I'm confused.....I don't see a problem with this listing.
I mean....If he wants to call it a "GEM" MS-63, whatever. It is what it is, and it's graded by pcgs. I routinely see much more silly descriptive adjectives tossed around describing the condition of a coin.
I'm the Proud recipient of a genuine "you suck" award dated 1/24/05. I was accepted into the "Circle of Trust" on 3/9/09.
"Super Rare Original" to hype either the OGH or the 1904 $20 does not seem befitting of a President of the ANA, IMO. There is nothing unethical, illegal, or immoral, and this kind of puffery is commonplace on ebay. Pardon me, but I hold an elected numismatic leader to a higher standard.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>"Super Rare Original" to hype either the OGH or the 1904 $20 does not seem befitting of a President of the ANA, IMO. There is nothing unethical, illegal, or immoral, and this kind of puffery is commonplace on ebay. Pardon me, but I hold an elected numismatic leader to a higher standard. >>
All that is a matter of opinion. Referring to a coin graded 63 as a Gem however, is not an opinion. 63 is choice and 65 is gem.
PCGS has graded 48,565 double eagles dated 1904 in MS63 with 31,422 in higher grades. Additionally, NGC has graded 63,139 in MS63 and 35,654 higher. In all grades, the services have graded 336,828! This is the most common date in the series, and obviously not a rare coin relatively speaking.
<< <i>PCGS has graded 48,565 double eagles dated 1904 in MS63 with 31,422 in higher grades. Additionally, NGC has graded 63,139 in MS63 and 35,654 higher. In all grades, the services have graded 336,828! This is the most common date in the series, and obviously not a rare coin relatively speaking. >>
Nobody who knows coins would consider it to be rare. Someone who has been elected to be an ANA President knows that these are not rare. Why promote it as rare? If we do not hold our leadership (current and former) to a higher standard, what can we expect from the rank and file?
<< <i>Nobody who knows coins would consider it to be rare. Someone who has been elected to be an ANA President knows that these are not rare. Why promote it as rare? If we do not hold our leadership (current and former) to a higher standard, what can we expect from the rank and file? >>
"Currently, PCGS places a conservative value for the 1904 $20 Saint Gaudens MS63 st: $2,500.00 *note that this value does not take into consideration the increased value of the CAC certification or the implied value of the original PCGS holder"
I would think a Saint Gaudens $20 from 1904 would be worth much more!
<< <i>Nobody who knows coins would consider it to be rare. Someone who has been elected to be an ANA President knows that these are not rare. Why promote it as rare? If we do not hold our leadership (current and former) to a higher standard, what can we expect from the rank and file? >>
I agree. Did you contact him with your concerns? >>
I have not, but if you think it would be effective or worthwhile, I will email him the following:
Dr. Mr. S....,
I was browsing for coins on ebay and could not help but notice your description of the 1904 $20 PCGS OGH CAC. You and I both know that there is nothing rare about these, and as an ANA member, my expectation is that ANA elected officials (past and present), who are coin dealers, should be examples for the other dealers in the community. Excessively hyping a very common, albeit desirable, coin in this fashion signals to other dealers that this sort of behavior is acceptable in the marketplace. Frankly, as a buyer, when I see this sort of nonsense it is such a turn-off that I do not even bother looking at the coin that is being offered.
Please consider how your behavior sets the standard for others.
Nice, even-handed letter, RYK. Please let us know what comes of it.
p.S. I think there's a distinct possibility that he'll reply that OGH examples with CAC stickers are "rare"... in which case ask him how he justifies "Gem".
<< <i>Nice, even-handed letter, RYK. Please let us know what comes of it.
p.S. I think there's a distinct possibility that he'll reply that OGH examples with CAC stickers are "rare"... in which case ask him how he justifies "Gem". >>
You know, we can get into a lengthy argument about the choice of specific words, but, IMO, that misses the forest for the trees. If you read the entire listing, you are led to believe that this coin would be extremely difficult to replace, and the fact is that nothing could be further from the truth.
> Actually, no. I signed my real name to the note.
