Paypal wants to put a 20 day hold on my money

stev32k · October 26, 2009 8:02AM

First time this has ever happened to me and I wonder if it is a common event. I sold a gold coin on ebay for $1,300. The customer paid immediately via paypal but paypal informed me that the payment was "under review" and the funds were on hold pending review. Today they released the payment, but informed me that they were putting a 20 day hold on the money until they were satisfied that the buyer was satisfied. I just completed a different transaction for more money and nothing like this happened so I really don't understand the reasoning here.

I'm temped to contact the buyer and tell him I am refunding his payment and ask him to send a money order. Anyone else run into this situation?

291fifth · October 26, 2009 8:06AM

The buyer has paid you. Don't make your problem his.

Wolf359 · October 26, 2009 8:08AM

<< First time this has ever happened to me and I wonder if it is a common event. I sold a gold coin on ebay for $1,300. The customer paid immediately via paypal but paypal informed me that the payment was "under review" and the funds were on hold pending review. Today they released the payment, but informed me that they were putting a 20 day hold on the money until they were satisfied that the buyer was satisfied. I just completed a different transaction for more money and nothing like this happened so I really don't understand the reasoning here.

I'm temped to contact the buyer and tell him I am refunding his payment and ask him to send a money order. Anyone else run into this situation? >>

This is crap on PayPal's part. I'd refund it and ask the buyer to send me a money order.

Wolf359 · October 26, 2009 8:09AM

<< The buyer has paid you. Don't make your problem his. >>

The buyer choose Paypal. It is the Buyer's problem.

InternetJunky · October 26, 2009 8:10AM

Things like this is why I never have and never will use PayPal. Money Orders are much easier and hassle free.

lope208 · October 26, 2009 8:12AM

This happened to me once on a $1700 coin.
Obviously I was upset because I sold it for the cash.

There isn't much you can do though. It's not the buyers
problem.

If I recall correctly, the conditions it gives you for the hold
say the funds will be released earlier than the 20 days upon
proof of delivery, or upon positive feedback left by the buyer.

So make sure you add tracking info to the paypal transaction
and you should see your money a little sooner.

Wolf359 · October 26, 2009 8:16AM

<< This happened to me once on a $1700 coin.
Obviously I was upset because I sold it for the cash.

There isn't much you can do though. It's not the buyers
problem.

If I recall correctly, the conditions it gives you for the hold
say the funds will be released earlier than the 20 days upon
proof of delivery, or upon positive feedback left by the buyer.

So make sure you add tracking info to the paypal transaction
and you should see your money a little sooner. >>

I appreciate that, but this is still America. If you don't have the money, the buyer hasn't paid.

PayPal can go hang itself if they want to hold my money and interfere with my business.

lope208 · October 26, 2009 8:19AM

<< 

I appreciate that, but this is still America. If you don't have the money, the buyer hasn't paid.

PayPal can go hang itself if they want to hold my money and interfere with my business. >>

I hear you. Believe me, I was very hesitant to send out the coin without having any money for it.
So I definitely sent it Registered & Insured.

Come to think of it, I haven't used Paypal or Ebay since that crap happened to me almost a year ago now.

GrumpyEd · October 26, 2009 8:20AM

<< The buyer has paid you. Don't make your problem his. >>

Agree! You accepted paypals terms when you sold it. Get confirmation and don't get the buyer that already paid upset because of paypals terms.

notwilight · October 26, 2009 8:31AM

They don't want to, they did. This is their new thing to protect buyers from the scum sellers that took the money and ran in the past. So if you think you'll be selling something on ebay in the future, you have to take electronic payment. I think you can opt out of paypal if you're set up to take credit cards. Otherwise, sell a few cheap things to build a reputation so you don't get the money held on the expensive things. --jerry

derryb · October 26, 2009 8:35AM

This is done to all accounts with little seller feedback. It's paypal's way of making sure the buyer and paypal don't get ripped off. Remember, Paypal has guaranteed refund to the seller in the event that they buy from a thief. Paypal is taking precautions to protect themselves. They also do it periodically to established accounts, especially with high dollar items. It's just another layer of security paypal has added and is a price for doing business on ebay. It's money in the bank, just not at your disposal yet.

