Is it just me, or are more sellers not accepting returns on eBay items?

STONE · November 1, 2009 5:31AM

In the last 2-3 months I've noticed that a greater % of sellers (maybe 25% or more), and their items, will not accept a return on the item.
This makes me hesitate to bid higher because I might end up with a coin that I don't really like due to poor imaging and/or the coin may have a problem not seen in the image.
Therefore I'm leary to make bids strong enough to win these coins (often raw), and not take the risk of receiving a problem-coin.

What are your thoughts on this matter, and have you seen a similar trend from sellers as of late?

jessewvu · November 1, 2009 5:38AM

As a seller, I have a blanket no return policy. If there were a problem, I would gladly replace/refund any item. People often buy impulsively on eBay and blanket return policies allow for some of that behavior to continue at the sellers expense. I haven't had a problem yet, and only a few items over the past 6 years returned. If a buyer is worried a seller is ripping him off or trying to pull one over on him/her, a return policy usually doesn't bring any additional $$ in the auction. A great reputation makes up for that. I am sure there are arguments on both sides....

edited to add:
As a buyer, I don't look at a sellers return policy to decide if I want to bid on or buy a coin. If the item is not as described, that's a different story.

LindeDad · November 1, 2009 5:52AM

It is a product of the changes that eBay put into the listing programs and the change in insurance also.
Many of the defaults are messed up IMO and with PayPal being required most every item is returnalbe wither the sellers want to take them or not.
And as a side note maybe you need to limit your bidding to those RAW coins that do have good images.
I know that I set my own limit long ago on how much I would spend on a RAW coin on eBay and it has paid dividends over time.

ctf_error_coins · November 1, 2009 6:10AM

Here is my take on it ...

These are auctions and the highest bidder wins. If a bidding was erupts, it is not the sellers fault.

An auction is an auction and not a retail store.

Now if there is a error in the listing, well that is different and should be returned.

I do not accept return, but wonder if I should because they can get their money back anyway with a paypal claim or CC chargeback.

I guess it is the principal of the thing as I believe an auction is an auction

Anyway,, Feedback and the "As described" stars are way more important.

pennyannie · November 1, 2009 6:24AM

I does not matter what the seller says, anything is returnable on ebay. While i do not agree with that statement, that is the way it is.

If a buyer buys an item for 500 dollars and claims it was not as described and the seller has ZERO dollars in his account do you get your money back if you paid with money in your paypal account? Transfer from your bank account? With Credit card?

19Lyds · November 1, 2009 6:25AM

I though that a return policy was mandatory anymore of eBay!

MsMorrisine · November 1, 2009 6:28AM

It is mandantory in the sense that one has to specify up front what the return policy is... none, few days, several dayes,...

But, I, too, have noticed more and more people are specifying "no returns."

my guess is that the "no returns" stigma is going going gone and more sellers are opting to have "no returns".

tbarreca · November 1, 2009 6:41AM

I don't know whether the number of sellers who do not accept returns is increasing or not, but I certainly believe that one is well-advised to observe some limits or constraints on what one buys there, especially, as has been noted by others, with respect to raw coins. For example, although they come up reasonably frequently, I would be extremely hesitant to purchase an 1893-S Morgan dollar on the Bay. It's very hard to ascertain legitimacy from online pictures unless the seller knows exactly what to show and how (you need a closeup of Liberty to ensure that there's the diagonal die crack in the crossbar of the 'T').

The most I have personally spent on an EBay coin was over $700 for an 1856-S Seated dime. Although the coin was obviously dug up and rinsed off, and a little scuffed, its details grade looked pretty high from the pic, and it didn't appeared to be dipped, whizzed, etc. And it's a pretty tough date with these details.

In this case, it felt a bit risky, but I figured that if I was right about the coin, it was a good deal, and even if I was wrong, it most likely would be reasonable one. It was a little nerve-wracking because this was a case where no returns were accepted.

