Ebay question -- raw cards for sale

richtree · November 19, 2009 2:06AM

Hey guys,

What do you do when someone ask you your opinion about the card(s) you have up for auction.

One buyer keeps asking me, "What do I think the card will grade?"

I think it will grade an 8, with shot at 9, but I am apprehensive to say this because if it comes back a 7, I don't want the buyer furious at me.

I have provided him with high - quality scans of the card. He is hinting that he wants one that will grade a 9.

I can't guarantee that, and I have responded with scans and saying the cards well-centered and no major flaws.

Is there anything else I could or should do ?

thanks for answering in advance

-rt

SidneyBeans · November 19, 2009 2:23AM

Your response: "In my opinion this card looks to be at least an "8"" or "I think this card is an 8 with an outside shot of a 9." -- better to underestimate than overestimate.

metsfan · November 19, 2009 2:26AM

<< Hey guys,

What do you do when someone ask you your opinion about the card(s) you have up for auction.

One buyer keeps asking me, "What do I think the card will grade?"

I think it will grade an 8, with shot at 9, but I am apprehensive to say this because if it comes back a 7, I don't want the buyer furious at me.

I have provided him with high - quality scans of the card. He is hinting that he wants one that will grade a 9.

I can't guarantee that, and I have responded with scans and saying the cards well-centered and no major flaws.

Is there anything else I could or should do ?

thanks for answering in advance

-rt >>

Wouldn't guarantee anything, this can only get you in trouble. You can mention you think its near mint, but your not a grader. Would say its best to undergrade your cards, this way your safe.

richtree · November 19, 2009 3:00AM

<< Your response: "In my opinion this card looks to be at least an "8"" or "I think this card is an 8 with an outside shot of a 9." -- better to underestimate than overestimate. >>

I didn't say anything like that to potenial buyer. I think they are 8's but I have seen 8's come back as 6's....

So , I don't know if its even good to underestimate? Is it?

itzagoner · November 19, 2009 3:02AM

do NOT get into numbers debates, it will only cause headaches.....if they want a 9, they should BUY a 9.

SidneyBeans · November 19, 2009 3:16AM

Tough call. If you underestimate your card too much then you lose a higher bid which it sounds like you believe this card merits. If the buyer is reasonable, a "Looks to be 8" statement indicates to them that you feel strong about the card but are not guaranteeing it would grade as such. If the buyer is that adamant on a grade they should not be buying raw.

mcolney1 · November 19, 2009 3:29AM

Use photobucket and supply a large clear picture of the card's front and back. I give general descriptions of the card as NM, EX-MT, but do not provide what I think it would grade with a TPG - that's just asking for trouble. So far so good in that I've sold lots of raw cards on ebay and haven't had any complaints about the description - crossing fingers here so I don't jinx myself.

To see a sample size of my listing picture look at a few closed ebay auctions from last week - seller ID mcolney - 1962 Unitas, 1962 Brown, 1958 Unitas to see a few. Have received strong positive feedback on all these transaction.

VintageCardLover · November 19, 2009 3:45AM

dont make promises you cant keep.

divecchia · November 19, 2009 3:51AM

<< do NOT get into numbers debates, it will only cause headaches.....if they want a 9, they should BUY a 9. >>

I agree 100%. Do not give number grades. It will only become a problem.

Donato

digicat · November 19, 2009 3:51AM

Just don't don't say something stupid like some sellers do. A while back, I asked a seller if there was any creases or wrinkles that weren't showing up on the scan. He said:

"I am not a professional grader, and therefore, I do not have the qualifications to render an opinion as to the condition of this card. Please see the scan I have provided to come to your own conclusion."

SidneyBeans · November 19, 2009 4:16AM

<< I give general descriptions of the card as NM, EX-MT, but do not provide what I think it would grade with a TPG >>

------Isn't saying a card is "EX-MT" the same as saying "Looks to be a 6"??

richtree · November 19, 2009 4:18AM

thanks, basically Thats what I said.

So, here is a good question.

Is there any program that is best for high quality scans?

I usually scan into "PAINT" but limited options.

Should I windex the scanner ?

Anything I can do to give buyers the best possible scan ? ? ?

storm888 · November 19, 2009 4:46AM

Any speculative assignment of a numerical grade will almost
always guarantee an EBAY/PayPal problem, down the road.