You probaly won't have to wait the 20 days. Normally, you will have your funds released after the buyer posts positive feedback or after the item has been delivered. When you use paypal postage the tracking number is automatically added in your ebay summary under the item (you may have to edit your preferences). If you don't use paypal on-line shipping labels you can manually add the tracking number in your summary under the item sold. Having this tracking number added in your summary does two things: (1) the buyer can see it and (2) paypal can use it to know your item was delivered.

With high dollar items such as yours you probably went to the post office to ship. Hopefully you also purchased signature confirmation (I purchase the electronic return receipt instead, it's cheaper, does the same thing and requires no forms). Just make sure you manually add the tracking number to your item sold in your summary. If your funds haven't automatically been released a day or two after you get positive feedback or after tracking shows item delivered, call paypal with the info and they will release the funds.

About on-line tracking and seller protection:

For items under $250 ebay requires delivery confirmation. This is included with all paypal purchased shipping lables and is available at the counter if you pay for shipping at the post office. For items over $250 paypal requires a way that they can access and view the actual signature on-line of the person that received the item. If purchasing postage on-line just check the "signature confirmation" block. If purchasing postage at the PO, two choices. (1) Fill out a signature confirmation label and pay for it at the counter or, (2) purchase electronic return receipt (no label required) at the counter. Either way paypal can use the tracking number for this to actually view the receiver's signature on line in the event of a dispute. For items shipped express (this helps you get quicker feedback/release of funds if you are a new seller that is having funds held by paypal), electronic return receipt is not available because the Express tracking number will provide the required on-line view of the signature.

Edited to add: What this policy of holding funds means to you as a buyer paying by paypal --- Low feedback sellers are your safest bet!

ziggy29 · October 26, 2009 8:38AM

<< 

<< The buyer has paid you. Don't make your problem his. >>

Agree! You accepted paypals terms when you sold it. Get confirmation and don't get the buyer that already paid upset because of paypals terms. >>

Yep. If it really chaps your hide you can ASK the buyer and offer to knock a few bucks off the price with a money order -- but if they don't want to do it, then you should honor the terms -- and the buyer has paid.

291fifth · October 26, 2009 8:47AM

<< 

<< The buyer has paid you. Don't make your problem his. >>

The buyer choose Paypal. It is the Buyer's problem. >>

No, it isn't. He paid per the sale description.

coindeuce · October 26, 2009 8:52AM

Dealer Tom Becker was just recently ripped off by a deal where he shipped a 100 oz. silver ingot to a new customer who paid by Paypal. The buyer shipped a brick(clay) back to him and filed a SNAD claim with Paypal. Paypal refunded the money before Becker got the return package, and when Becker contacted Paypal, they basically told him he needed a signed corroborating statement that he in fact had shipped a 100 oz. .999 silver ingot. In other words, they told him to pound sand....

notwilight · October 26, 2009 8:55AM

<< Dealer Tom Becker was just recently ripped off by a deal where he shipped a 100 oz. silver ingot to a new customer who paid by Paypal. The buyer shipped a brick(clay) back to him and filed a SNAD claim with Paypal. Paypal refunded the money before Becker got the return package, and when Becker contacted Paypal, they basically told him he needed a signed corroborating statement that he in fact had shipped a 100 oz. .999 silver ingot. In other words, they told him to pound sand....

>>

I often have a friend or neighbor over chatting with me while I package things to ship....

stev32k · October 26, 2009 9:03AM

<< Dealer Tom Becker was just recently ripped off by a deal where he shipped a 100 oz. silver ingot to a new customer who paid by Paypal. The buyer shipped a brick(clay) back to him and filed a SNAD claim with Paypal. Paypal refunded the money before Becker got the return package, and when Becker contacted Paypal, they basically told him he needed a signed corroborating statement that he in fact had shipped a 100 oz. .999 silver ingot. In other words, they told him to pound sand....

>>

I hope he contacted both the Post master general and the FBI. Sounds like mail fraud and interstate commerce felonies.

derryb · October 26, 2009 9:05AM

<< Dealer Tom Becker was just recently ripped off by a deal where he shipped a 100 oz. silver ingot to a new customer who paid by Paypal. The buyer shipped a brick(clay) back to him and filed a SNAD claim with Paypal. Paypal refunded the money before Becker got the return package, and when Becker contacted Paypal, they basically told him he needed a signed corroborating statement that he in fact had shipped a 100 oz. .999 silver ingot. In other words, they told him to pound sand....

