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Depressing day at the local coin show..............
DBSTrader2
Posts: 3,498 ✭✭✭✭
I came home from today's local coin show saddened & wondering what the future holds for YN's who want to get into the hobby like I did long ago..............
I had brought with me a boxful of items to donate to the "YN" Coin & Stamp table outside the room where the show was held. It was my chance to "pay it forward" for all the help I've received on this Forum". An elderly gentleman (must have been in his 70's or 80's) thanked me a lot & said "its' people like you who keep this hobby going."
I was glad to help, and even happier when, on my way out, I saw 2 youngsters awed by the collection of used folders & pennies, nickels, shredded money, etc available for them to take & start on their collections.
But I was also somewhat saddened by what I saw inside the show.
I guess first it helps if I give everyone my background.............. I started out in the mid-60's collecting Lincoln pennies from circulation in blue Whitman folders when I visited my grandparents in Philadelphia. They'd even walk with me the many blocks to the coin counter at the Woolworth's downtown, or later to the smelters' storefronts to sift thru coffee cans full of "melt" silver dimes & quarters.
I was too young to appreciate what was happening in 1965 with the advent of clad coinage, so I never really spent any money back then fully filling my folders with dies and quarters at "bargain" prices. Instead, I only bought (at something like 3 to 4 times face) only as much as I could afford from my birthday money, etc.
So I never branched out into Barbers or older, or into halves, dollars, etc. I was pretty much a pennies-thru-quarters guy from circulation and meager spending money.
But to me, the history, and, more importantly, the time spent bonding over the collection with my grandparents (who, I am sure, indulged me and otherwise couldn't care for the hobby) was what mattered.
Over time, I added more and more blue Whitman folders to the collection, from IHC's to 2-cent pieces, to V- & Buffalo nickels, Mercury dimes, Washington quarters (and one lone SLQ), and eventually up to Walkers, Franklins, JFK's, Peace & Morgan dollars & beyond, as well as Canadian cents thru Twoonies, British, Australian, Mexican, & New Zealand coins, as well as a "1-per-Country" and Euro sets....................... But I pretty much stayed true to my collecting philosophy of just filling holes vs trying to amass any valuable legacy or dabble in slabs, bullion, high-grade or registry sets, etc..... I enjoyed the coins as a hobby where I could always be on the lookout & buy or trade for a missing coin, while enjoying a connection to my youth.
As a retail store manager in my mid-20's, I was also able to keep my hands in the cashier's tray for a while & pull silver, buffaloes, wheaties, silver certificates, etc from circulation for a while, too.
I then had the great fortune to connect with and become friends with many fellow Forum members while pulling strike duty about a decade ago with the advent of the Internet (THANKS, Mr. Gore!
). After sitting relatively idle for a while, my collection and collecting enjoyed a rebirth at that point. I not only was able to fill some more holes thru trades & purchases (as well as help others fill their own holes as well), but that was when my collection really expanded to the aforementioned "Darkside" countries.
But, other than expanding into more directions as I find new Whitman blue folders or the like to try and fill, I find my collecting has once again somewhat stagnated. Now, almost all the remaining holes represent rare or relatively expensive coins/dates that I realistically know I will never be able to fill. My time is mostly spent keeping current with new releases, which makes 2009 a really annoying year to be a collector of my style. I am STILL waiting to get some missing 09 nickels & dimes, and it's like pulling teeth to get the Territory quarters.........
So I now hit the monthly coin show every now & then trying to get a missing coin or maybe roll of state quarters (I started collecting 1 of each for each son at the start, but missed out on a few from 2000 and a few from the territories). But what I see mostly at the show are slabbed or high-end silver & gold, etc, and VERY LITTLE of the "junk box" or Wooworths'-style selection available to me as a kid.
Which is why I usually come home from the shows feeling like a VERY little fish in a BIG pond! I figure that all my coins in my collection would be valued at less than just a handful of the coins at any of the tables at the show........
