How the heck can PCGS not seal three of five coin from my order. PCGS Adjust you sonic welder!

fcloud · November 28, 2009 11:34AM

It is frustrating waiting for return shipment for what seems like forever, and now I find three of five holders not sealed. Yep, you can open them up easily.

PCGS adjust your sonic welder! Actually these were never welded at all. I think they simply forgot to put them through the process.

Shamika · November 28, 2009 11:38AM

Wow! That's seriously sloppy. Where's quality control?

SilverEagles92 · November 28, 2009 11:39AM

I bet you could get a lot for them from a Chinese buyer.....

Justacommeman · November 28, 2009 11:43AM

Maybe they figured you weren't going to be happy with your grades and they saved you the trouble of cracking them out. Did they have a resubmission form already filled out for you in the package?

MJ

rockdude · November 28, 2009 11:43AM

Here's their final verification process; As a final quality control check, all PCGS graded coins go back to the grading room for review by a "verifying" grader. The verifier carefully examines each coin through its Tamper-evident holder to ensure the integrity of the sealed capsule.
Someone was asleep at the wheel.

LotsoLuck · November 28, 2009 11:45AM

"Maybe they figured you weren't going to be happy with your grades and they saved you the trouble of cracking them out"

Now thats funny

x10

Goldbully · November 28, 2009 11:45AM

I would alert Mr. Willis.
He will not be happy.
Look for shipping and insurance both ways.
Look for a "special voucher."

LotsoLuck · November 28, 2009 11:48AM

PCcoins · November 28, 2009 11:48AM

That's actually really cool!

I wish that's how all pcgs coins were. You can open the slab and remove the coin to hold in hand and when you're done you just put the coin back and close the slab.

SilverEagles92 · November 28, 2009 11:50AM

<< That's actually really cool!

I wish that's how all pcgs coins were. You can open the slab and remove the coin to hold in hand and when you're done you just put the coin back and close the slab. >>

Can you imagine the ramifications?!

lkeigwin · November 28, 2009 11:51AM

Wow! That's some photo. What could the verifying grader possibly have been doing? <ahem>

Heads will roll when Don sees this...if the thread doesn't go "oops, my bad" <poof>
Lance.

fcloud · November 28, 2009 11:51AM

<< That's actually really cool!

I wish that's how all pcgs coins were. You can open the slab and remove the coin to hold in hand and when you're done you just put the coin back and close the slab. >>

The problem with that is unscrupulous people could change out the coin, or just sell the empty shells.

fcloud · November 28, 2009 11:52AM

<< Wow! That's some photo. What could the verifying grader possibly have been doing? <ahem>

Heads will roll when Don sees this...if the thread doesn't go "oops, my bad" <poof>
Lance. >>

Why would they "poof" the thread?

Bochiman · November 28, 2009 11:56AM

<< "Maybe they figured you weren't going to be happy with your grades and they saved you the trouble of cracking them out"

Now thats funny

x10 >>

Ouch! I have to admit, I feel for Tony but, that was pretty damn funny

Tony, make sure when you talk to them (Monday? If not before if Don or David see this thread) that you ask them to cover all costs of shipping to/from you.
QA issues like this shouldn't cost the submitter anything.

Bochiman · November 28, 2009 11:58AM

<< 

<< Wow! That's some photo. What could the verifying grader possibly have been doing? <ahem>

Heads will roll when Don sees this...if the thread doesn't go "oops, my bad" <poof>
Lance. >>

Why would they "poof" the thread? >>

I doubt they will as long as no one starts PCGS crapping in the thread (you haven't, and I am not talking about your posts on this).
It's a "simple" QA gone bad type of thing. Sucks, but it does happen. Someone new, someone in a hurry, etc. Not indictative of PCGS as a whole.

now, coins weren't hurt, right? And, did they grade as you thought?

lkeigwin · November 28, 2009 12:01PM

<< 

<< Wow! That's some photo. What could the verifying grader possibly have been doing? <ahem>

Heads will roll when Don sees this...if the thread doesn't go "oops, my bad" <poof>
Lance. >>

Why would they "poof" the thread? >>

Because it's pretty damned embarrassing.

I have no doubt PCGS would take care of you and the situation. It's an honest shop, IMO. We're all human and can make mistakes. Still, this kind of error suggests a serious quality control failure and we are talking about a business that processes $millions in rare coins every day.
Lance.

Bear · November 28, 2009 12:04PM

The thread will not go poof, but someone is going

to get an A$$ chewing at the factory for

sure.This is the first time I

have heard of such an oversight, in all my years on

the Forum.

fcloud · November 28, 2009 12:05PM

<< The thread will not go poof, but someone is going

to get an A$$ chewing for sure.This is the first time I

have heard of such an oversight, in all my years on

the Forum. >>

Bear, you need a jelly donut!

Bear · November 28, 2009 12:07PM

I always need a jelly donut.

OffMetal · November 28, 2009 12:09PM

It could have been worse...