>>

got an ebay user name for that buyer?

coin22lover · October 26, 2009 9:07AM

It's not done to protect the buyer; it's done to protect Paypal's bottom line. period.

BTW, was this a non-ebay transaction?

coindeuce · October 26, 2009 9:08AM

Don't know if it was an eBay transaction. It did however directly involve Paypal, as related by the seller, via a broadcast on the C.C.E.

Wolf359 · October 26, 2009 9:11AM

<< 

<< 

<< The buyer has paid you. Don't make your problem his. >>

The buyer choose Paypal. It is the Buyer's problem. >>

No, it isn't. He paid per the sale description. >>

The seller does not have the money. HELLO, HELLO. HELLO.

stev32k · October 26, 2009 9:14AM

<< 

<< 

<< The buyer has paid you. Don't make your problem his. >>

The buyer choose Paypal. It is the Buyer's problem. >>

No, it isn't. He paid per the sale description. >>

Can anyone pay with anything except Paypal? I mentioned in the description that I would accept personal checks or money orders and ebay would not accept the listing. They said I had included unacceptable (something similar) payment methods. I had to delete everything except paypal.

Boom · October 26, 2009 9:16AM

I got somethin' PayPuttie can hold, LOL!

MikeInFL · October 26, 2009 9:20AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< The buyer has paid you. Don't make your problem his. >>

The buyer choose Paypal. It is the Buyer's problem. >>

No, it isn't. He paid per the sale description. >>

The seller does not have the money. HELLO, HELLO. HELLO. >>

But he knowingly accepted PayPal as payment, and shipped the item.

The OP is correct, and the seller's recourse is with PayPal, not the buyer who completed their end of the bargain.

coindeuce · October 26, 2009 9:34AM

I've lost count of how many times this has been explained here, but here goes again:
Paypig has told you that they will hold your money for up to 20 days. What they don't tell you is that even with an item of this level of value, all you have to do is show proof of delivery, and they are obligated to release the funds to you upon receipt of that proof. As long as you have followed the PayPig terms of service for the required method of shipping and tracking, you will be covered even in the event that a nefarious buyer makes a SNAD claim.

JupitarCoins · October 26, 2009 9:40AM

Paypig

stev32k · October 26, 2009 9:45AM

<< I've lost count of how many times this has been explained here, but here goes again:
Paypig has told you that they will hold your money for up to 20 days. What they don't tell you is that even with an item of this level of value, all you have to do is show proof of delivery, and they are obligated to release the funds to you upon receipt of that proof. As long as you have followed the PayPig terms of service for the required method of shipping and tracking, you will be covered even in the event that a nefarious buyer makes a SNAD claim. >>

Just what is "SNAD" "Send the national army down" I have no idea what you are taking about.

jmski52 · October 26, 2009 9:48AM

Come to think of it, I haven't used Paypal or Ebay since that crap happened to me almost a year ago now.

Can anyone pay with anything except Paypal? I mentioned in the description that I would accept personal checks or money orders and ebay would not accept the listing. They said I had included unacceptable (something similar) payment methods. I had to delete everything except paypal.

I stopped selling on ebay cold turkey 1 year ago because of this paypal requirement. What a bunch of bs. Nothing has really changed, has it? All this jumping through hoops with showing proof of delivery, etc...

After ebay fees and paypal fees and shipping & insurance costs, can anyone give me a sum total of the percentage that comes off the top for any given sale? Is it over 10% or 15% yet? Just curious.

Wolf359 · October 26, 2009 9:49AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< The buyer has paid you. Don't make your problem his. >>

The buyer choose Paypal. It is the Buyer's problem. >>

No, it isn't. He paid per the sale description. >>

Can anyone pay with anything except Paypal? I mentioned in the description that I would accept personal checks or money orders and ebay would not accept the listing. They said I had included unacceptable (something similar) payment methods. I had to delete everything except paypal. >>

You can put all that (how to pay) in the invoice to the buyer when the auction closes. Please set your own terms and conditions and don't bend
over like some in this thread want you to. It's your money, your business, and not somebody elses rules. Trust paypal or an unknown buyer? NO....