And I can live with that. While I regret not comprehending what the removal of silver from circulation would do to my chances of ever filling my silver folders, and my failure to get into Peace and Morgans (and Walkers) before it was too late, I know I was never in it for the money, so I'm ok. I'm just jealous of all those who have and can afford such beautiful coins/collections....... But I know my priority and legacy is in raising a wonderful family and seeing them thru college and ourselves thru retirement, and coins will always be a secondary, although welcome, diversion.......
But, to get back on topic, what saddens me is what I see as "missing" for youngsters joining the hobby today...... They won't have the opportunity to pull silver & wheaties, etc from circulation or get them at "reasonable" prices like I could at the time. While they have the Internet, etc to bring them closer with other collectors, buyers, & sellers which I did not, they will also not have as many small "mom-and-pop" B&M's to visit and sift thru junk boxes at. It just seems that, at 10-12x face, these kids will be priced out of the lower-end collecting process I grew to love.
That's not to say they can't still become investors or collectors anyway - - just that it doesn't seem to me like it will feel the same.....
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe today's Lincoln Memorials & new reverses are the Wheaties of my day, etc. Maybe kids will continue to start from change wherever they are at & then "work back" to the silver, etc of the past as they can afford it, or become experts/afficionados of clad, varieties, etc.............who knows?
Am I being too nostalgic? Or has the hobby/industry really changed so much in the last 20 or 30 years? What do you think?
Maybe I'll head over to the next show with a partially-filled Whitman blue Lincoln Pennies #1 (1909-1939) or #2 (1940-1958) folder to donate to the YN Table to cheer me up..................
I had brought with me a boxful of items to donate to the "YN" Coin & Stamp table outside the room where the show was held. It was my chance to "pay it forward" for all the help I've received on this Forum". An elderly gentleman (must have been in his 70's or 80's) thanked me a lot & said "its' people like you who keep this hobby going."
I was glad to help, and even happier when, on my way out, I saw 2 youngsters awed by the collection of used folders & pennies, nickels, shredded money, etc available for them to take & start on their collections.
But I was also somewhat saddened by what I saw inside the show.
I guess first it helps if I give everyone my background.............. I started out in the mid-60's collecting Lincoln pennies from circulation in blue Whitman folders when I visited my grandparents in Philadelphia. They'd even walk with me the many blocks to the coin counter at the Woolworth's downtown, or later to the smelters' storefronts to sift thru coffee cans full of "melt" silver dimes & quarters.
I was too young to appreciate what was happening in 1965 with the advent of clad coinage, so I never really spent any money back then fully filling my folders with dies and quarters at "bargain" prices. Instead, I only bought (at something like 3 to 4 times face) only as much as I could afford from my birthday money, etc.
So I never branched out into Barbers or older, or into halves, dollars, etc. I was pretty much a pennies-thru-quarters guy from circulation and meager spending money.
But to me, the history, and, more importantly, the time spent bonding over the collection with my grandparents (who, I am sure, indulged me and otherwise couldn't care for the hobby) was what mattered.
Over time, I added more and more blue Whitman folders to the collection, from IHC's to 2-cent pieces, to V- & Buffalo nickels, Mercury dimes, Washington quarters (and one lone SLQ), and eventually up to Walkers, Franklins, JFK's, Peace & Morgan dollars & beyond, as well as Canadian cents thru Twoonies, British, Australian, Mexican, & New Zealand coins, as well as a "1-per-Country" and Euro sets....................... But I pretty much stayed true to my collecting philosophy of just filling holes vs trying to amass any valuable legacy or dabble in slabs, bullion, high-grade or registry sets, etc..... I enjoyed the coins as a hobby where I could always be on the lookout & buy or trade for a missing coin, while enjoying a connection to my youth.
As a retail store manager in my mid-20's, I was also able to keep my hands in the cashier's tray for a while & pull silver, buffaloes, wheaties, silver certificates, etc from circulation for a while, too.
