Congrats to Martin Brodeur - 103rd SO!
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Ties the All-Time shutout record with Terry Sawchuk. Broduer owns almost every significant goaltender record and still doesn't get the respect he deserves.
Most wins, most shutouts, most games played, 3 Stanley Cups, Olympic Gold Medal winning goalie, World Cup Gold Medal winning goalie, 4 Vezina Trophies, 4 Jennings Trophies, Calder Trophy winner NHL ROY), most regular season wins (575), most wins in a season (48), most consecutive seasons of 30 or more wins (12), most 40 or more win seasons (7), scored a regular season goal AND a post season goal, lowest postseason GAA (1.96), only goaltender since Sawchuk (1953-55) to post back-to-back regular season GAA under 2.00.
Most wins, most shutouts, most games played, 3 Stanley Cups, Olympic Gold Medal winning goalie, World Cup Gold Medal winning goalie, 4 Vezina Trophies, 4 Jennings Trophies, Calder Trophy winner NHL ROY), most regular season wins (575), most wins in a season (48), most consecutive seasons of 30 or more wins (12), most 40 or more win seasons (7), scored a regular season goal AND a post season goal, lowest postseason GAA (1.96), only goaltender since Sawchuk (1953-55) to post back-to-back regular season GAA under 2.00.
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<< <i>Ties the All-Time shutout record with Terry Sawchuk. Broduer owns almost every significant goaltender record and still doesn't get the respect he deserves.
Most wins, most shutouts, most games played, 3 Stanley Cups, Olympic Gold Medal winning goalie, World Cup Gold Medal winning goalie, 4 Vezina Trophies, 4 Jennings Trophies, Calder Trophy winner NHL ROY), most regular season wins (575), most wins in a season (48), most consecutive seasons of 30 or more wins (12), most 40 or more win seasons (7), scored a regular season goal AND a post season goal, lowest postseason GAA (1.96), only goaltender since Sawchuk (1953-55) to post back-to-back regular season GAA under 2.00. >>
It's fantastic that Marty tied it. He is the best, no doubt. Screw Roy. Now I know there are a lot of his 1990 score rookies American out there but not as many of the 1990 Score Canadian. So I am going to buy more of those. chaz
I'll respect him when he plays for Boston, but I'll just keep hating him until then.
Steve
When you mention that Sawchuk didn't wear a mask for the first half of his career, that means something, but not really a whole lot. Like you said, everything is relative to the different era's that players play in. On the NHL network they had a special on about the 50th anniversary of Plante weraing a mask on a regular basis. Kevin Weekes talked to Johnny Bower and then there was an interview with Ken Dryden. I like Dryden to the extent that he is able to look at himself with perspective. Dryden talked about how, before the mask and even during his career (remember it really wasn't until the cage and hybrids began to be used in the early 80's that the mask really provided any real protection from a dead on shot to the head) that the coaches and the goalies drumbeat into the shooters' heads to shoot low. For the most part, the goalies did not have that much to worry about. In the 50's and 60's look at how many goalies played in all 70 games. Heck, Hall played in 502 straight games playing butterfly without a mask. Yeah, they had to worry about the odd Bobby Hull, but today players that can shoot that hard are the rule, not the exception.
As a kid I remember Parent making a kick save on Hodge slapshop in the 3rd period of the the clincher in 1974. I recall the announcers raving about the save and them replaying it. Now, as an adult, watching it on DVD, I'm thinking it is a good thing he made that save because today he would have been booed off the ice if he hadn't. The shot was unscreened from 55 feet almost along the boards and Parent was barely at the edge of the crease. Don't get me wrong, Parent is still my idol but it just shows the difference in technique. Another example is from the first game of the summit series and watching Dryden flail at a 40 foot slapshot from Karlomov (sic) that, today would have hit the goalie on the arm.
Again, everything is relative to the era. I think that the goaltending technique, pad size and athleticism has kept pace with the increase in size and skills of the shooters.
Congratulations to Broduer, the best ever.
<< <i>And I'll just keep on hatin' him 'cause I'm a Patrick Roy fan!
Steve >>
Like I said "Screw Roy". Marty is getting the last laugh. chaz
<< <i>It is funny. I have watched a lot of hockey over the last 39 years. I like to watch vintage games as I have the Summit series on DVD plus the Flyers 10 greatest games. I grew up worshipping Bernie Parent. It is amazing how goaltending has evolved.