Boom · October 26, 2009 9:50AM

And sellers - when ya think there's even a CHANCE some lowlife buyer is gonna send ya a Brick - open the box in front of witnesses, including the carrier while using the Cam-corder.

It will then be buyer's Happy Ace Syndrome.

One more smart ace wise guy NAILED and getting nailed on a regular basis - BEHIND BARS!!

CoinJunkie · October 26, 2009 9:57AM

<< Just what is "SNAD" "Send the national army down" I have no idea what you are taking about. >>

SNAD = Significantly not as described

In other words, the seller said "mint" and it was run over by a truck, etc.

coindeuce · October 26, 2009 9:59AM

"Just what is "SNAD" "Send the national army down" I have no idea what you are taking about."

SNAD is an acronym for Significantly not as described, which is one of the reasons that PayPig accepts from a buyer for making a claim to recover funds. A SNAD claim requires that a buyer return the item to the seller by the PayPig proscribed method, however many nefarious eBay scammers have found various loopholes in the process for getting their funds returned and keeping the merchandise. Sometimes law enforcement catches up to them, sometimes they don't.

stev32k · October 26, 2009 10:10AM

It gets even more interesting - I just received this email from paypal
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A review of recent transactions indicates that you might have received a payment that the PayPal account holder did not authorize.

To protect you from problematic transactions, we sometimes request additional information about PayPal payments.

We need more information about this transaction. Please log in to your PayPal account, click the "Resolution Center"tab, and provide more information by 11/2/2009.

We recommend that you not ship the item until our investigation is complete. If you've already shipped the item, please log in and let us know where you shipped it.

We have placed a temporary hold on the funds until we complete our investigation.

If you need to provide information by fax, click and print a cover sheet:
https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_complaint_resolve_tracking_fax&cid=PP-817-318-022.

Please fax proof of shipment or proof of refund to 402-537-5760.
Thank you for your cooperation.

Thanks,

PayPal
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Two hours ago they wanted me to ship the coin and send them the proof of delivery. Wish they would make up their minds.

coindeuce · October 26, 2009 10:14AM

You should go to the Post Office which you shipped from ASAP and file a mail recall form. Your situation is beginning to look like the work of a scammer at the other end that either used a stolen credit card account number, or that phished in to another person's Paypal account. Hope you didn't ship the item yet.

al410 · October 26, 2009 10:14AM

Just as another point of view, instead of the buyer trusting the seller to ship exactly what he purchased, paying up front, how about the seller sending the goods upfront? yeah not good huh. There has to be protection for this type of auctions to work, won't always be as accomadating as we would like but it keeps the auctions going.
AL

Boom · October 26, 2009 10:16AM

Oh Man! I hope this works out for you.

notwilight · October 26, 2009 10:16AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< The buyer has paid you. Don't make your problem his. >>

The buyer choose Paypal. It is the Buyer's problem. >>

No, it isn't. He paid per the sale description. >>

Can anyone pay with anything except Paypal? I mentioned in the description that I would accept personal checks or money orders and ebay would not accept the listing. They said I had included unacceptable (something similar) payment methods. I had to delete everything except paypal. >>

Sounds like you've been out of the loop for a while and missed the last set of changes. It was discussed, cussed, whined, and filleted thoroughly here. --Jerry

coindeuce · October 26, 2009 10:17AM

Or using a bona fide escrow service.

mrpotatoheadd · October 26, 2009 10:18AM

<< Just as another point of view, instead of the buyer trusting the seller to ship exactly what he purchased, paying up front, how about the seller sending the goods upfront? >>

Problem here is that the buyer can check out the seller before agreeing to a purchase, but sellers have no practical way to choose who their buyers are.

notwilight · October 26, 2009 10:20AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< The buyer has paid you. Don't make your problem his. >>

The buyer choose Paypal. It is the Buyer's problem. >>

No, it isn't. He paid per the sale description. >>

The seller does not have the money. HELLO, HELLO. HELLO. >>

Neither does the buyer...now just who isn't listening here? If your mind is already made up, quit posting. --Jerry

SilverEagles92 · October 26, 2009 10:23AM

PayPal did this to me once, on a $1,700 item

I quit using PayPal the second my money was made available.