It is a proper note with a more than valid point. However, by signing your 'real name' to the note, as posted earlier in the thread, are you now confirming to this forum Longacre is your alt? Mr. Longacre has previously suggested you might be his alt. Very strange! And, to puzzle the forum completely, it appears no one has seen the two of you together in one place at the same time. Now the mystery deepens!
p.s. yes, go get him. He definitely should know better than to take advantage of the innocent with absurd sales hype
<< <i>You know, we can get into a lengthy argument about the choice of specific words, but, IMO, that misses the forest for the trees. If you read the entire listing, you are led to believe that this coin would be extremely difficult to replace, and the fact is that nothing could be further from the truth. >>
Well, actually, when I read the entire listing, I notice that he talks mostly about the holder and sticker, and little about the coin itself. Whether the holder/sticker combo is in fact "hard to replace", I really don't know, nor do I care.
<< <i>PCGS has graded 48,565 double eagles dated 1904 in MS63 with 31,422 in higher grades. Additionally, NGC has graded 63,139 in MS63 and 35,654 higher. In all grades, the services have graded 336,828! This is the most common date in the series, and obviously not a rare coin relatively speaking. >>
Maybe that's why he is the "former" president of the ANA
<< <i>PCGS has graded 48,565 double eagles dated 1904 in MS63 with 31,422 in higher grades. Additionally, NGC has graded 63,139 in MS63 and 35,654 higher. In all grades, the services have graded 336,828! This is the most common date in the series, and obviously not a rare coin relatively speaking. >>
Maybe that's why he is the "former" president of the ANA >>
His term ran out and ANA Presidents can't run for reelection.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<<How would you address a seller who titles an ebay listing like this?>>
Dear Beavis's best friend,
<<"It wasn't my fault" A classic response>.
Seriously, give the man some credit. A mistake happened, it was pointed out, corrective measures were taken, and he did not try to sweep it under the rug. what more do you want. I give Mr. Stuppler credit for handling the situation in an open and honest fashion.
Looks like a well done listing, maybe a little lenghty and repetetive. I am not thrilled about the price - CDN Ask is $1985.
I would say he is looking to bag whoever is surfing in. 265 people have viewed it so whatever he is doin is working to get traffic in. All he needs is a buyer at his price. Current Market Value per CW Trends is $2500.
It seems so much tougher to sell big ticket material on the Bay these days. I have been selling some $100 to $200 material and getting 100% over cost. Sure helps with entertainment expenses. Its tough to make much money on generic gold unless gold goes up as there is so much competetion.
I might take a look at his other stuff just to see how he does his marketing.
<< <i>Nobody who knows coins would consider it to be rare. Someone who has been elected to be an ANA President knows that these are not rare. Why promote it as rare? If we do not hold our leadership (current and former) to a higher standard, what can we expect from the rank and file? >>
I agree. Did you contact him with your concerns? >>
I have not, but if you think it would be effective or worthwhile, I will email him the following:
Dr. Mr. S....,
I was browsing for coins on ebay and could not help but notice your description of the 1904 $20 PCGS OGH CAC. You and I both know that there is nothing rare about these, and as an ANA member, my expectation is that ANA elected officials (past and present), who are coin dealers, should be examples for the other dealers in the community. Excessively hyping a very common, albeit desirable, coin in this fashion signals to other dealers that this sort of behavior is acceptable in the marketplace. Frankly, as a buyer, when I see this sort of nonsense it is such a turn-off that I do not even bother looking at the coin that is being offered.
Please consider how your behavior sets the standard for others.
Thank you for your consideration.
Sincerely,
Longacre
>>
You are such a bad Boy!!
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Comments
Camelot
I mean....If he wants to call it a "GEM" MS-63, whatever. It is what it is, and it's graded by pcgs. I routinely see much more silly descriptive adjectives tossed around describing the condition of a coin.
and objections, where non exist. Now please, get
with the program.
Camelot
<< <i>The purpose of this Forum is to find fault
and objections, where non exist. Now please, get
with the program.
Haha, How I missed your humor recently bear- glad to see you back in good form
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>"Super Rare Original" to hype either the OGH or the 1904 $20 does not seem befitting of a President of the ANA, IMO. There is nothing unethical, illegal, or immoral, and this kind of puffery is commonplace on ebay. Pardon me, but I hold an elected numismatic leader to a higher standard. >>
All that is a matter of opinion. Referring to a coin graded 63 as a Gem however, is not an opinion. 63 is choice and 65 is gem.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
However Gem , Superb and rare, are terms of art and should not be used to mis
inform or confuse, as to the grade or scarcity the coin. It is clearly not illegal, however
it could be considered to be somewhat questionable.
