Poll: Would you consider Die Marriage the same thing as Die Variety?
BECOKA
Posts: 16,961 ✭✭✭
Just curious how different folks interperet these terms.
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Which would distinquish it from a Die Marraige...
Much along the lines of the example brought up by mozin...
Take Obv Die A and Rev Die A
begin minting
this is a die marraige
then take Obv Die A and make an alteration/modification to it
continue minting
this is now a die variety
now take Obv Die A/modified and marry it to Rev Die B
this is now a die marraige
then take Rev die B and make an alteration
we now have another die variety...
at least that is my take on the terms...FWIW
Die marriages are when a unique obverse die and a unique reverse die are used to create a coin or multiple coins. Each coin struck by this combination of dies is called a "Die Marriage"
A die variety is a particular distinct variation from the norm that collectors choose to collect (or that they have been trained to collect, by some authority such as the Red book or Cherrypickers Guide).
A die variety can include multiple die marriages or only a single die marriage. Or, in some cases, there are multiple die varieties that are the same die marriage, as in Mozin's example.
So, the answer is no, they are not the same thing, even though many people continually confuse the two and say one when they mean the other. Such are the nuances of numismatics...
QN
Go to Early United States Coins - to order the New "Early United States Half Dollar Vol. 1 / 1794-1807" book or the 1st new Bust Quarter book!
<< <i>The answer is simple...
Die marriages are when a unique obverse die and a unique reverse die are used to create a coin or multiple coins. Each coin struck by this combination of dies is called a "Die Marriage"
A die variety is a particular distinct variation from the norm that collectors choose to collect (or that they have been trained to collect, by some authority such as the Red book or Cherrypickers Guide).
A die variety can include multiple die marriages or only a single die marriage. Or, in some cases, there are multiple die varieties that are the same die marriage, as in Mozin's example.
So, the answer is no, they are not the same thing, even though many people continually confuse the two and say one when they mean the other. Such are the nuances of numismatics...
QN >>
Exactly.
when Obv Die A modified is joined with Rev Die B it is a new die marraige but also a continuation of the die variety begun in the 1st die marraige?
<< <i>so, Quarternut... if I now understand it properly... in keeping with my rudimentary example...
When Obv Die A modified is joined with Rev Die B it is a new die marraige, but also a continuation of the die variety begun in the 1st die marraige? >>
Maybe...
I will give you an example of a confusing occurrence in the Bust Quarter series. (There are a couple of other examples in other denominations at the same time period as well)
In 1805, Obverse 4 and Reverse C were paired together to create the Browning-4 Die marriage. There is currently no particular die "variety" that this die marriage created, other than what I termed the "Large Stars Reverse" in my recent book on the subject. However, I doubt few collectors collect it due to that. It is however, an example of a Draped Bust type.
Due to a lack of die steel (or perhaps due to Robert Scot’s ability to create dies fast enough), this exact same pair of dies were used again in 1806. However, the obverse die was heated up and a 6 was punched over the 5, then the die was re-annealed and hardened.
When this obverse die was modified and then used in conjunction with the same reverse C, it created both a new die marriage and a new die variety. The die marriage is the 1806 Browning-1 and the die variety is the 1806/5 over-date variety. (Although this was a new die marriage, I still labeled the obverse die as #4 and the reverse die as C.)
Only because the obverse die was over-dated, did it become both a new marriage and a new variety. This is a somewhat rare occurrence in coinage and normally does not happen. Most coin dies that are over-dated are done so on dies that have not been previously used.
If the mint had used Obverse 4 coupled with a different reverse than Reverse C, it still would have become both a new marriage and a new variety. If however, after striking the 1806 B-1 die marriage with Obv-4 & Rev-C, they had paired it with a different reverse to create a new die marriage (we’ll call it B-11, as there are currently 10 die marriages known), then both of the die marriages that use the Obverse that is over-dated would be the same “variety”.
Sounds confusing doesn’t it!?
QN
Go to Early United States Coins - to order the New "Early United States Half Dollar Vol. 1 / 1794-1807" book or the 1st new Bust Quarter book!