<< <i>I am not going to say I haven't done it before but to date....I have never been burnt by a raw purchase becuase I know exactly what I am buying or pay so little it really doesn't matter. When it comes to copper, especially IHCs I would seriously caution you about purchasing raw coins....regardless of where you bought it. $200 for a raw IHC present the possibilities of a lot of down side with very little upside. You can purchase a graded example for that price...
To be honest I have been looking for a while for a slabbed one and have had no luck. I "bought" one on collectors corner a few weeks ago and like the other 5 times I have tried to buy a coin there, I got an email from the seller telling me they no longer have it. Ebay has not had one in at least the past 90 days.
My first thoughts when you posted the coin in the initial thread was "doesn't look right." It had the look of a cleaned/messed with coin. The coin was cleaned. Period.
If you didn't like the coin when you received it, you should have contacted the seller. Once you start doing anything to the coin, you have committed to keeping it, in my opinion. The fact that you acetoned it does not take away the fact that it was a cleaned coin. I have purchased raw coins on eBay- it's always a gamble. Some coins suck and others have been homeruns. However, I have never returned a raw coin because I know I am taking a gamble and I know what risks I am taking. For me, eBay is not an approval service. You win some, you lose some...
And some people replying to this thread have made total fools of themselves with all the name calling...
The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson
<< <i>I am not going to say I haven't done it before but to date....I have never been burnt by a raw purchase becuase I know exactly what I am buying or pay so little it really doesn't matter. When it comes to copper, especially IHCs I would seriously caution you about purchasing raw coins....regardless of where you bought it. $200 for a raw IHC present the possibilities of a lot of down side with very little upside. You can purchase a graded example for that price...
To be honest I have been looking for a while for a slabbed one and have had no luck. I "bought" one on collectors corner a few weeks ago and like the other 5 times I have tried to buy a coin there, I got an email from the seller telling me they no longer have it. Ebay has not had one in at least the past 90 days. >>
I would probably check with Rick Snow or maybe look at some of the auctions houses or some of the other more reputable dealers like NorthEast numismatics etc. I have no patience when I know what I want but as collectors....it's in our best interest to wait until the right coin comes along even if it takes a few years.
My first thoughts when you posted the coin in the initial thread was "doesn't look right." It had the look of a cleaned/messed with coin. The coin was cleaned. Period.
If you didn't like the coin when you received it, you should have contacted the seller. Once you start doing anything to the coin, you have committed to keeping it, in my opinion. The fact that you acetoned it does not take away the fact that it was a cleaned coin. I have purchased raw coins on eBay- it's always a gamble. Some coins suck and others have been homeruns. However, I have never returned a raw coin because I know I am taking a gamble and I know what risks I am taking. For me, eBay is not an approval service. You win some, you lose some...
And some people replying to this thread have made total fools of themselves with all the name calling... >>
I cant argue with that. I have already said I am not going to try and force the issue with the seller or leave him any sort of bad feedback over it. I can take my lumps, this week I bought an 1873 trade dollar that turned out to be a proof. That offsets this experience by far.
<< <i>To any person who thinks that soaking a coin in acetone is altering or doctoring a coin, you clearly do not know anything about acetone and are shooting from the lip. Acetone is good for your coins, use it often! You can soak a problem free coin in acetone for a year and it will come out in the same condition. There is no TPG in existence that will penalize you for using acetone on a coin. >>
It is "shooting from the hip". And were I you, I would be careful about taking "conventional wisdom" as gospel.
Just because generally acetone is safe to use on copper and other metals does not mean that changes in the appearance of the metal cannot occur.
<< <i>Copper reacts photochemically with acetone and water vapor to form acetic acid. The acetic acid then reacts with copper to form copper acetate. Over a period of 18 hours the copper foil that was immersed in acetone and exposed to ambient light developed blue crystal deposits as shown in the optical photomicrograph in Fig. 1 >>
- Photochemical Breakdown of Acetone on Copper
in fact you can find many anecdotal stories on the internet of acetone changing the color of copper. Were these coins "doctored" or was the acetone having a reaction with the copper and other naturally occurring substances within the patina?
My first thoughts when you posted the coin in the initial thread was "doesn't look right." It had the look of a cleaned/messed with coin. The coin was cleaned. Period.
If you didn't like the coin when you received it, you should have contacted the seller. Once you start doing anything to the coin, you have committed to keeping it, in my opinion. The fact that you acetoned it does not take away the fact that it was a cleaned coin. I have purchased raw coins on eBay- it's always a gamble. Some coins suck and others have been homeruns. However, I have never returned a raw coin because I know I am taking a gamble and I know what risks I am taking. For me, eBay is not an approval service. You win some, you lose some...
And some people replying to this thread have made total fools of themselves with all the name calling... >>
I cant argue with that. I have already said I am not going to try and force the issue with the seller or leave him any sort of bad feedback over it. I can take my lumps, this week I bought an 1873 trade dollar that turned out to be a proof. That offsets this experience by far. >>
Oh do show us the 73 Proof - we are all curious to see this one..
I think there is a lot of 20-20 hind sight here. If FEC had asked up front, "What will acetone do to this coin" there would have been a unanimous "nothing".
I think that a coin that has color that is removable by acetone is returnable. The op was obviously very happy with the coin and was planning to keep it for a long time. I understand his desire to wash it in acetone to make sure it doesn't turn later from a latent fingerprint or other contamination. Many people acetone wash all coins before sending to a TPG for slabbing.
If you bought a car, were very happy with it, then very carefully hand washed it and the color came off would you say, "Well, I guess I shouldn't have washed it."
As for putting blue ribbon on it, I don't know what the OP was thinking but it appears he may have been trying to figure out what the seller had used.
As for the return, it doesn't hurt to ask so long as he is honest. I would. Sure, the seller can say "NO WAY" but if I were the seller I would definitely take the coin back and go speak to whoever I bought it from. I might end up eating it but an honest seller doesn't sell coins with acetone soluble color. FEC says right in his post that he doesn't expect the seller to take it back.
Boom, you are absolutely out of line with your harshness.
<< <i>I think there is a lot of 20-20 hind sight here. If FEC had asked up front, "What will acetone do to this coin" there would have been a unanimous "nothing".
I think that a coin that has color that is removable by acetone is returnable. The op was obviously very happy with the coin and was planning to keep it for a long time. I understand his desire to wash it in acetone to make sure it doesn't turn later from a latent fingerprint or other contamination. Many people acetone wash all coins before sending to a TPG for slabbing.
If you bought a car, were very happy with it, then very carefully hand washed it and the color came off would you say, "Well, I guess I shouldn't have washed it."
As for putting MS70 on it, I don't know what the OP was thinking but it appears he may have been trying to figure out what the seller had used.
As for the return, it doesn't hurt to ask so long as he is honest. I would. Sure, the seller can say "NO WAY" but if I were the seller I would definitely take the coin back and go speak to whoever I bought it from. I might end up eating it but an honest seller doesn't sell coins with acetone soluble color. FEC says right in his post that he doesn't expect the seller to take it back.
Boom, you are absolutely out of line with your harshness.
--Jerry >>
Jerry,
I appreciate the decency of your post. For the record, I didnt use MS70 on it, I would never put that stuff on copper. I put blue ribbon coin preserver on it. That was an impulsive move that I didnt quite think through in trying to figure out why the coins color melted away.
I appreciate the decency of your post. For the record, I didnt use MS70 on it, I would never put that stuff on copper. I put blue ribbon coin preserver on it. That was an impulsive move that I didnt quite think through in trying to figure out why the coins color melted away. >>
<< <i>I think there is a lot of 20-20 hind sight here. If FEC had asked up front, "What will acetone do to this coin" there would have been a unanimous "nothing" >>
Looks like the coin might have been laquered, the acetone took the laquer off and that caused the color change. It looks like the laquer residue is still there in a few areas.
If you noticed laquer you could return it but after removing it and using blue ribbon it's not returnable unless the seller is very understanding.
I picked up a cheap neat token, didn't notice it was laquered because in a flip it was hard to spot. When I took it out of the flip I saw it was laquered. I soaked it in acetone to get the laquer off and it did about what this coin did. Also, when I soaked it the laquer is easy to see floating on the acetone.
<< <i>I think there is a lot of 20-20 hind sight here. If FEC had asked up front, "What will acetone do to this coin" there would have been a unanimous "nothing".
I think that a coin that has color that is removable by acetone is returnable. The op was obviously very happy with the coin and was planning to keep it for a long time. I understand his desire to wash it in acetone to make sure it doesn't turn later from a latent fingerprint or other contamination. Many people acetone wash all coins before sending to a TPG for slabbing.
If you bought a car, were very happy with it, then very carefully hand washed it and the color came off would you say, "Well, I guess I shouldn't have washed it."
As for putting blue ribbon on it, I don't know what the OP was thinking but it appears he may have been trying to figure out what the seller had used.
As for the return, it doesn't hurt to ask so long as he is honest. I would. Sure, the seller can say "NO WAY" but if I were the seller I would definitely take the coin back and go speak to whoever I bought it from. I might end up eating it but an honest seller doesn't sell coins with acetone soluble color. FEC says right in his post that he doesn't expect the seller to take it back.
Boom, you are absolutely out of line with your harshness.
--Jerry >>
Thanks, Jerry, for saying so eloquently what I was trying to convey in my post 2 or 3 up from this one
Comments
<< <i>I am not going to say I haven't done it before but to date....I have never been burnt by a raw purchase becuase I know exactly what I am buying or pay so little it really doesn't matter. When it comes to copper, especially IHCs I would seriously caution you about purchasing raw coins....regardless of where you bought it. $200 for a raw IHC present the possibilities of a lot of down side with very little upside. You can purchase a graded example for that price...
1864 NGC MS62 sold for $149.50 >>
To be honest I have been looking for a while for a slabbed one and have had no luck. I "bought" one on collectors corner a few weeks ago and like the other 5 times I have tried to buy a coin there, I got an email from the seller telling me they no longer have it. Ebay has not had one in at least the past 90 days.
My first thoughts when you posted the coin in the initial thread was "doesn't look right." It had the look of a cleaned/messed with coin. The coin was cleaned. Period.
If you didn't like the coin when you received it, you should have contacted the seller. Once you start doing anything to the coin, you have committed to keeping it, in my opinion. The fact that you acetoned it does not take away the fact that it was a cleaned coin. I have purchased raw coins on eBay- it's always a gamble. Some coins suck and others have been homeruns. However, I have never returned a raw coin because I know I am taking a gamble and I know what risks I am taking. For me, eBay is not an approval service. You win some, you lose some...
And some people replying to this thread have made total fools of themselves with all the name calling...
<< <i>
<< <i>I am not going to say I haven't done it before but to date....I have never been burnt by a raw purchase becuase I know exactly what I am buying or pay so little it really doesn't matter. When it comes to copper, especially IHCs I would seriously caution you about purchasing raw coins....regardless of where you bought it. $200 for a raw IHC present the possibilities of a lot of down side with very little upside. You can purchase a graded example for that price...
1864 NGC MS62 sold for $149.50 >>
To be honest I have been looking for a while for a slabbed one and have had no luck. I "bought" one on collectors corner a few weeks ago and like the other 5 times I have tried to buy a coin there, I got an email from the seller telling me they no longer have it. Ebay has not had one in at least the past 90 days. >>
I would probably check with Rick Snow or maybe look at some of the auctions houses or some of the other more reputable dealers like NorthEast numismatics etc. I have no patience when I know what I want but as collectors....it's in our best interest to wait until the right coin comes along even if it takes a few years.
<< <i>For what it's worth...
My first thoughts when you posted the coin in the initial thread was "doesn't look right." It had the look of a cleaned/messed with coin. The coin was cleaned. Period.
If you didn't like the coin when you received it, you should have contacted the seller. Once you start doing anything to the coin, you have committed to keeping it, in my opinion. The fact that you acetoned it does not take away the fact that it was a cleaned coin. I have purchased raw coins on eBay- it's always a gamble. Some coins suck and others have been homeruns. However, I have never returned a raw coin because I know I am taking a gamble and I know what risks I am taking. For me, eBay is not an approval service. You win some, you lose some...
And some people replying to this thread have made total fools of themselves with all the name calling... >>
I cant argue with that. I have already said I am not going to try and force the issue with the seller or leave him any sort of bad feedback over it. I can take my lumps, this week I bought an 1873 trade dollar that turned out to be a proof. That offsets this experience by far.
<< <i>To any person who thinks that soaking a coin in acetone is altering or doctoring a coin, you clearly do not know anything about acetone and are shooting from the lip. Acetone is good for your coins, use it often! You can soak a problem free coin in acetone for a year and it will come out in the same condition. There is no TPG in existence that will penalize you for using acetone on a coin. >>
It is "shooting from the hip". And were I you, I would be careful about taking "conventional wisdom" as gospel.
Just because generally acetone is safe to use on copper and other metals does not mean that changes in the appearance of the metal cannot occur.
<< <i>Copper reacts photochemically with acetone and water vapor to form acetic acid. The acetic acid then reacts with copper to form copper acetate. Over a period of 18 hours the copper foil that was immersed in acetone and exposed to ambient light developed blue crystal deposits as shown in the optical photomicrograph in Fig. 1 >>
- Photochemical Breakdown of Acetone on Copper
in fact you can find many anecdotal stories on the internet of acetone changing the color of copper. Were these coins "doctored" or was the acetone having a reaction with the copper and other naturally occurring substances within the patina?
<< <i>
<< <i>For what it's worth...
My first thoughts when you posted the coin in the initial thread was "doesn't look right." It had the look of a cleaned/messed with coin. The coin was cleaned. Period.
If you didn't like the coin when you received it, you should have contacted the seller. Once you start doing anything to the coin, you have committed to keeping it, in my opinion. The fact that you acetoned it does not take away the fact that it was a cleaned coin. I have purchased raw coins on eBay- it's always a gamble. Some coins suck and others have been homeruns. However, I have never returned a raw coin because I know I am taking a gamble and I know what risks I am taking. For me, eBay is not an approval service. You win some, you lose some...
And some people replying to this thread have made total fools of themselves with all the name calling... >>
I cant argue with that. I have already said I am not going to try and force the issue with the seller or leave him any sort of bad feedback over it. I can take my lumps, this week I bought an 1873 trade dollar that turned out to be a proof. That offsets this experience by far. >>
Oh do show us the 73 Proof - we are all curious to see this one..
I think that a coin that has color that is removable by acetone is returnable. The op was obviously very happy with the coin and was planning to keep it for a long time. I understand his desire to wash it in acetone to make sure it doesn't turn later from a latent fingerprint or other contamination. Many people acetone wash all coins before sending to a TPG for slabbing.
If you bought a car, were very happy with it, then very carefully hand washed it and the color came off would you say, "Well, I guess I shouldn't have washed it."
As for putting blue ribbon on it, I don't know what the OP was thinking but it appears he may have been trying to figure out what the seller had used.
As for the return, it doesn't hurt to ask so long as he is honest. I would. Sure, the seller can say "NO WAY" but if I were the seller I would definitely take the coin back and go speak to whoever I bought it from. I might end up eating it but an honest seller doesn't sell coins with acetone soluble color. FEC says right in his post that he doesn't expect the seller to take it back.
Boom, you are absolutely out of line with your harshness.
--Jerry
<< <i>I think there is a lot of 20-20 hind sight here. If FEC had asked up front, "What will acetone do to this coin" there would have been a unanimous "nothing".
