Is there a difference between a proof coin and an uncirculated coin?

nam812 · December 11, 2009 11:08AM

I know it's probably another rookie question by me, but if I dont ask I'll never learn. Now here is the situaton that prompted my question.

I recently purchased a 1984 Olympic coin set with 1 gold $10 coin (almost 1/2 oz) and 2 silver $1 coins (and slightly over 3/4 oz of silver each). All the paper work with my 3 coins say - Condition: Proof

Now I see this auction, and he has 4 sets of these coins (one from each mint) which are all PROOF and 1 extra gold coin which he is calling UNC. In case you do not want to click on the link, here is a portion of his wording from the auction:

1984 - P PROOF (33,309 Minted)*Key Coin
1984 - D PROOF (34,533 Minted)
1984 - S PROOF (48,551 Minted)
1984 - W UNC (75,886 Minted)
1984 - W PROOF (381,055 Minted)

This is the specific instance which sparked my question of is there a difference between a proof coin and an uncirculated coin?

Thanks in advance, and happy holidays to you all and your families.

Nick

SilverEagles92 · December 11, 2009 11:11AM

Yes. they are different.

A proof coin is struck with highly polished dies and planchets, which produces a coin with very reflective fields and frosted devices. (basically, the design on the coin is frosty, and the background is like a mirror)

On an uncirculated coin, the planchets and dies are not polished, so the finish is not mirror-like.

nam812 · December 11, 2009 11:15AM

Thank you very much Chad.

Is either more desirable? Is either better to grade?

Nick

secondrepublic · December 11, 2009 11:15AM

Yes - proof is basically a coin with a mirrored background and frosty cameo appearance on the raised points. Usually struck from polished dies and planchets and may be struck twice with the die to bring up the design. An uncirculated coin is basically a coin struck the way normal circulation coins are struck, i.e., no polished planchets/dies and one strike from the machine. Obviously, the gold uncirculated coins are handled more carefully than your run of the mill Lincoln cent struck for circulation. But it's the same concept.

SilverEagles92 · December 11, 2009 11:17AM

That really depends on the coin and the series.

In general, though, if we're talking about modern coins, the proofs are usually more desirable/expensive. Part of that is due to the fact that the US Mint charges more for proof coins than uncirculated coins, probably because of the extra care and attention they require to make them.

I'm not entirely sure what "better to grade" means.

nam812 · December 11, 2009 11:26AM

<< ........I'm not entirely sure what "better to grade" means. >>

What I meant was would either coin (lets say striaght from the mint) be more likely to receive a higher grade from a third party grader due to the way in which it was struck?

Nick

SilverEagles92 · December 11, 2009 11:27AM

<< 

<< ........I'm not entirely sure what "better to grade" means. >>

What I meant was would either coin (lets say striaght from the mint) be more likely to receive a higher grade from a third party grader due to the way in which it was struck?

Nick >>

I'd say neither is more likely.

Unless you're comparing an uncirculated coin like from the bank to a proof coin. Then, of course. the proof coin would be more likely to grade higher.

But if we're talking Silver Eagles or something, I'd say they have nearly equal chances of grading high (69-70)

OnlyGoldIsMoney · December 11, 2009 11:32AM

<< Thank you very much Chad.

Is either more desirable? Is either better to grade?

Nick >>

Much of my gold bullion is in the form of 1984 $10 Olympic gold coins. They are attractive coins usually selling for only a modest premium over melt.

I must have 8 to 10 times more proof coins than uncirculated examples. I am guessing that the Mint sold far more proof sets than uncirculated sets. Price wise there is no difference, they're just viewed as bullion.

nam812 · December 11, 2009 11:38AM

Thanks for all the help guys, I really appreciate it.

One last thing (well maybe not last), can I touch them? (OK stop laughing) It's just that I really would like to, but I'm not sure if they should be removed from the clear plastic 2 piece discs they are in.