...........

If you feel compelled to engage in a non-beneficial conversation
with buyers like the one described, simply tell them to buy a card
that has already been graded a 9. If they collect raw-cards, they
can easily bust the card out of the slab.

...........................

EBAY prohibits the assignment of number-grades to raw coins;
giving some cover for sellers to refuse to have "number" chats
with AH buyers. A similar rule should be put in place for cards.

SidneyBeans · November 19, 2009 5:07AM

Storm, ------I just don't see the difference in calling a card "EX-MT" or a "6" (they are interchangeable, no?). When PSA sends a card back it comes with a number & condition descriptor: "EX-MT 6" and therefore if you sell a card as "EX-MT" and it comes back "EX 5" wouldn't you be in the same boat with paypal? In short, why is giving a number to the card any different than assigning a descriptor (and by descriptor I mean "EX-MT", perhaps my vocab is off).

storm888 · November 19, 2009 6:21AM

<< Storm, ------I just don't see the difference in calling a card "EX-MT" or a "6" (they are interchangeable, no?). When PSA sends a card back it comes with a number & condition descriptor: "EX-MT 6" and therefore if you sell a card as "EX-MT" and it comes back "EX 5" wouldn't you be in the same boat with paypal? In short, why is giving a number to the card any different than assigning a descriptor (and by descriptor I mean "EX-MT", perhaps my vocab is off). >>

///////////////////////////

Sounds pretty logical.

There prolly is no material difference between using a number
and the grading term.

IMV, both are a mistake.

If the scans are good, a simple:

"The Cards Appear Nice and Fresh As Noted In The Scans"

is as far as I would wanna go with an EBAY buyer.

........................

The challenge is that there is no PayPal acceptable way to differentiate
between my "opinion" of the condition AND the opinion of the grading
company standards that the buyer has in his mind when he asks the
question or reads the description.

"I am not a professional grader," is amateur nonsense and it cuts no
ice with EBAY/PayPal. It constitutes a disallowed disclaimer. The seller
is responsible to "know" the condition, AND any attempt to describe it
needs to be accurate.

Since such "accuracy" requires a prediction of what PSA will think of
the card, the prediction will always be the same as a WAG. It might
be right more often that not, but when it is not the buyer can complain.

.............

The coin rap:

Raw and uncertified coins

A raw or uncertified coin is defined as any coin not graded by one of the authorized grading companies. Sellers can list these items on eBay as long as:

A numeric grade is not included in the title of the listing, such as MS-65, VF-25, etc. A numeric grade may only be included in the description of the listing.

The grading company or price guide is not referenced in the title or description.

A dollar value (even if personal opinion) is not included in the title or description.

The listing includes a photo of the coin with the appropriate markings. Images that are dark, out of focus, edited, or otherwise deemed misleading are not permitted. Stock photos aren’t permitted.

............

It appears that the current iteration of the rule has nothing to do with
confusing/misleading buyers. Obviously, it is designed to keep search
returns cleaner.

WinPitcher · November 19, 2009 9:04AM

Bean

The difference is when you say it is a 6 you are implying it will grade a 6 at a TPG.

When you say the card appears Ex/MNT you are simply giving your opinion as to the condition of the card.

IMO they are 2 different statements.

Steve

SidneyBeans · November 19, 2009 9:12AM

Ahh, I hate to beat a dead horse but to me saying a card appears EX-MT vs. appears a "6" are the same thing. On TPGs slabs both "6" and "EX-MT" appear on the label so I don't see how one is more risky than the other. Thanks.

WinPitcher · November 19, 2009 9:18AM

On TPGs slabs both "6" and "EX-MT"

Exactly, that is where the difference is.

Let me explain it this way, before pro grading people had to describe a card, right? well one would say ex. never back in the day would they say 5.

Of course one could say today it appears to be a 5 and then state, but who knows what a pro grader would say?

Just because someone claims a card is ex he/she is not claiming it will grade a 5 unless of course they make that statement.

Steve

WinPitcher · November 19, 2009 9:19AM

Back on topic, Rich I would simply tell this buyer that I could NOT guarantee what someone else would grade the card at.

