<< <i>NGC knows full and well that the coin was never cleaned. Bastages. >>
I dunno, I could see one of these being used as a pocket piece at least occasionally (and under very guarded conditions!) -- and that it might have been wiped or dipped to remove some schmutz. >>
The government already wants to figure out how much they might be worth. Either way, it's a matter of time now.
Congrats to the Langboards.
Steve
U.S. Air Force Security Forces Retired
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
<< <i> If it was done without their knowledge or consent, that is quite presumptuous on the part of the government. >>
I noticed that there is a Smithsonian logo in the lower right corner of the holders. Another US Gov't presumption? >>
Where do you see a Smithsonian logo on the 1933 $20 holders? >>
On the lower right of the holder, there is a small translucent circle with the Smithsonian "sun" logo in it.
>>
I still don't see it. TD >>
Well, it was there before -- now you can see a white area where the logo was photoshopped out. I will speculate a little -- MAYBE a settlement is close at hand, and the settlement has the Langboards donating the finest specimen(s) to the Smithsonian (hence the logo on the holder), while the rest are kept by the Langboards or auctioned, or both, with certain of the auction proceeds used to indemnify the owner of the Fenton coin. It will certainly be very interesting how this plays out.
Maybe the finest specimen will go to the Fenton buyer in a trade as part of a settlement. They would then own the Pop 1/0 coin. That seems like a logical beginning to a solution if these 10 come to market. It does smell like a settlement is in the air, but you never know what turns this soap opera will take next.
Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
How could NGC certify that as a 1933 $20 when it was never issued? They should have labeled it "Chattel of 1933 $20 Design."
If you adjust the curves of the slab image so that the white slab background is mapped to a large dynamic range, you can see where there picture may have been adjusted in the form of a "seam" in the continuity of the color, but that's it.
<< <i>How could NGC certify that as a 1933 $20 when it was never issued? They should have labeled it "Chattel of 1933 $20 Design."
If you adjust the curves of the slab image so that the white slab background is mapped to a large dynamic range, you can see where there picture may have been adjusted in the form of a "seam" in the continuity of the color, but that's it.
>>
Hey, I saw what I saw!
The logo was translucent, and had a "sun" shape like this:
Maybe the Smithsonian Institute did the photography and added their logo to the pic.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Since when has the Smithsonian ever slabbed anything in its collection? >>
NGC conserved and slabbed many of the SI's major rarities pro bono. The slab label described the coin but didn't include a grade.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
NGC talked about photographing the coins to document die marriages. Given there were quite a large number of these coins produced before they were melted, have distinct die marriages been identified from the existing 13 coins?
Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
<< <i>An analysis based on multiple mint sources from 1933-34 suggests that 34 were unaccounted for and that 12 remain "at large." The work will be published in 2010, after additional corroboration is collected. >>
Some of the 12 "at large" pieces will likely surface once the Langboard suit is settled. I would think any settlement would address what happens when the "at-large" coin do indeed surface.
<< <i>How could NGC certify that as a 1933 $20 when it was never issued? They should have labeled it "Chattel of 1933 $20 Design."
If you adjust the curves of the slab image so that the white slab background is mapped to a large dynamic range, you can see where there picture may have been adjusted in the form of a "seam" in the continuity of the color, but that's it.
>>
Hey, I saw what I saw!
The logo was translucent, and had a "sun" shape like this:
>>
The pictures in the NGC press release show no such Smithsonian logo. TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i> The pictures in the NGC press release show no such Smithsonian logo. TD >>
Right -- it was there and was subsequently removed. A little birdie across the street informed me that the Smithsonian was not involved, so the logo was whited out.
<< <i>Right -- it was there and was subsequently removed. A little birdie across the street informed me that the Smithsonian was not involved, so the logo was whited out. >>
<< <i>This is the LAST gold coin the United States made. The last one. Gold would never again be currency. No more gold coins. This gold coin was even struck when the economy was in a terrible state.
Feelings of loss. Tears welling up. Remorse. >>
Technicalities: It was the last non-commemorative gold coin the US produced. As far as the currency part, only a small fraction of the Saints produced ever circulated, as far as I know.
What about the one and four pound Saudi disks??????
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>Technicalities: It was the last non-commemorative gold coin the US produced. >>
What about the AGE's produced since 1986?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Did anyone notice that NGC pulled any reference to the 1933 saints off their website? At least I can't seem to find it anywhere on their site. >>
That IS strange.........
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Here is my latest GUESS. This thread will be pulled by PCGS very soon & the NGC slabbing of the 10 Langboard coins will NOT be reported in Coin World and Numismatic News. Freedom of the Press lives. JMHO. Steve
Well, the story came out after Coin World had already been put to bed for this week. I do not know what Numismatic News' deadline is. However, I am sure that both will carry the story in the fullness of time.
