New Pujols Pick Up..True Authentic Version!
fandango
Posts: 2,622 ✭
As you know, i have a passion for Pujols Cards, and i especially have a passion for This issue, one of the most contreversial Pujols rookie year cards....i have tracked these cards for a while and this auto card may be the least numerous of all Pujols Auots (except Chirography Gold #/5)! possibly less than 20 REAL versions exist.....this is my second copy of the True Auto, a Real Beauty especially for us Die Hard Albert Fans!!!!
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there are 2 real versions for sale right now on ebay, one for $4,999 and the other for $2,450.....
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interesting thing about this evolving story......whoever is signing these blanks is listening and reading the posts about this card....the fakes now being sold (seemingly endless supply) have the Auto on the BOTTOM edge now....at first all the fakes autos were in the Middle of the card (and very poorly done fakes at that)....now they are at least signing the fakes IN THE RIGHT SPOT, but still in a very poor way.....
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there are 2 real versions for sale right now on ebay, one for $4,999 and the other for $2,450.....
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interesting thing about this evolving story......whoever is signing these blanks is listening and reading the posts about this card....the fakes now being sold (seemingly endless supply) have the Auto on the BOTTOM edge now....at first all the fakes autos were in the Middle of the card (and very poorly done fakes at that)....now they are at least signing the fakes IN THE RIGHT SPOT, but still in a very poor way.....
0
Comments
It's sad that Beckett shows a fake version on their hot list.
<< <i>Congrats on the nice pickup.
It's sad that Beckett shows a fake version on their hot list. >>
i know! i almost spit out my coffee when i saw that!
a fool and his $250 are so easily parted apperently....
<< <i>For the non-Pujols auto experts, is there anyway to tell by the serial number which ones are authentic and which ones are fake? >>
good question...answer is no.....
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
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slip out. Not only is this card faked a bunch, but there is NO WAY to know which are real and which are fake, sure you can tell some of the poorly fake
cards, but everything else is speculation. Unless you pulled it yourself, you don't know anything. Lloyd Pawlek could have 50 of these sitting in his living
room and suddenly and release them all, and then suddenly this isn't a rare card.
It seems like there are many fanatical pujols collectors who have this card and need to pump it up, by calling their card "real" and everything else "fake"
real collectors know that anything fleer is questionable unless you pack pulled it yourself.
first, the Auto was a redemption..you got a card in the pack that says "you can keep this card or send it back to us for the Auto version"...confusing from the start
second...the auto cards are not the low numbers cards that some originally believed....there are some authentic cards with high numbers also....
most of the time, donruss for instance, had the first 100 autograhed and the last 900 were not, making a clean break (donruss elite)
this fleer legacy is the only example i can think of where the autographed version are sporadic throughout in this case about 799 total cards...
the next mistake was not destroying the unredemed (unautographed) versions when the redemption expired in 2002....
and the last (and biggest ) mistake was letting these undestroyed/unsigned auto versions) out the door during their bankruptcy.....
what did they think would happen to these "unsigned auto cards" when they "sold" them to the highest (most unscrupulous) bidder...
although Fleer made a series of errors with this issue, it did create a true scarcity (and a very interesting story) going forward!
<< <i>As much as you think you may know about this card, you really don't know it all. The fact is Fleer did not take care of their inventory and allowed many cards to
slip out. Not only is this card faked a bunch, but there is NO WAY to know which are real and which are fake, sure you can tell some of the poorly fake
cards, but everything else is speculation. Unless you pulled it yourself, you don't know anything. Lloyd Pawlek could have 50 of these sitting in his living
room and suddenly and release them all, and then suddenly this isn't a rare card.
It seems like there are many fanatical pujols collectors who have this card and need to pump it up, by calling their card "real" and everything else "fake"
real collectors know that anything fleer is questionable unless you pack pulled it yourself. >>
thats has to be the WORST POST i have read in a while! congrats
Walt ,with disinformation like that, i would think you had a personal interest in this card, especially when it brings you out of "lurking phase---124 posts since 2002"
your not from Michigan are you?