I then had the great fortune to connect with and become friends with many fellow Forum members while pulling strike duty about a decade ago with the advent of the Internet (THANKS, Mr. Gore!
). After sitting relatively idle for a while, my collection and collecting enjoyed a rebirth at that point. I not only was able to fill some more holes thru trades & purchases (as well as help others fill their own holes as well), but that was when my collection really expanded to the aforementioned "Darkside" countries.But, other than expanding into more directions as I find new Whitman blue folders or the like to try and fill, I find my collecting has once again somewhat stagnated. Now, almost all the remaining holes represent rare or relatively expensive coins/dates that I realistically know I will never be able to fill. My time is mostly spent keeping current with new releases, which makes 2009 a really annoying year to be a collector of my style. I am STILL waiting to get some missing 09 nickels & dimes, and it's like pulling teeth to get the Territory quarters.........
So I now hit the monthly coin show every now & then trying to get a missing coin or maybe roll of state quarters (I started collecting 1 of each for each son at the start, but missed out on a few from 2000 and a few from the territories). But what I see mostly at the show are slabbed or high-end silver & gold, etc, and VERY LITTLE of the "junk box" or Wooworths'-style selection available to me as a kid.
Which is why I usually come home from the shows feeling like a VERY little fish in a BIG pond! I figure that all my coins in my collection would be valued at less than just a handful of the coins at any of the tables at the show........
And I can live with that. While I regret not comprehending what the removal of silver from circulation would do to my chances of ever filling my silver folders, and my failure to get into Peace and Morgans (and Walkers) before it was too late, I know I was never in it for the money, so I'm ok. I'm just jealous of all those who have and can afford such beautiful coins/collections....... But I know my priority and legacy is in raising a wonderful family and seeing them thru college and ourselves thru retirement, and coins will always be a secondary, although welcome, diversion.......
But, to get back on topic, what saddens me is what I see as "missing" for youngsters joining the hobby today...... They won't have the opportunity to pull silver & wheaties, etc from circulation or get them at "reasonable" prices like I could at the time. While they have the Internet, etc to bring them closer with other collectors, buyers, & sellers which I did not, they will also not have as many small "mom-and-pop" B&M's to visit and sift thru junk boxes at. It just seems that, at 10-12x face, these kids will be priced out of the lower-end collecting process I grew to love.
That's not to say they can't still become investors or collectors anyway - - just that it doesn't seem to me like it will feel the same.....
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe today's Lincoln Memorials & new reverses are the Wheaties of my day, etc. Maybe kids will continue to start from change wherever they are at & then "work back" to the silver, etc of the past as they can afford it, or become experts/afficionados of clad, varieties, etc.............who knows?
Am I being too nostalgic? Or has the hobby/industry really changed so much in the last 20 or 30 years? What do you think?
Maybe I'll head over to the next show with a partially-filled Whitman blue Lincoln Pennies #1 (1909-1939) or #2 (1940-1958) folder to donate to the YN Table to cheer me up..................
0
Comments
Kids today have alot more to choose from to keep them interested and occupied in a hobby....but I think they have more money in their pocket to spend too.
If kids can afford various electronic devices and content as a hobby they can afford the increases in price for beginner coins ( ie silver and all the other coins you don't find in circulation and costs money) . They just have to be turned onto the joys of collecting coins.
I am not worried about today's young collector....every generation has asked the same question.
I invite you to step up and buy some of the more expensive coins you need to fill your albums.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
finding the right balance is the key.
K
<< <i>low tech hobbies are a dying breed. It's amazing kids are into coins at all these days. >>
True. All my nephew wants to do is look at screens. Computer screens, iPod games, smoething called a DS, all kinds of screens. I given him old coins here and there, but they can't compete with a screen.
As for pulling from circulation, there are still errors, still occasional silver in half dollar rolls, there are sets that can be completed from circulation such as the state quarters or SBAs or similar. The enterprising and knowledgeable youth can and have bought products from the mint, and sold them for decent profits. Back in the day, that wasn't really an option because the local dealer would take his/her share of the profits and there was little to none left for the collector.