Here's a pic, but it's a bit over-exposed and too light. The coin looks considerably darker in hand:

Bottom line: It's a case-by-case decision, and the operative slogan, is "Caveat emptor!"

sonoranmonsoon · November 1, 2009 6:46AM

Sellers that do not have a good return policy are taking a big risk. A few negative dings to their star rating and they could loose fee discounts and positioning. A few more dings and they could loose the right to sell all together. If you want to sell on ebay these days, you better please the customer in every way or prepare to sell elsewhere.

derryb · November 1, 2009 6:48AM

Most sellers that have a no return policy realize that if the buyer is not happy it is in the seller's best interest to accept the return anyway. Most seller's just don't advertise returns.

notwilight · November 1, 2009 6:51AM

Ebay recently changed the rules that all listings must have a return policy. Those who were silent before now have to make a choice. Those of us who do take returns probably always said it. Those who don't may have been more likely to be silent on the issue.

Also, with the new ebay mentality all slanted toward the buyer, sellers are getting burned and changing their policies. --Jerry

Bear · November 1, 2009 6:51AM

I have noticed that more sales of PCGS or NGC slabbed coins

are listed as no returns. In those cases, regardless of how much

I like the coin from the picture, I will pass 100% of the time. Further,

since I have never given less then a most favorable comment for a dealer,

I will no longer leave my comment before the dealer leaves their comment.

I paypal within hours of winning a bid and I will not be coerced into leaving a

comment first..

highbidder1970 · November 1, 2009 7:07AM

Ebays mandatory return policy is backed up by paypal. So some idiot ebay seller saying he does not accept returns seems like a senseless statement to me.

I don't care what the guys supposed return policy is. If I don't like an item it is my right to return it and most assuredly if he trys to jerk me around I will neg him and open up a paypal dispute.

Don't buy from ebay sellers who don't offer a return priveledge!

JCMhouston · November 1, 2009 7:27AM

If it's a dealer I expect the same retunr policy as I would get from their regular web site. Hoever if it's Joe Schmoe then I can fully understand having a no return policy. Way to many people treat auctions as if they have some mythical "right" to only receive something better than what they paid for, and I am not discussing problem coins here. Personally if I was selling a TPG'd coin I would not offer a return policy, if you disagree with the TPG's grade then take it up with them. If I was selling a raw coin I would offer a return policy, but that's just me, I certainly would not feel it was my right to get an automatic return policy.

Let's face it, a lot of us on the forums claim to be able to grade better than the TPG's, or have higher standards then the TPG's, and so wind up not being satisfied with half of what we buy. My suggestion for people in this category is to only buy sight seen, otherwise you are just wasting everyones time and that doesn't do any good at all. Come on, someone the other day was returing over half their Lincoln sets to the mint because the pennies weren't all straight.

mrpotatoheadd · November 1, 2009 7:28AM

eBay's mandatory return policy:

Sellers are required to specify a return policy when listing an item on eBay. This is the case even if the seller's policy is to not accept returns.

eBay's listing page says:

Return policy

We now require that all sellers specify whether they accept returns or not.

Select One
-Returns Accepted
-Returns Not Accepted

au58 · November 1, 2009 7:33AM

It's an auction, not a retail sale.
Bid accordingly.

STONE · November 1, 2009 7:38AM

<< It's an auction, not a retail sale.
Bid accordingly. >>

BIN's and eBay stores don't necessarily constitute auctions!

mr1931S · November 1, 2009 8:08AM

People often buy impulsively on eBay and blanket return policies allow for some of that behavior to continue at the sellers expense.

This is the reason why I usually indicate "no return" on my auction items.This is the KISS principle in action.

I could say,"This is not an approval service" while indicating that returns are accepted except for coins taken out of the tamper evident holder that I sent it in,rolls,parts of sets,etc.This message would be mostly lost on the vast majority of people who might be looking at my auction,however.

My recommendation to anyone who is interested in my auction item with "no return" is to email me and express their concerns.