All of those you posted are fakes?
and high #'s...
seems coincidental...
and the one "legit" you have is a low number?
more info please...
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
<< <i>Also, this card was NEVER a problem until AFTER fleer's Bankruptcy....it had nothing to do with PACK PULLED CARDS.....
Walt ,with disinformation like that, i would think you had a personal interest in this card, especially when it brings you out of "lurking phase---124 posts since 2002"
your not from Michigan are you?
Why attact the poster unless I am right? Can you deny that Fleer employees might have plenty of these cards sitting around? There is no way you can tell is
there? Why would anyone collect a card with so much doubt around it? Its obvious you have an agenda here, does calling me misinformed make the
problem go away? You feel big on a message board where people don't know anything about modern cards,but both of us know the truth, you overpaid
for a card that will always be questionable.
the card as pulled in 2001
<< <i>
Why attact the poster unless I am right? Can you deny that Fleer employees might have plenty of these cards sitting around? There is no way you can tell is
there? Why would anyone collect a card with so much doubt around it? Its obvious you have an agenda here, does calling me misinformed make the
problem go away? You feel big on a message board where people don't know anything about modern cards,but both of us know the truth, you overpaid
for a card that will always be questionable. >>
didnt call you misinformed...i said you were spreading (on purpose) DISINFORMATION.....get it straight if your gonna quote me
could you really tell? If I had a regular card and had Albert signed it could I sell it for 4000 bucks and could anyone tell the difference? no one, including
you. Why would anyone want that card?
<< <i>You still haven't answered my question. How can you know that fleer employees don't have a bunch of these? If there were 400 signed instead of 300
could you really tell? If I had a regular card and had Albert signed it could I sell it for 4000 bucks and could anyone tell the difference? no one, including
you. Why would anyone want that card? >>
you make no sense at all....im done addressing you and your disinformation
<< <i>
<< <i>You still haven't answered my question. How can you know that fleer employees don't have a bunch of these? If there were 400 signed instead of 300
could you really tell? If I had a regular card and had Albert signed it could I sell it for 4000 bucks and could anyone tell the difference? no one, including
you. Why would anyone want that card? >>
you make no sense at all....im done addressing you and your disinformation >>
yeah that's the easiest thing to do. LOL enjoy your card!
I really don't collect modern but I find this most curious. Am I correct in saying that Fleer only made 799 of these cards? Meaning that one will not find multple copies of this card unsigned stamped with same number, i.e. 221/799 & 221/799.
If that is correct, then how many of the 799 were signed?
If more were signed than unsigned, then why is the signed considered more rare? & worth more?
Am I just completely off-base here?
faked well, no one will know. The base card lists for 200 dollars, the signed one sells for 2-4 grand. Well worth the effort of forging it right?
I would never trust any of these cards period. Remember fleer sold sheets of autographs from ball players after they went under, it might not apply
to this card, but can you ever trust them, especially not knowing how many of these are out there?
<< <i>Also, this card was NEVER a problem until AFTER fleer's Bankruptcy....it had nothing to do with PACK PULLED CARDS.....
Walt ,with disinformation like that, i would think you had a personal interest in this card, especially when it brings you out of "lurking phase---124 posts since 2002"
your not from Michigan are you?
I have 2 questions,is it your opinion that the above cards are fake?What does being from Michigan have to do with anything?
Thanks,
J.R.
Needs'
1972 Football-9's high#'s
1965 Football-8's
1958 Topps FB-7-8
I'm sure that some of these guys who have thousand's sunk into these signed cards are keeping track of the serial #'s of the unsigned ones. I know that would be. Due to their diligence the price of this card may not be a flucuable (msispell) as some may think. If such actions have not been taken then one would have to assume that a majority of the unsigned have now been signed.