Haven't looked back.

segoja · October 26, 2009 10:28AM

Follow the baords advice......get that item back ASAP

GrumpyEd · October 26, 2009 10:34AM

This one's getting scary!
I hope you didn't ship it yet.

stev32k · October 26, 2009 10:34AM

<< You should go to the Post Office which you shipped from ASAP and file a mail recall form. Your situation is beginning to look like the work of a scammer at the other end that either used a stolen credit card account number, or that phished in to another person's Paypal account. Hope you didn't ship the item yet. >>

The coin has not been shipped I'm still looking at it.

coindeuce · October 26, 2009 10:43AM

If you get any further indication from PayPig that the payment was unauthorized, then eBay should be informed. Whatever the case may be, don't ship the item. Just refund the payment and if the supposed buyer objects, tell them to take it up with PayPig.

stev32k · October 26, 2009 10:58AM

I got the buyers phone number and left a voice message, also sent an email via the ebay site, but have not heard back from either source. I'm beginning to think Paypal prevented a $1,300 loss. At least it's looking that way.

derryb · October 26, 2009 11:07AM

<< It gets even more interesting - I just received this email from paypal
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A review of recent transactions indicates that you might have received a payment that the PayPal account holder did not authorize.

To protect you from problematic transactions, we sometimes request additional information about PayPal payments.

We need more information about this transaction. Please log in to your PayPal account, click the "Resolution Center"tab, and provide more information by 11/2/2009.

We recommend that you not ship the item until our investigation is complete. If you've already shipped the item, please log in and let us know where you shipped it.

We have placed a temporary hold on the funds until we complete our investigation. >>

It is now a case of an unauthorized purchase. Paypal is investigating use of the credit card or the credit card charge did not go through. If this is the case, sounds like paypal ended up protecting you.

I would request contact info on the buyer through paypal ("help">"request contact information") and give the buyer a call.

Boom · October 26, 2009 11:12AM

Well. It's beginning to look like PayPal did you a favor.

<< The coin has not been shipped I'm still looking at it. >>

Then you DON'T have a problem.

Don't you DARE ship till that money clears.

Technically, they're not holding YOUR money.

DO NOT SHIP!
DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!!

Bochiman · October 26, 2009 11:12AM

<< 

<< The buyer has paid you. Don't make your problem his. >>

The buyer choose Paypal. It is the Buyer's problem. >>

No. Seller chose to sell on ebay. Ebay's rules are followed. Buyer followed them completely.
Don't punish the buyer if you don't like the system that you chose to use.

As a buyer, if someone told me that they were refunding my PERFECTLY GOOD money and demanding I send them a MO, they would have a complaint filed to paypal/ebay and they would lose a future customer.

If that's what a seller wants, then they shouldn't use ebay or, if they do, they should man up and have their own electronic payment processing available.

stev32k · October 26, 2009 11:32AM

<< 

<< 

<< The buyer has paid you. Don't make your problem his. >>

The buyer choose Paypal. It is the Buyer's problem. >>

No. Seller chose to sell on ebay. Ebay's rules are followed. Buyer followed them completely.
Don't punish the buyer if you don't like the system that you chose to use.

As a buyer, if someone told me that they were refunding my PERFECTLY GOOD money and demanding I send them a MO, they would have a complaint filed to paypal/ebay and they would lose a future customer.

If that's what a seller wants, then they shouldn't use ebay or, if they do, they should man up and have their own electronic payment processing available. >>

I don't believe you have read the entire thread. It now appears the buyer was not the owner of the account which purchased the coin. If I understand the last paypal email correctly "A review of recent transactions indicates that you might have received a payment that the PayPal account holder did not authorize." they are saying that the account has been hijacked. And if I had sent the coin someone (mainly me) would be out $1,300 bucks. That has nothing to do with following ebay rules. The buyer was not a buyer at all only a crook hoping to score a gold coin for nothing.â™

coindeuce · October 26, 2009 11:33AM

Bochi, have you read the entire thread? If not, feel free to review it in it's entirety.

Or you could just put your hands in your pockets and quit while you're behind.

segoja · October 26, 2009 11:39AM

As the baord siad, communicate with the buyer in the manner you have.....may yet still be legit (even though I doubt it). Don't give out too much personal info.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Paypal wants to put a 20 day hold on my money

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