Thoughts on PCGS taking away Copper Guarantee after Jan 2010

BNBAnalytics · December 10, 2009 2:22AM

I think it's a great idea for PCGS since it's a losing business model in my opinion if it continues forever since there are some very expensive coins that benefit from the guarantee and already that's money out of PCGS's pocket.

I can also see the flipside for collectors who like their guarantee..

Here's my thing, why doesn't PCGS just validate whether or not the coin is eligible for coverage by the serial number and the date it was graded?

What are some of your thoughts.. Nonetheless, I always stand by PCGS since they are my fav. grading company and I personally want to thank the President of PCGS(Who I know read this forum).. It's companies like PCGS that give coins a good name.

bnb

blu62vette · December 10, 2009 2:23AM

Many thoughts here

braddick · December 10, 2009 2:23AM

Copper not being grandfathered into the new policy is what is going to make it work.

BNBAnalytics · December 10, 2009 2:24AM

Oh okay, thanks for that.

wondercoin · December 10, 2009 2:26AM

I have a very simple thought... if PCGS is moving ahead with its plan as discussed, why not go a step further and remove ALL color designations from the holders? This way, the market can set the values on red through brown coins, and all myriad shades in between, without looking at a specific designation on a holder which comes with no guarantee as to that color anyway. Just a thought. I am not even sure the majority of copper collectors would be in favor of it.

Wondercoin

renomedphys · December 10, 2009 2:30AM

<< I am not even sure the majority of copper collectors would be in favor of it.

Wondercoin >>

I am!

BNBAnalytics · December 10, 2009 2:33AM

Interesting point, wondercoin..

Hey guys, is copper the easiest color to change over silver and gold?

braddick · December 10, 2009 2:33AM

Mitch, That's a top notch idea!
I see a (series of) phone call(s) in your near future.

MikeInFL · December 10, 2009 2:38AM

<< I think it's a great idea for PCGS since it's a losing business model in my opinion if it continues forever since there are some very expensive coins that benefit from the guarantee and already that's money out of PCGS's pocket. >>

Losing business models don't yield 60% GP nor $16M in cash.

If it were a losing business model, how do you explain the above?

MikeInFL · December 10, 2009 2:41AM

<< Here's my thing, why doesn't PCGS just validate whether or not the coin is eligible for coverage by the serial number and the date it was graded? >>

Because it doesn't matter. If the coin is for sale after 1/1, it has no guarantee. If the coin is not for sale, the current owner of the coin (who presumably bought or had it slabbed prior to 1/1) is the only one who has any guarantee.

MikeInFL · December 10, 2009 2:44AM

<< What are some of your thoughts.. Nonetheless, I always stand by PCGS since they are my fav. grading company and I personally want to thank the President of PCGS(Who I know read this forum).. It's companies like PCGS that give coins a good name. >>

"always" ???

Really, is your love of PCGS that unconditional that they can unilaterally change their "lifetime" guarantee without so much as an eyebrow raised?

Take, for instance, your CC morgan dollar in PCGS plastic. What if PCGS said tomorrow that they would no longer consider counterfeits under their grading guarantee, and your coin ends up being counterfeit. Would you still say the same thing?

I doubt it.

BNBAnalytics · December 10, 2009 2:48AM

Whoa Mike, I'm not here to argue with you or anything..

I just think that if PCGS keeps having to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars for copper coins that lose original color year over year, that sounds to me like a losing business model financially..
So to increase their market share, I think what they are doing is great..

Now, my serial number idea I think is actually a good idea since it should be for coins certified before Jan.1st, 2010 that get the guarantee since you can transfer that guarantee over to the next guy when you sell him the coin..

That's all I really have to say on the matter. To each is own.

Hope the weather is still nice there in Florida

RyGuy · December 10, 2009 2:50AM

Someone needs to lay off the Kool-Aid...

MikeInFL · December 10, 2009 2:54AM

BNB, I'm not here to argue with you either, but if there's one thing you should have learned in our interactions here and ATS (hint:

), it's that I call out what I consider to be mistaken logic....

<< I just think that if PCGS keeps having to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars for copper coins that lose original color year over year, that sounds to me like a losing business model financially..
So to increase their market share, I think what they are doing is great.. >>

But it isn't "increasing market share" that's driving the decision, it's liability and the P&L of the business -- thus my comments.

<< Now, my serial number idea I think is actually a good idea since it should be for coins certified before Jan.1st, 2010 that get the guarantee since you can transfer that guarantee over to the next guy when you sell him the coin.. >>

You think it's a good idea because you don't understand the PCGS announcement. FOR COPPER COINS THE RD/RB GUARANTEE IS NOT TRANSFERRABLE, thus there's no need to do anything to the holder. If you see the coin for sale after 1/1, it has no guarantee.

Take care...Mike (and yes, it's pretty today, thanks for asking

)

WinPitcher · December 10, 2009 3:02AM

I just think that if PCGS keeps having to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars for copper coins that lose original color year over year, that sounds to me like a losing business model financially..
So to increase their market share, I think what they are doing is great..

So the collector should be the one left holding the bag? Not such a great model for him/her.

Steve

BlindedByEgo · December 10, 2009 3:09AM

Lifetime is lifetime. Anything less, flush all credibility.

Thoughts on PCGS taking away Copper Guarantee after Jan 2010

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