When you mention that Sawchuk didn't wear a mask for the first half of his career, that means something, but not really a whole lot. Like you said, everything is relative to the different era's that players play in. On the NHL network they had a special on about the 50th anniversary of Plante weraing a mask on a regular basis. Kevin Weekes talked to Johnny Bower and then there was an interview with Ken Dryden. I like Dryden to the extent that he is able to look at himself with perspective. Dryden talked about how, before the mask and even during his career (remember it really wasn't until the cage and hybrids began to be used in the early 80's that the mask really provided any real protection from a dead on shot to the head) that the coaches and the goalies drumbeat into the shooters' heads to shoot low. For the most part, the goalies did not have that much to worry about. In the 50's and 60's look at how many goalies played in all 70 games. Heck, Hall played in 502 straight games playing butterfly without a mask. Yeah, they had to worry about the odd Bobby Hull, but today players that can shoot that hard are the rule, not the exception.
As a kid I remember Parent making a kick save on Hodge slapshop in the 3rd period of the the clincher in 1974. I recall the announcers raving about the save and them replaying it. Now, as an adult, watching it on DVD, I'm thinking it is a good thing he made that save because today he would have been booed off the ice if he hadn't. The shot was unscreened from 55 feet almost along the boards and Parent was barely at the edge of the crease. Don't get me wrong, Parent is still my idol but it just shows the difference in technique. Another example is from the first game of the summit series and watching Dryden flail at a 40 foot slapshot from Karlomov (sic) that, today would have hit the goalie on the arm.
Again, everything is relative to the era. I think that the goaltending technique, pad size and athleticism has kept pace with the increase in size and skills of the shooters.
Congratulations to Broduer, the best ever. >>
very well said, but to the OP I believe Brodeur does get the respect he deserves, for instance, he IS the Devils franchise, and one of the only teams in the NHL who puts the mortgage on their goaltender.
It looks like more and more teams are using more than one goalie throughout the season. I remember when a team had one goalie and rarely did the backup get to play.
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<< <i>nothing against Brodeur, but you can't forget the system he's played in for the majority of his career. The Jacque Lemaire neutral zone - paint drying trap system which is basically designed to lessen the quality of shots on goal by keeping the would be shooters on the outside and bunch their D men in the center. For reference check out N. Backstrom's numbers this season compared to last. I can't put him above Roy or even Hasek at his peak, and the advanced metrics point that out, but he's right there because of his durability.
Link >>
Agreed, to some extent, but if it was that huge of an advantage, everyone would have 100 shutouts.
<< <i>so does this mean the 1990 Score will rise above .50???? So terrible that the HOF players in every sport, who's rookie cards were in this era, will never really be worth much...... if only that set were as scarce as the 1989 FB???? now THAT would be a set! Fedorov, Roenick, Jagr, You name it! and the UD French??? i remember Bure going for $70 and Fedorov for $150 here in Detroit!!! now? $1.25 if yr lucky... and i won't even bring up the OPC Premiere!!! (too late) what a crop of rookies for this garbage era.... but congrats to those that made their $$$$ >>
I still think that the 1990 Score Canadian is gonna be good. I am into them at 17 bucks a box which is high but I still think it's got a shot at $40.00 a box someday. chaz
<< <i>nothing against Brodeur, but you can't forget the system he's played in for the majority of his career. The Jacque Lemaire neutral zone - paint drying trap system which is basically designed to lessen the quality of shots on goal by keeping the would be shooters on the outside and bunch their D men in the center. For reference check out N. Backstrom's numbers this season compared to last. I can't put him above Roy or even Hasek at his peak, and the advanced metrics point that out, but he's right there because of his durability. >>
This is another huge misconception that is used against Brodeur (albeit you claim its "nothing against Brodeur"). The nay-sayers have claimed that Brodeur benefited from the trap (which they haven't played in a over a decade since Lemaire left in 1998) and that he has Hall of Fame defensemen patrolling his blueline (Stevens and Niedermayer have been gone for years). Forgotten in all of this is that Brodeur has actually been a statistically better goaltender since the lockout (with inferior defensive talent). The Devils became more offensive with the absence of Stevens, Niedermayer, Daneyko and Rafalski. As a result, Brodeur hasn't had to stand on his head to protect 1-0 and 2-1 leads.
You can run out all of the stats that you want and quote someone's cyber-metric analysis. You can claim that Hasek or Roy or Richter or Belfour are/were better. But when push comes to shove, I doubt there is ANYONE that would be find a better man to put between the pipes in a deciding game. The Canadian coaches knew this and won Olympic Gold and World Cup Gold selecting Brodeur over Roy, Belfour, Joseph and others.
well not every team utilized the trap even in the legal trap era. Most that did were teams lacking in team speed and skilled scorers. For example, current day Nashville. They have zero skill and very little team speed so they use an updated version of the trap dropping all forwards below the circles. It's also why no one wants to watch their games so running that system in non-traditional hockey markets tends to kill the ticket sales.