Edited to add:

Actually, having holders shipped like that could be extremely dangerous. If in the wrong hands, the fakes could get a lot better

Justacommeman · November 28, 2009 12:11PM

<< The thread will not go poof, but someone is going

to get an A$$ chewing at the factory for

sure.This is the first time I

have heard of such an oversight, in all my years on

the Forum. >>

HRH may nail these pieces to the packing room wall.

MJ

Justacommeman · November 28, 2009 12:14PM

and the number one excuse given from the "sealing dept" to HRH and DW on how this happened----

The welder ran out of sonic!

leothelyon · November 28, 2009 12:15PM

This is like one of those, "if they're not doing this, are they doing that?", kind of thing. Nothing to get really worried about here folks. Please keepn moving along.

Leo

lkeigwin · November 28, 2009 12:18PM

A typo on the label, or a mis-orientation in the holder, is nothing compared to an unsealed slab.

I don't know poop about what goes on inside PCGS, but if I had to guess I'd say guards with Glocks watch their holders and certs. <jk>
Lance.

illini420 · November 28, 2009 12:25PM

I can understand the occasional typo on a label. But how does this or the backwards label posted above EVER get past the quality control finalizer graders who double check the coins before being mailed out???

Bochiman · November 28, 2009 12:26PM

<< The thread will not go poof, but someone is going

to get an A$$ chewing at the factory for

sure.This is the first time I

have heard of such an oversight, in all my years on

the Forum. >>

There was one before, that I remember well, and another I kind of recall.
The first one I mention above had a go about telling PCGS exactly what they should do in this area, I believe.
Member is banned here now but posts on the ngcboards. I don't think he was banned for his thread about the sonic sealing, though that thread got dicey about insulting PCGS.

SilverEagles92 · November 28, 2009 12:27PM

<< I can understand the occasional typo on a label. But how does this or the backwards label posted above EVER get past the quality control finalizer graders who double check the coins before being mailed out??? >>

Hundreds and hundreds of coins a day... even if they're 99.99% accurate (which I'm sure they aren't), that means a few slip through.

tydye · November 28, 2009 12:27PM

A few years ago I received a graded coin but without its slab. At first I thought it was a body bag but after reviewing the paperwork realized that it did grade. They took it back no problem and fixed it

WoodenJefferson · November 28, 2009 12:29PM

Comedian Ron White said the certified mechanic must have missed "lug nut" day when he wheeled out of a major companies automotive shop and the wheel just fell off...same thing must have happened here, the certified sealer missed "sonic seal" day.

Bochiman · November 28, 2009 12:29PM

<< I can understand the occasional typo on a label. But how does this or the backwards label posted above EVER get past the quality control finalizer graders who double check the coins before being mailed out??? >>

I'm guessing it is because no one tries to separate the pieces before packaging.

So, coin gets graded, placed in unsealed tabs, person gets distracted or machine just doesn't do its job, coin get stacked, packed, and sent.
I don't think they were "loose" when shipped, but either because loose or were separatable when Tony got them and used his mighty strength to separate the pieces.

illini420 · November 28, 2009 12:30PM

<< 

<< I can understand the occasional typo on a label. But how does this or the backwards label posted above EVER get past the quality control finalizer graders who double check the coins before being mailed out??? >>

Hundreds and hundreds of coins a day... even if they're 99.99% accurate (which I'm sure they aren't), that means a few slip through. >>

But even if thousands a day, even a rookie finalizer should be able to see if the cert is in backwards and catch it 100% of the time. I would think the same about the sonic sealing. and to see 3 of 5 in the same order slip through seems to significantly defy the odds of even 99.999%

coindeuce · November 28, 2009 12:30PM

Maybe a couple Secret Service agents were in training for White House duty?

fcloud · November 28, 2009 12:32PM

<< Maybe a couple Secret Service agents were in training for White House duty?

>>

lkeigwin · November 28, 2009 12:32PM

<< Hundreds and hundreds of coins a day... even if they're 99.99% accurate (which I'm sure they aren't), that means a few slip through. >>

Recheck your math. 99.99% accurate means one error in 10,000.
Lance.

Shamika · November 28, 2009 12:33PM

<< 

<< The thread will not go poof, but someone is going

to get an A$$ chewing at the factory for

sure.This is the first time I

have heard of such an oversight, in all my years on

the Forum. >>

There was one before, that I remember well, and another I kind of recall. >>

I've seen one as well that has not been mentioned on this board.

rld14 · November 28, 2009 12:36PM

Ouch.

I'm sure they make mistakes... I once saw a BB'd PCGS coin in a holder, seen it in NGC holders too.

magikbilly · November 28, 2009 12:38PM

<<<< That's actually really cool!

I wish that's how all pcgs coins were. You can open the slab and remove the coin to hold in hand and when you're done you just put the coin back and close the slab. >>

Can you imagine the ramifications?!>>

Hi,

Yeah, we'd be back to where I started when I was little in the early 1970's. Flips with handwritten grades, coins you could hold and perhaps more collectors who grade well.