Once again, am I missing the boat?
the regular unsigned version does not say AUTHENTIC AUTOGRAPH in block letters in the background....
you cant take a regular, version forge a sig, and then sell it as the auto version...doesnt work that way
the regualr version and auto version are different looking (barely)
the issue is that most of the cards that say AUTHENTIC AUTOGRAPH are forged, made in 2007.....again this was never an issue until AFTER the bankrupcy, so no bad auto EVER GOT OUT OF FLEER DIRECTLY....
the real auto version are fewer than 40....this is from Pop reports (some fakes were slabbed early on until i stopped them) and from following this issue closely....because of the serial numbering, it is easy to follow....
<< <i>So 499 unsigned and 300 signed. If I had one of the unsigned versions and I were to have Mr. Pujols sign it himself in the same place then I theoritcally just made a few grand?
I'm sure that some of these guys who have thousand's sunk into these signed cards are keeping track of the serial #'s of the unsigned ones. I know that would be. Due to their diligence the price of this card may not be a flucuable (msispell) as some may think. If such actions have not been taken then one would have to assume that a majority of the unsigned have now been signed.
Once again, am I missing the boat? >>
DING DING DING DING DING......and what is worse is that "legit" owners are claiming that the placement of the sig on the card is a basis of wether or not
its real, like Pujols took his time and signed 300 cards all in the same spot! LOL
i want to educate potential Pujols buyers not to get scammed...
I believe this. I would assume that you have a very large collection. How do you tell the difference between the original 300 and the original 499 unsigned?
<< <i>
<< <i>Also, this card was NEVER a problem until AFTER fleer's Bankruptcy....it had nothing to do with PACK PULLED CARDS.....
Walt ,with disinformation like that, i would think you had a personal interest in this card, especially when it brings you out of "lurking phase---124 posts since 2002"
your not from Michigan are you?
I have 2 questions,is it your opinion that the above cards are fake?What does being from Michigan have to do with anything?
Thanks,
J.R. >>
Needs'
1972 Football-9's high#'s
1965 Football-8's
1958 Topps FB-7-8
huh?
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
Steve
<< <i>I'm not in it for the money BUT their is one on ebay right now for $4000.00
Steve
that was to explain how these are truly rare....thus the high price tag found on these...im not selling mine anyway...i dont like when new Pujols collectors get burned with fake autos...that hurts ALL collectors when we lose collectors because of FRAUD....
If there is a definate way to tell the two apart then all of this is a mute point.
<< <i>missing the boat....
the regular unsigned version does not say AUTHENTIC AUTOGRAPH in block letters in the background....
you cant take a regular, version forge a sig, and then sell it as the auto version...doesnt work that way
the regualr version and auto version are different looking (barely)
the issue is that most of the cards that say AUTHENTIC AUTOGRAPH are forged, made in 2007.....again this was never an issue until AFTER the bankrupcy, so no bad auto EVER GOT OUT OF FLEER DIRECTLY....
the real auto version are fewer than 40....this is from Pop reports (some fakes were slabbed early on until i stopped them) and from following this issue closely....because of the serial numbering, it is easy to follow.... >>
As an outsider and neutral observer in this, I admit its a fascinating discussion. But, this is becoming more confusing with each post.
Just to clarify, in 2001, Fleer produced 799 of these cards. 300 were signed (with, according to you, block letters saying "authentic autograph") and 499 were unsigned (without the blocks letters). None of the autos were released in packs, correct? Only the unsigned cards and the redemption cards were released. To get an auto, you had to send in the redemption card, if I understood correctly.
So, all that was left in Fleer's vault at the time of bankruptcy would have been some amount of signed cards (presumably the original amount of 300 less the # of cards redeemed).
My two questions are:
Where is this influx of unsigned cards coming from? It makes sense that those would be distributed randomly around the country and not in the possession of one person.
Are you claiming that in 2007, someone actually used a stamp or printer of some sort to add the block letters "Authentic Autograph" before signing these fake cards? That seems difficult to do. Can you show any good close-up examples of a fake? The picture with nine autos all show the block letters. Are you saying these are fakes? I can't tell the difference.
Are any of the several on Ebay for about $450 fakes?
They all say authentic autograph. Some numbered above 300.