JaPa · November 1, 2009 8:24AM

Take returns, don't take returns is, as previously indicated, unimportant when I bid on an item. If it is not as stated or questionable then all I do is call up my handy dandy CC company and put the charge in dispute if the seller will not refund my money. I allow returns but as stated it really doesn't matter if I do or do not if the buyer wants to push the issue. Having said all that I am using ebay less and less for over a year now.

bestday · November 1, 2009 9:05AM

folks.. no return means less bidding..= less sales price

CaptHenway · November 1, 2009 9:14AM

Since eBay gutted the feedback system, there are just too mmany liars and thieves buying stuff and then claiming non-receipt or some other booshwah.

STONE · November 1, 2009 9:16AM

<< Since eBay gutted the feedback system, there are just too mmany liars and thieves buying stuff and then claiming non-receipt or some other booshwah. >>

Valid, and disappointing that it's the case.

I wonder if it would be more profitable/cost effective to host a basic, but professional looking, website to sell your coins.

mrpotatoheadd · November 1, 2009 9:17AM

There are legitimate reasons a seller might prefer to not accept returns. If you can't think of any, it's only because you haven't tried hard enough. Or have never sold much of anything on eBay yourself.

MMR · November 1, 2009 10:04AM

highbidder1970 please give me your eBay ID so that I can be sure you do not bid on any of my auctions.

leothelyon · November 1, 2009 10:49AM

<< highbidder1970 please give me your eBay ID so that I can be sure you do not bid on any of my auctions. >>

Why do you feel that way, sir?

Back to the topic; The problem with serious buyers/coin collectors, they don't really care how anyone has graded a coin. Whether it be a certified XF or a MS67, if the coin doesn't meet their standards or what they're looking for in a coin, then it usualy gets returned. And the underlying problem to that has everything to do with the semantics of grading coins and the lack of trust thereof.

Leo

ctf_error_coins · November 1, 2009 11:06AM

<< I wonder if it would be more profitable/cost effective to host a basic, but professional looking, website to sell your coins. >>

I just did exactly that.

But I will still use ebay and then give buyers a link to my site

cmerlo1 · November 1, 2009 11:07AM

I still offer a return policy. After over 600 transactions, I had my first one the other day. It was for a 1972 DDO-3 Lincoln. The buyer wasn't aware there were multiple doubled-dies for that year (although I described the coin in detail), and returned it saying he wanted DDO-1. He left positive feedback anyway, and returned the coin promptly. I guess I should consider myself lucky!

Loki · November 1, 2009 11:07AM

I offer a no questions asked return policy and I hardly ever get returns and usually do very well in no-reserve auctions.
I think people are making mountains out of molehills here.
Unless you are selling pos coins why not offer a return policy?

Kaelasdad · November 1, 2009 11:26AM

I sell mostly slabbed coins or coins in a mint sealed holder. My policy is returns accepted if item is not exactly as described. As others have noted, its not an approval service. And seriously, if a coin is graded and slabbed by PCGS and the slab has never left the blue box, so its not all acratched up--why wouldnt you bid or buy it, even if the policy is no returns if not as described--thats just silly.

The holier than thou attitude sounds good until you become the seller and several people send stuff back with buyers remorse, expecting you to cover all shipping fees, and associated fees not covered by the return.

highbidder1970 · November 1, 2009 12:01PM

<< highbidder1970 please give me your eBay ID so that I can be sure you do not bid on any of my auctions. >>

Whats wrong you can't compete with those of us who do offer returns?

mrpotatoheadd · November 1, 2009 12:13PM

<< Unless you are selling pos coins why not offer a return policy? >>

Some people sell bullion related items. Why should they accept returns, just because the price of gold/silver dropped after the sale?

CoinCrazyPA · November 1, 2009 1:27PM

<< Ebays mandatory return policy is backed up by paypal. So some idiot ebay seller saying he does not accept returns seems like a senseless statement to me.

I don't care what the guys supposed return policy is. If I don't like an item it is my right to return it and most assuredly if he trys to jerk me around I will neg him and open up a paypal dispute.

Don't buy from ebay sellers who don't offer a return priveledge! >>

What is your ebay name so I can block you, you sound like pain in the a**.

