OFFICIAL Red Turned Red Brown or Brown in the SLAB picture post thread
ambro51
Posts: 13,952 ✭✭✭✭✭
OK Guys...................................
lets see all those before and after pictures. Hope PCGS has sufficent bandwidth!! Post all of those RED coppers that you bought in PCGS slabs that have turned RED BROWN or BROWN while sealed up in the slab.
Lets see them!!
lets see all those before and after pictures. Hope PCGS has sufficent bandwidth!! Post all of those RED coppers that you bought in PCGS slabs that have turned RED BROWN or BROWN while sealed up in the slab.
Lets see them!!
0
Comments
<< <i>OK Guys...................................
lets see all those before and after pictures. Hope PCGS has sufficent bandwidth!! Post all of those RED coppers that you bought in PCGS slabs that have turned RED BROWN or BROWN while sealed up in the slab.
Lets see them!! >>
Surely you jest! There will be very few, if any, that have turned from Red to RB or BN. Now if you had asked for photos of all those that
had turned from Red to WEIRD and FUNKY RED as a result of a trip to the "doctor," that might be another story. You won't get many, however. The coin doctors typically work on those coins in which there is a huge profit to be made from turning a highly lustrous RB into a Red or a somewhat spotty 64 or 63 Red into a 65 Red. They almost always work on key and semi key dates exclusively.
Skillfully done, it's not possible to detect the coloring if freshly done, but after six months to a year in a slab the doctoring becomes obvious. Sure, coins will get spotty from storage in a high humidy environment such as a Sentry fire retardant safe, but a renewable dessicant and Intercept Shield boxes can stop spotting from occuring. A chemically active surface of a doctored coin will continue to change regardless of the storage method. I believe that's the major concern PCGS in making this monumental decision. I hope they revisit this decision. It certaiy can be refined and improved. It simy isn't fair to thousands of primarily Lincoln and Indian cent collectors who gave many millions of dollars collectively into their red coins to have the promise of a guarantee abruptly yanked.
Ira
edited to add: this is about the only one that I can think of from my entire old set, or even anything that I currently own.
Empty Nest Collection
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
<< <i>Heritage had the lack of integrity to aution this WITHOUT noting that it was in fact NOT RED LINK (& PCGS only paid me $2,760 for the buyback instead of the market value of a 63RD at the time - near 6k):
Were you expecting PCGS to pay you more than you paid for the coin?
<< <i>Heritage had the lack of integrity to aution this WITHOUT noting that it was in fact NOT RED LINK (& PCGS only paid me $2,760 for the buyback instead of the market value of a 63RD at the time - near 6k):
>>
Based on the images, seems like you were hoping to get "market value" for the coin after you had won it because the images surely show a coin that's RB
Even with the Heritage pics its clearly not red.
<< <i>Are you saying you bought the 55 double die thinking it would be red?
Even with the Heritage pics its clearly not red. >>
I'm surprised an ethical company like Heritage would sell a coin that's clearly mislabeled and, hence, misrepresented.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Heritage had the lack of integrity to aution this WITHOUT noting that it was in fact NOT RED LINK (& PCGS only paid me $2,760 for the buyback instead of the market value of a 63RD at the time - near 6k): >>
I'm sure if the original owner had submitted the coin under the guarantee, they would have been paid fair market value. I'm sorry but to buy that coin out of that auction with those pictures and expect to make a few thousand dollars under the guarantee is a wee bit underhanded, imo.
I sent this coin in under the guarantee as it is clearly RB and not RD. I would have been happy with a simple RB designation and no compensation whatsoever, but PCGS decided that this coin is still RD.
Lincoln set Colorless Set
That has always scared me about the previous PCGS guarantee. If you have an MS65 coin that just looks bad and is no better than say MS63, PCGS could potentially say the grade on the holder was always a mechanical error and not covered. Same goes for the color designation I suppose.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
And FWIW, this experience prompted me to move everything to PCGS. Their lifetime guarantee, and their follow-through, told me this was the TPG to trust.
Old, not-so-hot pix. Sorry about that.
Lance.
<< <i>Here's one that was messed with and turned in the slab, just as Ira was saying. 65RD. PCGS took care of it.
And FWIW, this experience prompted me to move everything to PCGS. Their lifetime guarantee, and their follow-through, told me this was the TPG to trust. >>
Lance,
Your statement is the root of all this uproar and I'm glad you said it again because people are missing the point. Whether it was a good business decision is not the issue; we bought a product with a lifetime guarantee and the entity offering that guarantee is still operating.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/2819
<< <i>Good grief! Misrepresentation? The first line of Heritage's description is "Each side is covered with rich glossy brown patina and the devices show a bright outline of original red luster." What part of "rich glossy brown patina" is hard to understand? The coin is brown in the picture, the description says it's brown, and you expect PCGS to pay you for it not magically being a red coin when you open your mail? WTF? No wonder the PCGS guarantee went the way of the Dodo. >>
Yep, customers will be unreasonable. Sometimes impossible.
I'm surprised you got all your money back, actually. PCGS payout is usually more conservative. You got lucky, BigRick. Tuition often is much more expensive.
Lance.
Go to any company's auction, Heritage included, and spend a few hours previewing the lots You will find coins in every auction such as this. You have to buy the coin not the holder as well as inspect them in person or with a trusted knowledgeable representative. Buying a coin from a picture without in-hand viewing is risky from any auction.
An auction house is in the business of selling a coin and making a profit from the process. They rely upon the expertise and grading of the TPG or their own numismatic staff for a raw coin. Coins such as this 1955 double die are out there in any auction.
Website-Americana Rare Coin Inc
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Does it really matter if the label says RD or RB on a coin like this ie at this price point? Just wondering. >>
haha, I actually deleted something along the lines of this from my post before I hit reply. I guess it doesn't matter, although for me it would have been cool to have a pop 3/0 instead of a pop 1683/136.
Why would you feel the price point should matter anyway?
Lincoln set Colorless Set
The Penny Lady®
There are many instances where I was offered coins fresh back from the grading services that were blatantly RB. They didn't change, they were just overgraded to begin with.
<< <i>
<< <i>Are you saying you bought the 55 double die thinking it would be red?
Even with the Heritage pics its clearly not red. >>
I'm surprised an ethical company like Heritage would sell a coin that's clearly mislabeled and, hence, misrepresented. >>
It's an auction, and the pictures are clear enough for one to make a determination on it's color.
How many times have we heard, if you don't like it, don't bid, in relation to eBay, etc.?
The forum member that bought this coin got lucky IMO to get all his money back from PCGS.
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