That said, I wonder if the government lawyers fighting to steal the COINS from the Langbord's did not know about the slabbing before the fact, and if when they did find out about it the fecal file hit the proverbial rotary air propulsion device. The general concensus here seemed to me to imply that the certification helped the Langbord's case. When the lawyers found out, they may have demanded that all reference to the slabbing be put down Mr. Orwell's Memory Hole.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>Did anyone notice that NGC pulled any reference to the 1933 saints off their website? At least I can't seem to find it anywhere on their site. >>
<< <i>Did anyone notice that NGC pulled any reference to the 1933 saints off their website? At least I can't seem to find it anywhere on their site. >>
<< <i>Did anyone notice that NGC pulled any reference to the 1933 saints off their website? At least I can't seem to find it anywhere on their site. >>
That IS strange......... >>
Wow, very interesting. >>
Actually, they just moved it to a differnt place on the website:
Oh, darn........ a perfectly good conspiracy theory shot to heck!!!!! LOL!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I think the condition of the coins could be used as evidence that they were never circulated, notice how they mention one though was used as a pocket piece.
The question is who used it as a pocket piece, something so valuable. Maybe someone knowing they would be the only person alive to ever actually carry one as pocket change.
I cannot find the story on NGC even with the new link.
PNG member, numismatic dealer since 1965. Operates a retail store, also has exhibited at over 1000 shows. I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
I viewed all 10 at the Denver ANA show a couple of years ago. I don't seem to remember one of them looking as though it had been a pocket piece. Maybe one of the G-men has been carrying it around for awhile.
Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
One coin clearly had been either carried or used. The pictures confirm that.
PNG member, numismatic dealer since 1965. Operates a retail store, also has exhibited at over 1000 shows. I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
I am informed that the story was pulled at the request of a government official of higher rank than the person who gave NGC the OK to publicize it.
Don't ask for details.
Capt. Henway
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>I am informed that the story was pulled at the request of a government official of higher rank than the person who gave NGC the OK to publicize it.
<< <i>I am informed that the story was pulled at the request of a government official of higher rank than the person who gave NGC the OK to publicize it.
Yeah -- the government "requesting" that it be pulled. Guess it couldn't have been ordered or forced, since that would seem to run counter to the First Amendment, would it not? Right.
<< <i>Here is my latest GUESS. This thread will be pulled by PCGS very soon & the NGC slabbing of the 10 Langboard coins will NOT be reported in Coin World and Numismatic News. Freedom of the Press lives. JMHO. Steve >>
So the above GUESS is again operative. This is such a great country. Steve
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>NGC knows full and well that the coin was never cleaned. Bastages. >>
I dunno, I could see one of these being used as a pocket piece at least occasionally (and under very guarded conditions!) -- and that it might have been wiped or dipped to remove some schmutz. >>
Time to crackout and resubmit.
The government already wants to figure out how much they might be worth. Either way, it's a matter of time now.
Congrats to the Langboards.
Steve
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> If it was done without their knowledge or consent, that is quite presumptuous on the part of the government. >>
I noticed that there is a Smithsonian logo in the lower right corner of the holders. Another US Gov't presumption? >>
Where do you see a Smithsonian logo on the 1933 $20 holders? >>
On the lower right of the holder, there is a small translucent circle with the Smithsonian "sun" logo in it.
I still don't see it.
TD >>
Well, it was there before -- now you can see a white area where the logo was photoshopped out. I will speculate a little -- MAYBE a settlement is close at hand, and the settlement has the Langboards donating the finest specimen(s) to the Smithsonian (hence the logo on the holder), while the rest are kept by the Langboards or auctioned, or both, with certain of the auction proceeds used to indemnify the owner of the Fenton coin. It will certainly be very interesting how this plays out.
Coin Rarities Online
If you adjust the curves of the slab image so that the white slab background is mapped to a large dynamic range, you can see where there picture may have been adjusted in the form of a "seam" in the continuity of the color, but that's it.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>Having these coins slabbed seems like a very strange move on the part of the government. Something is in the works. >>
I can't imagine why they would do this unless there was a plan in the works to bring some or all of them into the market eventually.
<< <i>How could NGC certify that as a 1933 $20 when it was never issued? They should have labeled it "Chattel of 1933 $20 Design."
If you adjust the curves of the slab image so that the white slab background is mapped to a large dynamic range, you can see where there picture may have been adjusted in the form of a "seam" in the continuity of the color, but that's it.
Hey, I saw what I saw!