If there is a formal name for those clear plastic 2 piece discs please feel free to share that info with me as well.

Nick

SilverEagles92 · December 11, 2009 11:41AM

We usually refer to the discs as capsules

And, if you want to, you can touch them - remember to hold them only by the edges, though. But, I wouldn't touch them. That's just me.

Weiss · December 11, 2009 11:52AM

It's a great question. SilverEagles nailed it. Technically, proofs were originally collector only coins--the state of the art for coinage. Specially prepared dies and planchets designed to contrast the design as flawlessly as possible.

But the line has blurred, and for modern commemorative coins--especially the gold and silver coins--the non-proof examples were never struck for circulation anyway. They are struck by specially prepared dies, on specially prepared blanks. So aren't they technically proofs, too?

My 2 cents: The modern $5 and $10 gold coins are a great value and a fine way to buy gold. But with few exceptions, the "uncriculated" examples have far smaller mintages. It seems possible and even likely that at some point in the future, the market will wake up and realize that a mintage of 46k uncirculated is far more scarce than 165k proof ($5 Capitol dome, for example). The uncirculated may not be worth 4 x as much, but maybe 1.5 to 2 x isn't out of line.

Weiss · December 11, 2009 11:58AM

<< Thanks for all the help guys, I really appreciate it.

One last thing (well maybe not last), can I touch them? (OK stop laughing) It's just that I really would like to, but I'm not sure if they should be removed from the clear plastic 2 piece discs they are in.

If there is a formal name for those clear plastic 2 piece discs please feel free to share that info with me as well.

Nick >>

As a rule: no, don't touch them. Don't take them out of the capsules. The tiniest contact on the mirrored surface will leave minute scratches, called "hairlines", that will reduce a PF70 or PF69 coin down to a PF65 or PF63. That will essentially make them unwanted by collectors and even less desired by bullion buyers.

You own the coins, you can do with them what you will. But if you're concerned about the numismatic value of these pieces at all--leave them untouched and unopened in their capsules.

TomB · December 11, 2009 2:34PM

I realize you are not asking about the auction you linked, but I had seen it too and in my opinion if there is a buyer for that set at that price then they are buried in the set. You have received good information regarding proof and business strike coinage.

nam812 · December 11, 2009 8:53PM

<< I realize you are not asking about the auction you linked, but I had seen it too and in my opinion if there is a buyer for that set at that price then they are buried in the set............ >>

You are right. I understand that there may be a premium (or there may not) because it is a complete 13 coin set of which only 10,000 of that large set were produced (claimed in the auction description), but the reality is that the 13 coins in the set I linked ($6,800 starting bid and $7,500 BIN) have a PM value of under $3,000.

<< .......You have received good information regarding proof and business strike coinage. >>

It's a confident feeling knowing that I can turn to the good members of this forum for solid answers.

Nick

jmski52 · December 12, 2009 10:03AM

That set may be "rare" because not many were packaged and sold as a 13 coin set, but the coins in that set are not worth anywhere close to the asking price. The first year after that set was produced, it would have been considered a "killer set", but not now.

Although Modern Proofs are sold at a higher price generally, there are many cases where the "Uncs" ultimately command a higher price in the secondary market. Because the appearance is more dramatic and because they cost more initially, it usually happens that more Proofs than Uncs are sold, and if there is a significant differential between the coins in terms of total mintage, the Unc prices can sometimes outpace the Proofs in the long run.

Until about 1969, the Modern Proofs were "brilliant proofs" instead of the "cameo proofs" that we have now. A brilliant proof has a brilliant mirror finish on both the devices and the fields. The Proof Sets I bought in '68 were brilliant proofs, and the following year, my sets all had cameos. As I recall, people started asking the Mint to replicate the cameo appearance that some of the 1968 coins had when the dies were still new, so the Mint accomodated this preference the following year.

Is there a difference between a proof coin and an uncirculated coin?

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