Sure coin collecting is very different today than 45 years ago when silver still circulated and an occasional better date coin might be found. However, so is virtually everything else. The coin hobby is alive and well, though going through some changes. These are relative good times to be a coin collector.
I'm a big baseball fan, and have a 12-year-old who plays, but isn't really into it. I've never felt it was right to pressure him into it. The same with coins--I like them, he doesn't. It's OK. He has enough other worthwhile interests.
There are many, many collectors who didn't take a shine to the hobby until later in life. I suspect that will happen here.
If it doesn't, such is life.
<< <i><< low tech hobbies are a dying breed. It's amazing kids are into coins at all these days. >>
True. All my nephew wants to do is look at screens. Computer screens, iPod games, smoething called a DS, all kinds of screens. I given him old coins here and there, but they can't compete with a screen. >>
All too true - yesterday, in between playing with his new iPod and remote control helicopter, my nephew/God son found a few minutes to humor me and put the four latest walkers I had brought him into his 'long set' album I started for him a number of years ago. After he sped off, I reflected that it didn't bother me that he wasn't really interested; I liked the fact that I was creating a store of value for him for the future. Long after the iPod is obsolete and the helicopter has been transported to the great dump in the sky, those walkers will still be locked away in his father's safe, retaining and maybe even growing in value.
<< <i>
<< <i><< low tech hobbies are a dying breed. It's amazing kids are into coins at all these days. >>
True. All my nephew wants to do is look at screens. Computer screens, iPod games, smoething called a DS, all kinds of screens. I given him old coins here and there, but they can't compete with a screen. >>
All too true - yesterday, in between playing with his new iPod and remote control helicopter, my nephew/God son found a few minutes to humor me and put the four latest walkers I had brought him into his 'long set' album I started for him a number of years ago. After he sped off, I reflected that it didn't bother me that he wasn't really interested; I liked the fact that I was creating a store of value for him for the future. Long after the iPod is obsolete and the helicopter has been transported to the great dump in the sky, those walkers will still be locked away in his father's safe, retaining and maybe even growing in value. >>
With all due respect, if he is not interested in coins, once he finds girls, those coins are sold. With that said, it is still nice to create memories for him. He will always remember his Uncle as someone interested in coins... and who knows, once he gets his own sons and/or nephews he might try and get some coins for them.
U.S. Type Set
<< <i>With all due respect, if he is not interested in coins, once he finds girls, those coins are sold. With that said, it is still nice to create memories for him. He will always remember his Uncle as someone interested in coins... and who knows, once he gets his own sons and/or nephews he might try and get some coins for them. >>
Oh how true. How many of us now into our 50's and 60's remember a family member like a grandfather or uncle who started us on out way to collecting coins? I know that memory never goes away at least for me, and I'm sure that's true for most of us.
Probably most of us who are that old have sold their coins and got out of the hobby several times only to come back to it with renewed interest at a later time. The bug never goes away. Maybe sex drugs and rock and roll when we are young, maybe a new baby or house or divorce or financial need of some kind when we are older, but I bet most of us went thru this and came back again eventually. It's kind of cool that the coins are there when you need them in these kind of situations, a store of wealth that you can tap if you are up against the wall... maybe that family member that got you into coins in the first place had a notion that this was a good hobby that could bail your butt out if you needed it someday. At least I like to think that might have been something he/she thought about.
And like gyocomgd said, some take a shine to this hobby later in life. Some folks never get bit by the collecting bug. But it's all good, as there will always be someone that takes an interest in coins, it's something that will always afflict a certain percentage of the population, and they will be the ones who reap the benefits of this hobby.
What I learned by the 2nd grade - The good coins have always been too expensive and the junk stays about the same.
When i got to high school was the late 70s- when gold and silver really started to take off, so it was real fun to get the next Red Book and see that even my junk had gone up in value.
I never attended a coin show until I was 30, so before that all coins were from shops or mail order site unseen. The only tip off to dealers about age may have been spelling or grammer or sending cash in the mail.
<< <i>Video games and Facebook rule. Coin collecting is now going down the same road as stamp collecting ... the cliff is just up ahead. >>
Really, I have been watching "Life after People" and stamps will only last 100 years or so after people have vanished, but gold coins will last millions of years. The only clue our replacements will have about us are the gold coins they will dig up eons from now.
Don't fret it IMO.
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
Lincoln Memorials are what they see and therefore what they collect. Oh, it's nice to see and collect
the wheats but they can't complete an album from change and can with the memorials.
Like you and the wheats and Indian Head Cents. Bet you saw very few of them, if any, and therefore
did not have a blue IHC folder.
So, yes, today's memorials are your wheats just like they were for me.
bob
<< <i>Too nostalgic. Kids have access today that us long time collectors could only dream of. The top tier of youth can develop relationships with major dealers with full respect. Over the Internet no one knows how old you are. Back in the day, many a big time dealer would laugh off or belittle a young collector at the shows that may have some money that they have saved up--heck the dealers still do. Over the Internet, if a kid has the cash from saving and/or working, they often will command the full respect. Kids have more cash than ever. It isn't unusual for a 15 year old to have several hundred dollars in spending money after a birthday or big holiday or saving for a while.
As for pulling from circulation, there are still errors, still occasional silver in half dollar rolls, there are sets that can be completed from circulation such as the state quarters or SBAs or similar. The enterprising and knowledgeable youth can and have bought products from the mint, and sold them for decent profits. Back in the day, that wasn't really an option because the local dealer would take his/her share of the profits and there was little to none left for the collector.
Sure coin collecting is very different today than 45 years ago when silver still circulated and an occasional better date coin might be found. However, so is virtually everything else. The coin hobby is alive and well, though going through some changes. These are relative good times to be a coin collector. >>
I agree in at least some ways with almost all of the responses so far, but this one largely says it all. Most coin collectors want to "plant the seed" of coin collecting into a young person's mind, but true collectors will, through mutual affinity, find their own way towards coins. Trying to cram the coin collecting habit down a youngster's throat can and will often backfire.
When I sell coins I never make judgements about a person's financial strengths based on age. Though a middle-aged person would most likely have more money on hand than a third grader, that third grader may know someone who could afford your coins and become a potential future customer.
Young people have more money today than those of generations past. Even during the days I was in elementary school (a decade and a half ago) if you tried to pay with a $20 bill a store clerk would question where you got that much money whereas today a kid with a $20 wouldn't raise an eyebrow. It was a different time in a different generation that's now history.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
- - Dave
every other hobby has been overwhelmed by the electronic game craze.
maybe coins may skip a generation.
I will admit however that when I do go to the occasional coin show I don't see the large binders filled of circulated, low-cost coins like I did 30+ years ago. In those days these binders were my primary source of new materail. But today, kids have eBay and other internet sites from which to shop. Yes, they can get fleeced on eBay. But I got fleeced a few times myself at these shows so it's a part of the learning experience.
Its impossible to judge the environment that kids live in today much less compare it to what we had as kids. Plain and simple. Every hobby evolves with and adapts to its times and the very fact that coin collecting has endured hundreds of years of economic changes attest to its survivability.
Heck, to even imply that coin collecting needs kids is really stretching it since some folks never did collect coins as kids and if they did, only a very small portion addressed it with any serious goals. It was more or less a whim. Lots of folks started collecting as adults. Look at Charmy (aka The Penny Lady), she started as an adult: "When I was in my late 30’s I had no clue what a numismatist was."
I have no doubts that there are many more so all this pining about how the youth of today just don't have the same opportunities as us older folks did and the hobby will surely die is just not thinking straight nor realistically.
The name is LEE!