I think that a coin that has color that is removable by acetone is returnable. The op was obviously very happy with the coin and was planning to keep it for a long time. I understand his desire to wash it in acetone to make sure it doesn't turn later from a latent fingerprint or other contamination. Many people acetone wash all coins before sending to a TPG for slabbing.
If you bought a car, were very happy with it, then very carefully hand washed it and the color came off would you say, "Well, I guess I shouldn't have washed it."
As for putting MS70 on it, I don't know what the OP was thinking but it appears he may have been trying to figure out what the seller had used.
As for the return, it doesn't hurt to ask so long as he is honest. I would. Sure, the seller can say "NO WAY" but if I were the seller I would definitely take the coin back and go speak to whoever I bought it from. I might end up eating it but an honest seller doesn't sell coins with acetone soluble color. FEC says right in his post that he doesn't expect the seller to take it back.
Boom, you are absolutely out of line with your harshness.
--Jerry >>
Jerry,
I appreciate the decency of your post. For the record, I didnt use MS70 on it, I would never put that stuff on copper. I put blue ribbon coin preserver on it. That was an impulsive move that I didnt quite think through in trying to figure out why the coins color melted away.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Jerry,
I appreciate the decency of your post. For the record, I didnt use MS70 on it, I would never put that stuff on copper. I put blue ribbon coin preserver on it. That was an impulsive move that I didnt quite think through in trying to figure out why the coins color melted away. >>
Fixed. thanks, Jerry
<< <i>I am glad that I mostly play in the gold pool, where people rarely try to change the coins' appearances. >>
For real?
<< <i>
<< <i>I am glad that I mostly play in the gold pool, where people rarely try to change the coins' appearances. >>
For real? >>
I think he winked. I was going to comment too. Instead, I'll just send him a little tub of putty to play with. --Jerry
<< <i>
<< <i>I am glad that I mostly play in the gold pool, where people rarely try to change the coins' appearances. >>
For real? >>
Yes. All gold is original. For real. That is one of the reasons that is it so awesome for collectors.
Answer: Chemicals
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Bastiat
right Mr. Hill?
<< <i>Yeah! That justs looks exactly like the coin in your OP!
You been this way long or were you born this way? >>
Dude. Shut up.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>I think there is a lot of 20-20 hind sight here. If FEC had asked up front, "What will acetone do to this coin" there would have been a unanimous "nothing" >>
Looks like the coin might have been laquered, the acetone took the laquer off and that caused the color change. It looks like the laquer residue is still there in a few areas.
If you noticed laquer you could return it but after removing it and using blue ribbon it's not returnable unless the seller is very understanding.
I picked up a cheap neat token, didn't notice it was laquered because in a flip it was hard to spot. When I took it out of the flip I saw it was laquered. I soaked it in acetone to get the laquer off and it did about what this coin did. Also, when I soaked it the laquer is easy to see floating on the acetone.
<< <i>I think there is a lot of 20-20 hind sight here. If FEC had asked up front, "What will acetone do to this coin" there would have been a unanimous "nothing".
I think that a coin that has color that is removable by acetone is returnable. The op was obviously very happy with the coin and was planning to keep it for a long time. I understand his desire to wash it in acetone to make sure it doesn't turn later from a latent fingerprint or other contamination. Many people acetone wash all coins before sending to a TPG for slabbing.
If you bought a car, were very happy with it, then very carefully hand washed it and the color came off would you say, "Well, I guess I shouldn't have washed it."
As for putting blue ribbon on it, I don't know what the OP was thinking but it appears he may have been trying to figure out what the seller had used.
As for the return, it doesn't hurt to ask so long as he is honest. I would. Sure, the seller can say "NO WAY" but if I were the seller I would definitely take the coin back and go speak to whoever I bought it from. I might end up eating it but an honest seller doesn't sell coins with acetone soluble color. FEC says right in his post that he doesn't expect the seller to take it back.
Boom, you are absolutely out of line with your harshness.
--Jerry >>
Thanks, Jerry, for saying so eloquently what I was trying to convey in my post 2 or 3 up from this one
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1