CoinCrazyPA · November 1, 2009 1:29PM

<< 

<< highbidder1970 please give me your eBay ID so that I can be sure you do not bid on any of my auctions. >>

You beat me to it

Loki · November 1, 2009 1:31PM

<< Some people sell bullion related items. Why should they accept returns, just because the price of gold/silver dropped after the sale? >>

Some sellers call a fractional buffalo gold coin that sells for > 10x melt "bullion" and state no returns on "bullion" coins which is ridiculous.

Also, if it is a common bullion coin, how much really does the price
of bullion change in the week or so return grace period to warrant having a no return policy just for that reason?

coinpictures · November 1, 2009 1:33PM

Well, regardless of what some people are stating, if you accept PayPal, you are in effect offering a 45-day return privilege regardless of what you state in your listings on eBay.

eBay may allow you to state "no returns" but this means nothing to PayPal. If someone buys something from you on eBay, they can do a chargeback for SNAD (significantly not as described) for 45 days, and SNAD can be something as simple as "I don't like the color."

Buyers and sellers alike would suffer much less angst if they realized that anything (that isn't consumed or modified by the buyer) is returnable for any reason.

Sorry, but it's true.

Loki · November 1, 2009 1:46PM

<< The holier than thou attitude sounds good until you become the seller and several people send stuff back with buyers remorse, expecting you to cover all shipping fees, and associated fees not covered by the return. >>

Again in reality that just does not happen. People don't buy your coin just so they want to return it. Sure u run into a lookie lou who wants say a 70 coin in a 69 holder but those are very very few and far between, plus I state in my auctions that if I find you returning a coin for really no valid reason it is in my judgement to block you from further bidding on my auctions.

mrpotatoheadd · November 1, 2009 1:48PM

<< Also, if it is a common bullion coin, how much really does the price
of bullion change in the week or so return grace period to warrant having a no return policy just for that reason? >>

I don't know- that's the seller's business, and his choice to make.

If a seller says "no returns" in his listings, I'd think the proper thing to do if you expect to have the option of returning something you're not satisfied with would be to not bid/buy from that seller.

Loki · November 1, 2009 1:51PM

<< Buyers and sellers alike would suffer much less angst if they realized that anything (that isn't consumed or modified by the buyer) is returnable for any reason. >>

I strongly agree. Well said.

prudden1 · November 1, 2009 2:25PM

<< It is a product of the changes that eBay put into the listing programs and the change in insurance also.
Many of the defaults are messed up IMO and with PayPal being required most every item is returnalbe wither the sellers want to take them or not.
And as a side note maybe you need to limit your bidding to those RAW coins that do have good images.
I know that I set my own limit long ago on how much I would spend on a RAW coin on eBay and it has paid dividends over time.

>>

This is what I was told.An EbayPaypal seller must accept returns according to their policy.

thisnamztaken · November 1, 2009 4:15PM

<< 

<< Ebays mandatory return policy is backed up by paypal. So some idiot ebay seller saying he does not accept returns seems like a senseless statement to me.

I don't care what the guys supposed return policy is. If I don't like an item it is my right to return it and most assuredly if he trys to jerk me around I will neg him and open up a paypal dispute.

Don't buy from ebay sellers who don't offer a return priveledge! >>

What is your ebay name so I can block you, you sound like pain in the a**. >>

I agree totally with you, CoinCrazy.

And it's easy to tell that highbidder1970 has never, or seldom been a seller himself on eBay.

boucharda · November 1, 2009 9:07PM

I have been selling coins on Ebay only for the last 2 years or so. In that time (maybe 500 or so auctions) I have had 3 returns...one raw Morgan that was borderline cleaned (probably agree), one PF 69 RP ASE that had milk spots that I missed (agree), and one graded Morgan because the reverse " had something going on" (disagreed).

I got positive feedback in all 3 situations because I accepted the returns. A happy customer is a return customer.

I can't say I would spend over $50 with a no return policy in place. It sets the adversarial tone right from the get go.

Is it just me, or are more sellers not accepting returns on eBay items?

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