Pattern collectors, do you recognize this?

Bayard1908 · December 7, 2009 8:56AM

I recently bought a slabbed J-1684 nickel. Accompanying the coin was an old time holder with a Woodin number on it. The holder is pictured below.

I have seen this odd type of pattern holder only once before. I believe several slabbed patterns in a recent auction catalog, probably within the last year or two, also included holders exactly like this one. I presume my coin was in the same sale.

If anyone remembers which sale and/or auction company, please let me know. Although I'm not a pattern specialist, I'd like to learn some of the history behind the coin from the auction listing.

fc · December 7, 2009 9:34AM

what year did they start using the R ratings? As in R8?

that could pretty easily identify how old it could possibly be.

fc · December 7, 2009 9:37AM

http://www.archive.org/stream/cu31924029793266/cu31924029793266_djvu.txt

that url has a mention of A. W. 1667 describing a pattern nickel.

"Full text of "Catalogue of the magnificent collection of American colonial coins, historical and national medals, United States coins, U.S. fractional currency, Canadian coins and metals, etc. formed by the late Hon. George M. Parsons, Columbus, Ohio""

I am trying to dig up where that holder came from but the writing on
it is so generic as not to be very helpful.

-------------

bayard.. this is more for me and others to learn.. you already knew this:

What is AW? read below.

"3) United States Pattern, Trial and Experimental Pieces by Edgar Adams and William Woodin First Edition 1913, Third Reprint 1959

This was the standard reference guide from its first edition in 1913 until the Judd book came out in 1959. Amazingly a second reprint edition of this book also came out in 1959 at the same time as the first edition of the Judd book. This work is still important for people doing research as, for almost a half century, all pattern coins sold were listed under “AW” numbers. This work is very incomplete, missing many pattern designs, and ignored die and hub trials entirely. Still, on occasion, a coin listed in this book which Dr. Judd thought was a mistake turns up."

TomB · December 7, 2009 9:43AM

If I recall correctly, a forum member purchased a raw type set with the coins in holders similar to this. The purchase was perhaps three years ago.

IGWT · December 7, 2009 9:49AM

AW 1667 is an 1882 5c libnick pattern. The AW (E. Adams & W. Woodin) number corresponds to Pollock 1886, Judd 1684, and Taxay 1225. See this link at uspatterns.com. Edited to add: After reading your post more closely, I realize that you probably already know all this, but perhaps it will be useful information for others. I have no idea what sale the coin came from or who used holder/envelopes like that.

coindeuce · December 7, 2009 10:27AM

If you contact MrEureka here or at uspatterns.com, you may get a quick answer to your question about auction appearances of raw patterns in this type holder. I know Sol Teichman is also a wizard at auction archive research.

Aegis3 · December 7, 2009 10:52AM

I vaguelly recalled these in a relatively recent Stack's sale. And so...

Bayard1908 · December 7, 2009 12:12PM

<< <i>I vaguelly recalled these in a relatively recent Stack's sale. And so... >>

Thank you. That's my exact coin. I must have seen the holder in the paper catalog. Thanks again.

coindeuce · December 7, 2009 12:14PM

Any further info on H. Sergl ? Dealer? Collector? Entrepreneur?

Bayard1908 · December 7, 2009 12:21PM

<< <i>Any further info on H. Sergl ? Dealer? Collector? Entrepreneur? >>

Never heard of Hans Sergl before this

coindeuce · December 7, 2009 12:25PM

Great story! Thx for the link. BTW, I think I may have seen a few of those holders come through the establishment where I am employed. I'll backtrack for them.

Pattern collectors, do you recognize this?

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