Camelot
Additionally, NGC has graded 63,139 in MS63 and 35,654 higher.
In all grades, the services have graded 336,828!
This is the most common date in the series, and obviously not a rare coin relatively speaking.
<< <i>PCGS has graded 48,565 double eagles dated 1904 in MS63 with 31,422 in higher grades.
Additionally, NGC has graded 63,139 in MS63 and 35,654 higher.
In all grades, the services have graded 336,828!
This is the most common date in the series, and obviously not a rare coin relatively speaking. >>
Nobody who knows coins would consider it to be rare. Someone who has been elected to be an ANA President knows that these are not rare. Why promote it as rare? If we do not hold our leadership (current and former) to a higher standard, what can we expect from the rank and file?
<< <i>Nobody who knows coins would consider it to be rare. Someone who has been elected to be an ANA President knows that these are not rare. Why promote it as rare? If we do not hold our leadership (current and former) to a higher standard, what can we expect from the rank and file? >>
I agree. Did you contact him with your concerns?
"Currently, PCGS places a conservative value for the 1904 $20 Saint Gaudens MS63 st: $2,500.00
*note that this value does not take into consideration the increased value of the CAC certification or the implied value of the original PCGS holder"
I would think a Saint Gaudens $20 from 1904 would be worth much more!
<< <i>
<< <i>Nobody who knows coins would consider it to be rare. Someone who has been elected to be an ANA President knows that these are not rare. Why promote it as rare? If we do not hold our leadership (current and former) to a higher standard, what can we expect from the rank and file? >>
I agree. Did you contact him with your concerns? >>
I have not, but if you think it would be effective or worthwhile, I will email him the following:
Dr. Mr. S....,
I was browsing for coins on ebay and could not help but notice your description of the 1904 $20 PCGS OGH CAC. You and I both know that there is nothing rare about these, and as an ANA member, my expectation is that ANA elected officials (past and present), who are coin dealers, should be examples for the other dealers in the community. Excessively hyping a very common, albeit desirable, coin in this fashion signals to other dealers that this sort of behavior is acceptable in the marketplace. Frankly, as a buyer, when I see this sort of nonsense it is such a turn-off that I do not even bother looking at the coin that is being offered.
Please consider how your behavior sets the standard for others.
Thank you for your consideration.
Sincerely,
Longacre
Camelot
RYK, shouldn't that e mail be signed "2nd deputy assistant to Mr. Longacre"
<< <i>RYK, shouldn't that e mail be signed "2nd deputy assistant to Mr. Longacre"
Actually, no. I signed my real name to the note. If I want to be taken seriously, and I do, there is no reason to be dishonest or evasive.
p.S. I think there's a distinct possibility that he'll reply that OGH examples with CAC stickers are "rare"... in which case
ask him how he justifies "Gem".
WOW.
<< <i>Nice, even-handed letter, RYK. Please let us know what comes of it.
p.S. I think there's a distinct possibility that he'll reply that OGH examples with CAC stickers are "rare"... in which case
ask him how he justifies "Gem". >>
You know, we can get into a lengthy argument about the choice of specific words, but, IMO, that misses the forest for the trees. If you read the entire listing, you are led to believe that this coin would be extremely difficult to replace, and the fact is that nothing could be further from the truth.
> Actually, no. I signed my real name to the note.
It is a proper note with a more than valid point. However, by signing your 'real name' to the note, as posted earlier in the thread, are you now confirming to this forum Longacre is your alt? Mr. Longacre has previously suggested you might be his alt. Very strange! And, to puzzle the forum completely, it appears no one has seen the two of you together in one place at the same time. Now the mystery deepens!
p.s. yes, go get him. He definitely should know better than to take advantage of the innocent with absurd sales hype
<< <i>You know, we can get into a lengthy argument about the choice of specific words, but, IMO, that misses the forest for the trees. If you read the entire listing, you are led to believe that this coin would be extremely difficult to replace, and the fact is that nothing could be further from the truth. >>
Well, actually, when I read the entire listing, I notice that he talks mostly about the holder and sticker, and little about the coin
itself. Whether the holder/sticker combo is in fact "hard to replace", I really don't know, nor do I care.