Eric

Type2 · November 28, 2009 12:38PM

ClosedLoop · November 28, 2009 1:48PM

sorry Mr. Willis, I needed the outlet to charge my iPod.

sinin1 · November 28, 2009 1:56PM

what you gonna do?

will superglue work?

astrorat · November 28, 2009 2:01PM

<< It could have been worse...

>>

Oooh...I want that one!

Lane

SilverEagles92 · November 28, 2009 2:04PM

<< 

<< Hundreds and hundreds of coins a day... even if they're 99.99% accurate (which I'm sure they aren't), that means a few slip through. >>

Recheck your math. 99.99% accurate means one error in 10,000.
Lance. >>

I realize that. I didn't mean that a few slip through each day, simply that there will be errors.

HKstrongside · November 28, 2009 2:38PM

Mistakes happen, it's how they respond that makes the difference. I hope they take care of you. I would worry about the coin being damaged with all that sloshing around.

lkeigwin · November 28, 2009 2:40PM

<< 

<< 

<< Hundreds and hundreds of coins a day... even if they're 99.99% accurate (which I'm sure they aren't), that means a few slip through. >>

Recheck your math. 99.99% accurate means one error in 10,000.
Lance. >>

I realize that. I didn't mean that a few slip through each day, simply that there will be errors. >>

Sorry...I didn't mean to offend. You are right, Chad. Mistakes will happen. I just figure this isn't like getting the wrong change at Burger King, you know?
Lance.

Shamika · November 28, 2009 2:41PM

<< 

<< 

<< Hundreds and hundreds of coins a day... even if they're 99.99% accurate (which I'm sure they aren't), that means a few slip through. >>

Recheck your math. 99.99% accurate means one error in 10,000.
Lance. >>

I realize that. I didn't mean that a few slip through each day, simply that there will be errors. >>

True, but 3 out of 5 in this shipment is more than a "slip through". It suggests the whole QC sequence was circumvented. And the only reason we know this is because the sonic welder wasn't working properly AND that fcloud checked his slabs carefully.

What if the sonic welder had instead been working properly? Clearly we would never have known that the finalizer hadn't done his job. I wonder how many slabs go unchecked?

notwilight · November 28, 2009 6:39PM

It is enlightening to see how many people here think that human based processes can be made error free with simple QC or QA [SIC].
BTW, if anyone here is capable of perfecting such a system, I guarantee them instant wealth, perhaps Gatesesque wealth as this would be the greatest advance in modern industry, almost certainly Nobel prize worthy. --Jerry

Boom · November 28, 2009 7:09PM

This is NO mistake! The individual on PCGS' payroll whose resposibility it is to ensure this does not take place obviously is not doing his or her job.

This is downright embarassing to the PCGS name and as Bear alluded to, someone is in line for a serious A$$ chewing, if not worse!

No excuse in the world is good enough for such blatant irresponsibility!

Bottom line - someone is NOT performing the job for which they are being paid.

I'm confident President Don Willis and CEO David Hall, though rightfully embarassed, will be happy that this was brought to their collective attentions.

Somebody is liable to be looking for a job come Monday morning. This is TOTALLY unacceptable and beckons the question, "What else is going on during the process"!?

INCREDIBLE!

mumu · November 28, 2009 7:30PM

<< It is enlightening to see how many people here think that human based processes can be made error free with simple QC or QA [SIC].
BTW, if anyone here is capable of perfecting such a system, I guarantee them instant wealth, perhaps Gatesesque wealth as this would be the greatest advance in modern industry, almost certainly Nobel prize worthy. --Jerry >>

I'll settle for a 2 quart packet of grape flavored.

notwilight · November 28, 2009 7:39PM

<< This is NO mistake! The individual on PCGS' payroll whose resposibility it is to ensure this does not take place obviously is not doing his or her job.

This is downright embarassing to the PCGS name and as Bear alluded to, someone is in line for a serious A$$ chewing, if not worse!

No excuse in the world is good enough for such blatant irresponsibility!

Bottom line - someone is NOT performing the job for which they are being paid.

I'm confident President Don Willis and CEO David Hall, though rightfully embarassed, will be happy that this was brought to their collective attentions.

Somebody is liable to be looking for a job come Monday morning. This is TOTALLY unacceptable and beckons the question, "What else is going on during the process"!?

INCREDIBLE!

>>

So do I hear 10 sigma? 12 sigma? 42 sigma?

PerryHall · November 28, 2009 10:16PM

<< I bet you could get a lot for them from a Chinese buyer.....

>>

Sell them on eBay!!!

lusterlover · November 28, 2009 11:07PM

what day were these slabbed (usually the day they post your grades)? this probably happened to others as well I'd think if the machine wasn't working...

How the heck can PCGS not seal three of five coin from my order. PCGS Adjust you sonic welder!

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