The nay-sayers have claimed that Brodeur benefited from the trap (which they haven't played in a over a decade since Lemaire left in 1998)
well it's a apparently a misconception that the trap no longer exists...though it isn't in the hockey world. There are still a number of teams that implement different variations of the trap including the Devils(even since Lemaire's exit) as well as the Wild, Predators, Sabres, Kings(when their 1st line isn't on the ice), Jackets, Oilers, Canucks (esp. when the Sedins are on the bench), and Calgary when they're ahead. Basically look at any team that is subpar in speed on the blueline, and they're playing some variation of the old trap system...that's what it's used for in today's game...to circumvent the alleged "opening up of the game post lockout" which is untrue for the most part. There are consistently teams that set all five skaters in the neutral zone. Next time the Canucks play the Hawks you'll see it esp. when the Kane/Toews/Hossa line is on the ice. It's just way more subtle now than previously during the legal trap era...sort of like how the Red Wings get away with setting illegal picks and interference on nearly all of their set plays. Just because it isn't called doesn't mean it's not going on. Besides, if that weren't the case, then perhaps Brodeur would have ranked in the top 10 in Shots Against just once in his career, esp. considering he starts the vast majority of his team's games...and he has not. In '06-07 he ranked 11th..his top ranking in his career and he made 78 starts that year. So he played every game aside from 4 and couldn't even crack the top 10. That's what the trap or faux-trap variations prevent.
And while it's true that the Devils haven't had the same talent on the blueline as they did when that jag Scott Stevens was teaming with Niedermeyer to form arguably the best defensive combo of the last 25 years, they also haven't won since that pair dissolved. When they left, the Devils instead started loading up on more forwards with defensive talent instead. Namely John Madden, Zubrus, Langenbrunner, Rolston, Pandolfo etc over that span. Madden being the best defensive forward over the last decade. In Brodeur's 16 years as the starter, the Devils have had one non-playoff team, and only one team that didn't finish lower than 3rd place. 14 years of finishing in 1st or 2nd place. The Devils made it to the semi's the 4 years prior to Brodeur becoming the #1 goalie with mediocrity like Chris Terreri and Craig Billington in the crease. They've missed the playoffs once in 20 years. Yes Brodeur was a huge part of that, but not any bigger than Lou Lamoriello who consistently turned those rosters over with depth of talent. The Devils never really had elite offensive superstars until Parise arrived, but they always had deep lines. Look at what Roy did with mediocre Canadiens clubs. They won the Cup with Vincent Damphouse, Muller, and Brian Bellows as their leading scorers, and with defensive liabilities like M.Schneider roaming the blue line. Look at what Hasek took the Sabres to the finals in '98-99 with. One player with more than 60 points (Satan) and their second highest scorer was a checking line C in Mike Peca...and whose top D-men were A. Zhitnik and Jason Wooley...not exactly Niedermeyer/Stevens/Rafalski.
Besides you can only go by stats when one isn't able to watch 10 games a night to compare/constrast him to his peers. Otherwise you're either a homer, or you only put stock into basic counting stats which are largely team dependent. Don't you think a guy like Tomas Vokoun would prosper being away from the sorry Panthers who give up the most shots & scoring chances per game, and have the worst combined D-core? If you put him on a team like Calgary or Detroit he's quite possibly the second best goalie in the league. Seriously. But since he's played on two garbage teams in the Preds and Panthers his whole career he's considered a upper mid-tier goalie because his counting stats like Wins and SOs don't look as gaudy as a guy like Brodeur's even though Vokoun has posted 3 shutouts with the worst defensive team in the league against Brodeur's 2 in 3 fewer starts...and they have the same SV% of .922 this season and identical SV% of .914 over their respective careers...actually Vokoun's is a tick higher at .915. Again, not saying Marty is overrated, nor am I a "naysayer", but you cannot ignore strength of team in this argument...see Chris Osgood. He'd be a career backup goalie if it weren't for his years on the Wings throwing up .884 and .891 SV%s with the Islanders and Blues away from Detroit, but magically banking 30 wins a year and .910+ SV%s with the Wings over the course of his career... including leading the league in GAA at 2.09 in '07-08, the year they happened to win the Cup with one of the best teams ever assembled. Just saying. You gotta go deeper than basic counting and rate stats. I don't like comparing eras either, but in the past 25 years Roy is the best, and I'd still take Hasek over Marty during the 1994-2003 span. I do however feel he's better than Belfour who is the most...maybe not underrated, but overlooked G of this era. For some reason people forget he was an elite goalie. Vokoun would qualify as underrated.