Was the numbering forged also? If so have duplicates of any numbers shown up as in a few other issues?
<< <i>AMAZING TROLLS FOUND ON THIS THREAD:
1 VITAGECARDLOVER.... signed up in september but only posts against Pujols....
2. Hammered...once again a new user who only shows up in Pujols threads
3. Schwatz..upset that his phillies are losing to the Yanks, again trolling this thread....
4 . Dr J..a notorious Fandango Troll and Pujols hater
you four should be banned for advancing Lies and pushing lies...
HOW MANY TIME HAVE YOU THREE NOW INCINUATED THAT PUJOLS DOES NOT SIGN HIS OWN STUFF? 4 threads 5 threads?
its clear you all three have a MAJOR AGENDA against Pujols, your Obvious ALTS of PUJOLS HATERS...
these bad autos are being sold by QUESTIONABLE SELLERS...there is a fraud.....HOW DARE YOU TRY TO ACCUSE PUJOLS OF NOT SIGNING his AUTOS
KEEP ACCUSING PUJOLS OF A CRIME HE DIDNT COMMITT AND SEE WHAT MAY HAPPEN NEXT TO YOU...
you may think your anonomous and tough behind a keyboard but guess what , you have an IP address that can be chased if you are suspected of a crime
so keep spouting lies if you must, i have a printer and some good connections who owe me...... " >>
Yeah, it's nothing personal for Fandango. He's just doing his part to help the hobby
Gonna call in more "favors" on this one, tough guy?
I still would like to know if the 9 pictures are fake or not?Thanks,just trying to get with the program.
J.R.
Needs'
1972 Football-9's high#'s
1965 Football-8's
1958 Topps FB-7-8
<< <i>Yeah, it's nothing personal for Fandango. He's just doing his part to help the hobby
Gonna call in more "favors" on this one, tough guy? >>
Fandago posted that above? Wow.
Do you have a link to that thread? Would love to see that.
Go back to the Beckett boards with your conspiracy theories. You are confusing yourself from post to post and still have yet to put together a plausible explanation for this card after years of private investigation work.
You are fired as the official CU Private Investigator.
I think the answer is yes ?
As a neutral person in this, I will say what I know.
This card was only available through redemption. (Fact)
It's believed not all 300 were actually signed and fullfilled. (Speculation)
The remaining "unsigned" versions with "Authentic autograph" were sold during Fleers bankruptcy. (Fact)
This card has been one of the highest forged "authentic autographed" card in the past 9 years. (Fact)
The picture with the cards that Fandango posted are ALL FAKES. (Fact)
I understand people here have something against Fandango and I could really careless why, but when he provides information supporting his reasons, it's best you either reply with something factual or don't comment at all.
Posting previous comments by him has nothing to do with this thread at all.
Im not calling singling anyone out, but it comes to a point to when a guy knows whats going on with these cards, let him get the information out.
Fleer produced 799 TOTAL cards, all sequentially numbered. Of those 799, 400 were inserted into packs. Those 400 inserted in packs are the "Base" cards, and do NOT have the blocked lettering "Authentic Autograph" at the bottom on the front of the card.
The other 300 that were inserted into packs looked the same as the base cards, but on the back had the information that you were an exchange card winner.
So Fleer had 300 cards at their facility sitting that were serial numbered the same numbers as the Exchange Card, but had the block lettering "Authentic Autograph" on the bottom of the card.
When the deadline passed for the exchange, Pujols signed as many that were redeemed. So if 60, for example, were exchanged then there was still 240 unsigned, with the "Authentic Autograph" lettered cards in their possession. When they went bankrupt, they sold all assets, with those blank unsigned cards among the inventory.
