only send shiny bright white NewFoundland coins to PCGS.
I will post a few recent coins with the infamous questionable color to offer as proof!

I hope somebody is reading these posts from PCGS! I am getting really frustrated with their lack of knowledge!

Reveries · January 7, 2010 5:16PM

Only PL sets from 1960 had the Royal Canadian Mint imprint on the holder - which consisted of two differing versions.

Reveries · January 7, 2010 5:18PM

Your 1956 PL cent is as authentic as Bills. They are simply idiots - perhaps even worse inconsistent idiots.

SwK · January 7, 2010 5:58PM

Hi

When u submit a coin for grading how do u get MS 67 , MS 68, MS 69 or 70? what are the differences?

BR

canadacolornut · January 7, 2010 9:55PM

PCGS and the other third party grading houses here in the U.S. uses the Sheldon numerical grading scale to assign a coin grade.

The scale starts with 1 of course, and goes all the way to 70-which is perfection and seldom found in any coin other than modern proofs.

MS 65 is consider "gem" status. Every point above that grade adds considerable value to the coin and just 1 point below it (MS64) results
in coins that some of the best bargains available-just a minor tic or two, often contested as you might imagine-that most collectors
can't even discern, certainly without magnification.

But that is where the U,S. coin market is and I doubt it will ever change much. For example you might check the PCGS coin values
pages to see how those one or two points affect the value of the coin.

The British use a 100 point scale? Where would FDC fit on that scale? BU and UNC? Just curious...

Hussulo · January 7, 2010 11:45PM

There is only one British slabbing company (CGS) and they use 100 point scale.

Your main British coin grading tiers are:
FINE
VERY FINE
EXTREMELY FINE
UNCIRCULATED

As well as the main grades some coins can be graded even more subjectively and may
not fall into the one of the main grading tiers as displayed above.
Below we have three examples of a William III first issue shilling.
Graded from left to right:
VF+ (Good Very Fine), aEF (Almost Extremely Fine) and EF+ (Good Extremely Fine)

You will sometimes hear a coin being given a grade of "GOOD", "FAIR" or
"POOR", these grades are below FINE with most coin collectors only
collecting coins which are fine or above. Anything below fine and the detail
is really quite worn.

BU - BRILLIANT UNCIRCULATED: a coin that as well as being uncirculated
still maintains much of its original mint lustre (colour).

FDC or FLEUR DE COIN: is French and is usually only used when
describing a proof or pattern coin. It means a perfect coin, one that is in a
condition as if it had just left the mint. One of the best examples.

Well PCGS body bagged my 1956 PL Cent.....

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