I might tell him what I thought it was, but never could I guarantee what someone else would grade it.

Steve

hookem · November 19, 2009 9:29AM

Tell him it is a PRO 10 or even a GEM 10

SidneyBeans · November 19, 2009 9:48AM

I guess I'm missing something here. Today, "EXCELLENT" or "EX" are both technical grading terms just as a "5" is--both are supposed to meet certain requirements by the major grading services and both are INTERCHANGEABLE, no?

So, if on eBay you describe a card as appearing to be "EXCELLENT" or appearing to be a "5" you are taking an equal risk that the card, if submitted, could come back as less. As I stated, the flip on PSA and other co.'s have a number and grade level. Thus, if you describe a card as "EXCELLENT" and it comes back from PSA 4 VG-EX, in theory the buyer could file a claim saying your "EXCELLENT" card came back "VG-EX."

stown · November 19, 2009 9:59AM

I would say something along the lines of:

"The card appears to have great eye appeal with no major flaws (if there are flaws, disclose them). I'm not a professional grader, so please carefully review the scans. If you would like additional scans, please feel free to contact me."

Scan the highest quality possible, of both sides, and post them in the auction.

fkw · November 19, 2009 10:00AM

I always just tell those guys..... The card is guaranteed to grade (SGC/PSA), Period!

Meaning it is not altered, fake, etc.

SidneyBeans · November 19, 2009 10:06AM

I'm not a professional grader----------This one always scares me. Sounds like the seller is creating a loophole so when their EX-MT card comes in the mail with back wrinkle and pen mark, they can throw their hands up and say "Well, told you I wasn't a professional grader!"

PSASAP · November 19, 2009 10:08AM

I've seen dealers who will guarantee that a card will grade without coming back min. size or EOT, or anything else that would prevent it from being slabbed. To me, that seems to be a reasonable safeguard against buying a doctored card. As far as coming up with a numerical grade, that is totally out of your control.

storm888 · November 19, 2009 10:47AM

<< I'm not a professional grader----------This one always scares me. Sounds like the seller is creating a loophole so when their EX-MT card comes in the mail with back wrinkle and pen mark, they can throw their hands up and say "Well, told you I wasn't a professional grader!" >>

//////////////////

While most folks who use that phrase are not scammers,
many scammers will use that phrase.

.......

The use of the phrase does NOT let a seller off the hook
in a PayPal SNAD-claim.

ymarea · November 19, 2009 11:00AM

I find a potential buyer asking a seller's opinion on what a card might grade a little humorous. The question implies that the potential buyer wants to submit the card. In all likelyhood, such a person would have some prior experience with TPG's. Anyone who submits cards should know better than to ask that question since submission outcomes are very unpredictable.

I agree with those who say, "If you want a 9, then buy a graded 9." How does one say that tactifully, without sounding like a jerk?

I've been asked the "grade" question only once, back when I first began selling on eBay. I was not too familiar with TPG's at that time and was naive about grading. I gave a numerical answer. Luckily it worked out, but I'll not do that again!

stown · November 19, 2009 11:04AM

<< 

<< I'm not a professional grader----------This one always scares me. Sounds like the seller is creating a loophole so when their EX-MT card comes in the mail with back wrinkle and pen mark, they can throw their hands up and say "Well, told you I wasn't a professional grader!" >>

//////////////////

While most folks who use that phrase are not scammers,
many scammers will use that phrase.

.......

The use of the phrase does NOT let a seller off the hook
in a PayPal SNAD-claim. >>

Storm - Hence the reason why I said not to give a value (be it numerical or classification).

Say your not a professional grader, disclose any and ALL flaws, post high res photos, and offer additional assistance.

If a potential buyer sees that as a scam, then they have serious issues and probably aren't worth dealing with in the first place.

Win, win.

storm888 · November 19, 2009 12:45PM

"...If a potential buyer sees that as a scam, then they have serious issues and probably aren't worth dealing with in the first place..."

//////////////////////////////////////

There might be merit in that.

But, I would be unlikely to buy anything I was not desperate
for from a seller who used the "I am not a grader" pitch.

The phrase has simply been used to death by bad boys who
wrongly think they are covering themselves with PayPal.

Ebay question -- raw cards for sale

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