The reason somebody cant take a base card and pass it off as one of the autographed versions is it would be missing the "Authentic Autograph" lettering at the bottom of the card. You also cant take one of the unsigned "Authentic Autograph" cards and just have Pujols sign it because they arent available. They were bought by somebody at the bankruptcy auction, and we already know what they are doing with them; forging the autograph and trying to pass it off as original. At first it wasnt hard to tell which ones that were fake because the autograph was located in the wrong spot; the real ones were signed down low, with the fakes signed more towards the center (like all the ones shown in the picture of 9 before in this thread). The faked autographs also only slightly resembled his signature. The person with the blanks must read certain baseball card forums, because as the info got out on how to tell a real from a fake (location), the fake autographs started showing up in the correct location. They are still not all that hard to tell apart though, because the forger hasnt improved his skills at signing Pujols autograph.
Why thank you kind sir,you have made this alot easier to
understand,very niceThanks again.
J.R.
Needs'
1972 Football-9's high#'s
1965 Football-8's
1958 Topps FB-7-8
It is a beauty, but I wouldn't touch it with a 10ft pole. No point in trying to own a card and then having to prove it is real. Much easier cards to collect.
Eventually the forger will get it right and only fandango will know right from bad. At that point there will be 1/3 good cards, 1/3 bad fakes, and 1/3 good fakes. Who would want to play in that game?
Thank you for finally explaining the entire history of this card. Fandango in his 6+ years of investigation could not put together a coherent description as you have liad out in a single post.
You have now been hired as the official CU Private Invetigator.
<< <i>The forger hasn't figure out how to fool anyone yet. However they have ruined the card for many.
It is a beauty, but I wouldn't touch it with a 10ft pole. No point in trying to own a card and then having to prove it is real. Much easier cards to collect.
Eventually the forger will get it right and only fandango will know right from bad. At that point there will be 1/3 good cards, 1/3 bad fakes, and 1/3 good fakes. Who would want to play in that game? >>
I think its like anything in this hobby, you just have to educate yourself before you buy. With your thinking then you shouldn't be owning an autograph of anybody, ever, unless pack pulled. Fake autographs can be told apart from real ones by people talented and educated on the subject. If you arent one of them, then you pay for the services of those who are, ie: JSA or PSA. Just like fake Star basketball, popular and expensive rookies, T206, and other cards with known fakes, it doesnt make it impossible to collect real copies. You just need to know what to look for. I suspect those saying they wouldn't ever "touch that card" because of the issues, are also the people that wouldnt be interested in owning one anyways, controversy or not.
<< <i>
<< <i>The forger hasn't figure out how to fool anyone yet. However they have ruined the card for many.
It is a beauty, but I wouldn't touch it with a 10ft pole. No point in trying to own a card and then having to prove it is real. Much easier cards to collect.
Eventually the forger will get it right and only fandango will know right from bad. At that point there will be 1/3 good cards, 1/3 bad fakes, and 1/3 good fakes. Who would want to play in that game? >>
I think its like anything in this hobby, you just have to educate yourself before you buy. With your thinking then you shouldn't be owning an autograph of anybody, ever, unless pack pulled. Fake autographs can be told apart from real ones by people talented and educated on the subject. If you arent one of them, then you pay for the services of those who are, ie: JSA or PSA. Just like fake Star basketball, popular and expensive rookies, T206, and other cards with known fakes, it doesnt make it impossible to collect real copies. You just need to know what to look for. I suspect those saying they wouldn't ever "touch that card" because of the issues, are also the people that wouldnt be interested in owning one anyways, controversy or not. >>
Exactly true. I would contribute more, but csmtampa is drinking at the moment.
Steve
Seems it might be safer to buy this card in the non-auto version.
Save on ebay with Big Crumbs
<< <i>...You just need to know what to look for. I suspect those saying they wouldn't ever "touch that card" because of the issues, are also the people that wouldnt be interested in owning one anyways, controversy or not... >>
I don't see why when selecting a Pujols Auto RC to buy for $$$$, that I would want any part of the controversy on that card. When I spend a $4K on a card, I just don't see the point in getting the headache to go with it. While I don't have a problem with Pujols fans caring and defending their cards, as a guy who likes what Pujols is doing, but isn't in love with him just wouldn't grab any of his several auto'd RCs from that year. That and I'd likely save a bunch of cash.