"Dear Mr. or Mrs. Shameless Hype That is Totally Out of Proportion..."
<< <i>I would address him as dear mr. keyword spammer. >>
Gem is a not the right word for a 63, it's spam.
question and reply posted to auction.... check it out.
the less the coin is able to speak for itself. I also agree
with Goose, the term LQQK, when used, always forces me
,
to pass by such a coin on general principal.
Camelot
<< <i>PCGS has graded 48,565 double eagles dated 1904 in MS63 with 31,422 in higher grades.
Additionally, NGC has graded 63,139 in MS63 and 35,654 higher.
In all grades, the services have graded 336,828!
This is the most common date in the series, and obviously not a rare coin relatively speaking. >>
Maybe that's why he is the "former" president of the ANA
<< <i>
<< <i>PCGS has graded 48,565 double eagles dated 1904 in MS63 with 31,422 in higher grades.
Additionally, NGC has graded 63,139 in MS63 and 35,654 higher.
In all grades, the services have graded 336,828!
This is the most common date in the series, and obviously not a rare coin relatively speaking. >>
Maybe that's why he is the "former" president of the ANA >>
His term ran out and ANA Presidents can't run for reelection.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>The purpose of this Forum is to find fault
and objections, where non exist. Now please, get
with the program.
Get with the program ..... And snap out of it!
Gardnerville, NV
=========================
Our Website -->Innovation, Native & Presidential Dollar Errors, Lincoln Cents and more
Check it out --> Our eBay Auctions
Dear Beavis's best friend,
<<"It wasn't my fault" A classic response>.
Seriously, give the man some credit. A mistake happened, it was pointed out, corrective measures were taken, and he did not try to sweep it under the rug. what more do you want. I give Mr. Stuppler credit for handling the situation in an open and honest fashion.
I would say he is looking to bag whoever is surfing in. 265 people have viewed it so whatever he is doin is working to get traffic in. All he needs is a buyer at his price. Current Market Value per CW Trends is $2500.
It seems so much tougher to sell big ticket material on the Bay these days. I have been selling some $100 to $200 material and getting 100% over cost. Sure helps with entertainment expenses. Its tough to make much money on generic gold unless gold goes up as there is so much competetion.
I might take a look at his other stuff just to see how he does his marketing.
<< <i>His description seems a little lengthy and repetitive in some respects. Otherwise, I have no problem.
I would say he is looking to bag whoever is surfing in. >>
Again, for Joe dealer that approach is expected. For a former President of the ANA, one would hope that the approach is a little classier.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Nobody who knows coins would consider it to be rare. Someone who has been elected to be an ANA President knows that these are not rare. Why promote it as rare? If we do not hold our leadership (current and former) to a higher standard, what can we expect from the rank and file? >>
I agree. Did you contact him with your concerns? >>
I have not, but if you think it would be effective or worthwhile, I will email him the following:
Dr. Mr. S....,
I was browsing for coins on ebay and could not help but notice your description of the 1904 $20 PCGS OGH CAC. You and I both know that there is nothing rare about these, and as an ANA member, my expectation is that ANA elected officials (past and present), who are coin dealers, should be examples for the other dealers in the community. Excessively hyping a very common, albeit desirable, coin in this fashion signals to other dealers that this sort of behavior is acceptable in the marketplace. Frankly, as a buyer, when I see this sort of nonsense it is such a turn-off that I do not even bother looking at the coin that is being offered.
Please consider how your behavior sets the standard for others.
Thank you for your consideration.
Sincerely,
Longacre
You are such a bad Boy!!
The name is LEE!
I kinda find the reference to the "conservative grading" on the OGH's to be a bit misleading but then thats just me.
You suppose Barry either read this thread or the email??
The name is LEE!
"...a good deal of them is in..."
"...because of it's rare..."
"...any other in it's grade..."
"CAC certification. Meaning that..."
Not only does the new employee NOT get a green sticker, he (or she) needs to return to High School and complete 12th Grade Composition.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>The purpose of this Forum is to find fault
and objections, where non exist. Now please, get
with the program.
"I did not write the description, it was written by a new employee. However, I made some corrections. Thank you for pointing it out. Barry"