The logo was translucent, and had a "sun" shape like this:
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Since when has the Smithsonian ever slabbed anything in its collection? >>
NGC conserved and slabbed many of the SI's major rarities pro bono. The slab label described the coin but didn't include a grade.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>An analysis based on multiple mint sources from 1933-34 suggests that 34 were unaccounted for and that 12 remain "at large." The work will be published in 2010, after additional corroboration is collected. >>
Some of the 12 "at large" pieces will likely surface once the Langboard suit is settled. I would think any settlement would address what happens when the "at-large" coin do indeed surface.
<< <i>
<< <i>How could NGC certify that as a 1933 $20 when it was never issued? They should have labeled it "Chattel of 1933 $20 Design."
If you adjust the curves of the slab image so that the white slab background is mapped to a large dynamic range, you can see where there picture may have been adjusted in the form of a "seam" in the continuity of the color, but that's it.
Hey, I saw what I saw!
The logo was translucent, and had a "sun" shape like this:
The pictures in the NGC press release show no such Smithsonian logo.
TD
<< <i>
The pictures in the NGC press release show no such Smithsonian logo.
TD >>
Right -- it was there and was subsequently removed. A little birdie across the street informed me that the Smithsonian was not involved, so the logo was whited out.
<< <i>Right -- it was there and was subsequently removed. A little birdie across the street informed me that the Smithsonian was not involved, so the logo was whited out. >>
Why was it there in the first place?
<< <i>This is the LAST gold coin the United States made. The last one. Gold would never again be currency.
No more gold coins.
This gold coin was even struck when the economy was in a terrible state.
Feelings of loss.
Tears welling up.
Remorse. >>
Technicalities: It was the last non-commemorative gold coin the US produced. As far as the currency part, only
a small fraction of the Saints produced ever circulated, as far as I know.
<< <i>Technicalities: It was the last non-commemorative gold coin the US produced. >>
What about the AGE's produced since 1986?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Checking this thread again,............... and it has broken through 100 quite nicely. >>
Now we need some more meat to try for 200.
<< <i>
<< <i>Technicalities: It was the last non-commemorative gold coin the US produced. >>
What about the AGE's produced since 1986? >>
True, I don't pay much attention to gold bullion coins, so they slipped my mind...
<< <i>Did anyone notice that NGC pulled any reference to the 1933 saints off their website? At least I can't seem to find it anywhere on their site. >>
That IS strange.........
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
I do not know what Numismatic News' deadline is.
However, I am sure that both will carry the story in the fullness of time.
That said, I wonder if the government lawyers fighting to steal the COINS from the Langbord's did not know about the slabbing before the fact, and if when they did find out about it the fecal file hit the proverbial rotary air propulsion device. The general concensus here seemed to me to imply that the certification helped the Langbord's case. When the lawyers found out, they may have demanded that all reference to the slabbing be put down Mr. Orwell's Memory Hole.
TD
<< <i>
<< <i>Did anyone notice that NGC pulled any reference to the 1933 saints off their website? At least I can't seem to find it anywhere on their site. >>
That IS strange.........
Wow, very interesting.
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>Did anyone notice that NGC pulled any reference to the 1933 saints off their website? At least I can't seem to find it anywhere on their site. >>
A 1933 Saint cache, and an NCG cache.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Did anyone notice that NGC pulled any reference to the 1933 saints off their website? At least I can't seem to find it anywhere on their site. >>
That IS strange.........
Wow, very interesting. >>
Actually, they just moved it to a differnt place on the website:
New Langboard Saint Link
a perfectly good conspiracy theory shot to heck!!!!!
LOL!
The question is who used it as a pocket piece, something so valuable. Maybe someone knowing they would be the only person alive to ever actually carry one as pocket change.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
<< <i>I cannot find the story on NGC even with the new link. >>
Looks like they yanked it again.
<< <i>Connecticoin, partypooper! Haven't you learned we don't care about truthfullness, just a juicy story?
Well it's gone again -- so we can again speculate as to why it was yanked.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
Don't ask for details.
Capt. Henway
<< <i>I am informed that the story was pulled at the request of a government official of higher rank than the person who gave NGC the OK to publicize it.
Don't ask for details.
Capt. Henway >>
Why not, iquiring minds want to know.
<< <i>Why not, iquiring minds want to know.
Because then he'd have to kill you.
<< <i>I am informed that the story was pulled at the request of a government official of higher rank than the person who gave NGC the OK to publicize it.
Don't ask for details.
Capt. Henway >>
Interesting.
<< <i>Interesting. >>
Yeah -- the government "requesting" that it be pulled. Guess it couldn't have been ordered or forced, since that would seem to run counter to the First Amendment, would it not? Right.
<< <i>Here is my latest GUESS. This thread will be pulled by PCGS very soon & the NGC slabbing of the 10 Langboard coins will NOT be reported in Coin World and Numismatic News. Freedom of the Press lives. JMHO. Steve
So the above GUESS is again operative. This is such a great country. Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry