Does a green bean on a rattler reduce the value?
Bayard1908
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Many rattler buyers are hoping for an upgrade, not just an accurate grade.
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Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
CAC will only gold bean the rattler if they feel it's a lock upgrade. On a MS64 coin for example that means MS 65.4.....not a 65.0. There are probably very few rattlers that are that choice. And those green bean rattlers that might only be 64.8 to 65.3 in CAC's eyes, will get plenty of attention from eager buyers. Imo anything of that high a quality will for the most part eventually gets upgraded.
roadrunner
<< <i>IMHO most of the OGH's in competent dealer hands are there because they are fairly confident they will not cross. >>
Huh?
<< <i>Green beans can in no way reduce the value of a PCGS holdered coin, makes no sense whatsoever. >>
Good point!
<< <i>Green beans can in no way reduce the value of a PCGS holdered coin, makes no sense whatsoever. >>
Many people pay a premium for rattlers because they have a reputation for being undergraded with a chance for a potential upgrade. A green CAC sticker says the coin's upgrade potential is now close to zero.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>Green beans can in no way reduce the value of a PCGS holdered coin, makes no sense whatsoever. >>
Many people pay a premium for rattlers because they have a reputation for being undergraded with a chance for a potential upgrade. A green CAC sticker says the coin's upgrade potential is now close to zero. >>
It doesn't say anything close to "the coin's upgrade potential is now close to zero". It says that CAC (and that is just one opinion) thinks the coin is solid for the grade or better, but not a lock-upgrade. They could think the coin had a 95%+ chance at an upgrade and award it a green, but not gold sticker.
There are always exceptions and flukes of nature to everthing out there.
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<< <i>...With the bean on the slab why pay more than the grade noted on the holder?..../q] For the same reason that you'd pay PQ money for it without a sticker on it - if it is truly a "nice PQ", coin, a number of people will think it has a shot to up-grade. And that goes for whether it has the "bean" on it or not.
The sticker merely indicates that CAC does not think it is a C quality coin or an altered coin or a 100% lock upgrade. There is a lot in between which still allows for an opinion that the coin has a very good chance to up-grade. And that doesn't even account for those who don't care what CAC thinks about the coin.
<< <i>Many rattler buyers are hoping for an upgrade, not just an accurate grade. >>
Most rattlers [like the OGHs] that could upgrade have already been tried or upgraded.
<< <i>Does a green bean on a rattler reduce the value? >>
Actually, the answer is quite obvious - to some people, yes and to others, no.
<< <i>
<< <i>IMHO most of the OGH's in competent dealer hands are there because they are fairly confident they will not cross. >>
Huh? >>
Will not cross? You mean will not upgrade? You lost me too.
Lance.
Judging by the posts here, it seems to happen, which is crazy IMO.
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<< <i>I think it's more than a little silly if an OGH brings more $$$ than the same OGH with a CAC sticker.
Judging by the posts here, it seems to happen, which is crazy IMO. >>
I didn't see anything in the posts here to indicate that "it seems to happen". Each of is is merely speculating.
I don't know about that.
I do know that I have several I purchased back many many years ago. I haven't tried upgrading any of them. I would bet there are plenty of other collectors like me that just don't have the time or inclination to crack them at this point in time. Nor do I give a rats arse about having them stickered. I would guess their are huge numbers of collectors out there that feel the same as I.
<< <i>Most rattlers [like the OGHs] that could upgrade have already been tried or upgraded.
I don't know about that.
I do know that I have several I purchased back many many years ago. I haven't tried upgrading any of them. I would bet there are plenty of other collectors like me that just don't have the time or inclination to crack them at this point in time. Nor do I give a rats arse about having them stickered. I would guess their are huge numbers of collectors out there that feel the same as I. >>
There are always a few that escape which is why I said most. There is no way to know how many are in hands like yours, but I'd say less than 25%.
<< <i>
<< <i>Most rattlers [like the OGHs] that could upgrade have already been tried or upgraded.
I don't know about that.
I do know that I have several I purchased back many many years ago. I haven't tried upgrading any of them. I would bet there are plenty of other collectors like me that just don't have the time or inclination to crack them at this point in time. Nor do I give a rats arse about having them stickered. I would guess their are huge numbers of collectors out there that feel the same as I. >>
There are always a few that escape which is why I said most. There is no way to know how many are in hands like yours, but I'd say less than 25%. >>
There are many older collectors that bought slabbed coins for their collections when the rattlers and OGH's were new coins so I don't buy the theory that "most" were already tried for upgrades. I have a couple hundred older slabs in my collection from the late 80's and 90's that were never tried for an upgrade and I'm sure that there are many others like me. Most collectors aren't playing the crackout game to maximize the grades of their coins. They would rather spend those postal and slabbing fees on new coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I am happy to say that I've never paid a premium for a coin in a rattler specifically because it was in a rattler. Call me crazy, but I tend to buy into all of that "buy the coin, not the plastic" stuff. That said, many folks do like to play the crackout game and as such pay premiums for high end coins in rattlers. It's strange, but it certainly seems plausible that a CAC green sticker might discourage one of these people from buying a coin for that purpose. >>
Let's say you find a coin in a rattler that you think has a good shot to upgrade.....
You show it to your expert collector friend or dealer and ask his opinion.....
He tells you that the coin is solid for the grade or better (an opinion he has on only approximately 50% of the slabbed coins he views), but that its chance of an upgrade is less than 100%....
Would that make it more or less likely that you would try the coin for an upgrade than before you got his opinion?
For me, it would reaffirm my opinion that it was a nice coin and worth a try.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Most rattlers [like the OGHs] that could upgrade have already been tried or upgraded.
I don't know about that.
I do know that I have several I purchased back many many years ago. I haven't tried upgrading any of them. I would bet there are plenty of other collectors like me that just don't have the time or inclination to crack them at this point in time. Nor do I give a rats arse about having them stickered. I would guess their are huge numbers of collectors out there that feel the same as I. >>
There are always a few that escape which is why I said most. There is no way to know how many are in hands like yours, but I'd say less than 25%. >>
There are many older collectors that bought slabbed coins for their collections when the rattlers and OGH's were new coins so I don't buy the theory that "most" were already tried for upgrades. I have a couple hundred older slabs in my collection from the late 80's and 90's that were never tried for an upgrade and I'm sure that there are many others like me. Most collectors aren't playing the crackout game to maximize the grades of their coins. They would rather spend those postal and slabbing fees on new coins. >>
I wasn't implying that the collector themselves necessarily tried for upgrades, but the ones floating around in auctions or dealer stock or up for sale in whatever venue have most likely been considered for crackout/upgrade. To buy a rattler or OGH coin from Heritage or off of eBay or TeleTrade with the thought that it might upgrade is wishful thinking at best. If you were to put yours on the market in 6 months they'd likely be run through the upgrade mill.
Franklin-Lover's Forum
<< <i>
<< <i>IMHO most of the OGH's in competent dealer hands are there because they are fairly confident they will not cross. >>
Huh? >>
I meant upgrade.