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What is the oldest ANA certficate for authenticating coins?
Windycity
Posts: 3,613 ✭✭✭✭✭
When did ANA first authenticate coins? I know they started authenticating before they started grading. Anyone know for sure?
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Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
I still have that someplace...maybe with my 1964-D silver dollars....the ANA was very young at the time - pre-natal.
Pretty cool papers. Apparently they authenticated the coin, returned the coin with papers saying the certificate and photos would follow under separate cover at a later date. It states they need atleast two weeks to develop the film and print the certificate. The photo and certificate were dated 1/11/1973 and mailed out at that time.
<< <i>According to Conder's slab book(2003)(page 107) the first ANAcs slab was issued in 1972 and ran through Sept 1976. >>
Wrong. There were no slabs back then, only photo certificates.
The first PCGS slab came out in 1986. ANACS slabs came some time later.
TD
Check my other post. I show the certificate you're referencing.
Pat
If I'm not mistaken PCGS bought slab rights from ACG.
Anacs slabs were later than PCGS or NGC slabs.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
<< <i>Tom,
Check my other post. I show the certificate you're referencing.
Pat >>
I saw that. Don't recall seeing that letter of transmittal before. They may have used it for only a short while, until they got a photo lab set up and could do the certificates in house.
When I started at ANACS in Colorado springs in Nov. 1978, here's how certificates were made: a coin was shot obverse and reverse on two consecutive 2" by 2" negatives. The 12-shot rolls were developed in our darkroom. The information was typed on an IBM Selectric typewriter on a form printed with six templates, one sheet per roll. The typed sheet was photographed on a large negative and developed. The six templates were then cut out of the large negative, matched up with the appropriate coin negative with the text above the coin, and printed on photographic paper, four to a sheet. They were cut apart, and a rubber stamp printed on the back.
Of course, they were only doing about 20-30 coins a day, authentication only, and the bad ones did not get a certificate. All coins were photographed, however, and the nefatives stored in glassine envelopes for future reference.
After we started grading, volume increased dramatically. We switched to computer-printed labels that could be wrapped around the front and back of the photographic print.
I remember when we sat down with a local computer programmer to explain what we needed. A unique file had to be generated, that could later be updated with the authentication results and the grading results. The genius sat there and then said that it would be a lot simpler if the person creating the new file could simply assign the grade at that time. I don't think he ever did understand what it was we did.
TD
<< <i>
<< <i>All coins were photographed, however, and the nefatives stored in glassine envelopes for future reference. >>
...and they are still there, exactly as they were filed...
I specialize in Errors, Minting, Counterfeit Detection & Grading.
Computer-aided grading, counterfeit detection, recognition and imaging.
ANACS certified its first coin as genuine on June 15, 1972, Taken from the history page from www.ANACS.com
Not sure where Condor101 picked up that info, but ANACS says it the 15th. (Not the 12th maybe he has seen a cert to confirm that date)
The earlier type 1 certs were issued from the Washington DC office and used the letter designation of A, B, and C. (Randomly)
The Colorado Spring office started with the letter E, and the type 2 certs.
Grading started in March 1979 with a type 3 cert with or without a grade, you needed to pay extra for the grading. The coin info was typed on to the form and the back was rubber stamped with the message.
Type 4 was now made as a stick on label and wrapped around on to the back and was applied to the photo. Now it is a photo cert with the picture and info married up to one document.
The ANA owns all of the Photo Certs, ANACS population books donot include the coins from that era.
The slabs did not come around until 1989, Then in 1990 Amos press bought ANACS and then the ANA started the ANAAB but lasted until November 2002.
Hope someone will read this, I find that researching the old Photo Cert or holders very interesting.
Thanks to all and Merry Christmas.
Bob
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They may have opened a package on the 12th, looked at the coin and determined that it was genuine, and then then announced for publicity purposes that they had authenticated their first coin on the 12th. After all, that was the authentication process. The rest (including the certificates) was just the paperwork.
TD
Here are some of the headlines:
Hobby Must Speed Up Authentication Service (1/21/70)
Sheldon Scale Merits Adoption (4/25/73)
Abuses of MS-70 Grading Suggest Need For Reform (11/7/73)
Coin Overgrading Problem Gets ANA Board Attention (1/2/74)
ANA Gives Green Light To Proposed Grading Board (4/23/75)
Here is the cert from 1975:
www.brunkauctions.com
*I had to alter Virgil's name to get it past the profanity filters on this forum*
www.brunkauctions.com
On my way home from work I was thinking I should look up the date and see which day that was, Monday I was thinking it could have been Friday. And what you say CaptHenway makes a lot of sense to me. I have read many of your post lately, but they are years old. I just keep searching for them.
I hope for you relicsncoins, that more photo certs will become available, I would still like to buy more.
By the way the two 1941-S 50C WL’s I bought are in serial number order, F-8670-N and F-8671-N, these two coins have probably been together since the mint rolled or bag them in ‘41.
Savoyspecial, thanks for the tip on the book, I was also thinking on searching the ANA library to see if anything show up on this subject. Will look for Abe’s book, It might be hard to find but you make it seem like a must have for me.
All of the info I have seen and on when ANACS stated grading seems to say it was in 1979 and on the web site ANACS.com the history page says, In 1976 ANACS moved to Colorado Springs … Three years later they began grading coins using the technical grading standards from The Official ANA Grading Standards for US Coins Copyrighted in 1977
I am in no way an authority on this subject, I just keep digging for the information, and I believe that most, if not all is correct for what I am finding. I just want to get the information from the people that have been there. And to think I started all this with the purchase of a Kennedy half dollar PCGS Sample I bought off a bid board near my home (I have been collecting since 1971). Then moved to Rattlers, ANACS 1st generation holders and today to Photo Certs. Since they are the oldest I find the research to be most of the fun.
Bob
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<< <i>As I have mentioned before, the oldest ANACS certificate that I have seen is from 1975 and I believe this was the first year that firm graded coins. Prior to 1975 they were only authenticating coins. A neat book that retraces all of the headlines of the day regarding the set up of ANA/ANACS grading is Abe Kosoff Remembers....
Here are some of the headlines:
Hobby Must Speed Up Authentication Service (1/21/70)
Sheldon Scale Merits Adoption (4/25/73)
Abuses of MS-70 Grading Suggest Need For Reform (11/7/73)
Coin Overgrading Problem Gets ANA Board Attention (1/2/74)
ANA Gives Green Light To Proposed Grading Board (4/23/75)
Here is the cert from 1975:
I started the grading service for ANACS. It was March 1, 1979.
The Grading Board approved in 1975 wrote the grading standards book that was published in 1977.
At the 1978 convention in Houston, the Board authorized Rochette to hire a grader to start the grading service as part of ANACS. I negotiated my hiring there, but it was not announced until late October. I started working for ANA Nov. 1, 1978. We spent four months consulting and testing.
TD
Bob
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I just wanted to say that the photo cert for your 1884-S Morgan is a very nice type 1 certs. B4609, from the Washington DC office. I guess I could say more but ... you already know allot about it and I have seen it in other posts
Here is the link to a 1911-D 2 1/2 dollar, Grades maybe AU-50 Dated 10/06/1972 S/N 0529, but this is a duplicate dated 02-05-82, type 4 with no grade! This was just pulled from eBay, I was watching it and it closed with no buyers, relisted and then pulled. Not sure if the seller sold it off eBay or what. I have saved the pictures for it. I passed this sale on to ANACS but just a short comment from them that it was nice. I can't afford gold so I thought this being such an early Photo Cert ANACS might want to get it. I guess I will never know. I wish it was still with the original photo cert.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/120829550434?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649
OPS I guess you have to cut and pasta the link on this forum.
I don't know how long this link will work eBay gets rid of old sale (12/23/11) so if you might want to keep any pictures of it, best hurry
Thanks
Bob
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<< <i>It appears RWB wins, his answer obviously came before. >>
yes indeed that works