Fan catches ball...pursuaded to give it up for the players collection....

akuracy503 · September 22, 2009 11:52AM

Just saw something interesting...so Jose Lopez of the Mariners just hits his career high seasonal home run total tonight in Tampa Bay.

The fan who caught the ball is approached by staff and cameras are rolling on FSN...fan looks pretty upset and not willing to give up the ball or even talk about it....security guy comes and escorts man out with said staff, minutes later the fan is sitting back down in his seat looking distraught.

What just happened? is it legally ok to force a fan into giving up a ball for the sake of a players trophy case?

Anyone been in this situation? what type of deal couldve been cut? how did Tampa Bay staff so quickly know to retrieve this special ball?

I've seen quite a few of these scenarios the past few weeks with rookies playing for the Mariners, first hits, first home runs etc.

Share your opinions or past experiences, interesting topic for me.

pdub1819 · September 22, 2009 12:24PM

I read an article recently about ball hawks. I can't remember if it was on a thread here. Anyway, these guys would strategically buy tickets to games where there was going to be some type of meaningful home run. Then when they were approached by game staff, they would give them some type of list of items they wanted to receive for the ball. Usually, the staff just wanted to trade a ball for a ball, but the ball hawks would ask for autographed balls, bats, jerseys, etc. and usually they got what they were asking for. Maybe this fan didn't know any better and just gave in.

vladguerrero · September 22, 2009 1:15PM

I was recently at a blue jays game and Melky Cabrera hit a HR, basically the Yankees got it back for another ball, the guys only hit 35 career hr's so maybe that's why he wanted it, either way the Tampa Bay story is kind of scary, legally balls hit into the stands are property of whoever catches it.

CNote · September 22, 2009 1:21PM

If the fan didn't give it back, Griffey was gonna go up there and give him a big ol' noogie

Allen · September 22, 2009 1:36PM

If I was a pro I would probably want to keep some of those balls. I think it is reasonable for a fan to ask for some compensation, they shouldn't have to just give it up unless they want to.

akuracy503 · September 22, 2009 1:59PM

The Mariners broadcast crew were joking that if it were other junctions of MLB towns this "negotiation process" would not have gone down so smooth, pointing to the fact that a security guy ushering the Tampa Bay fan out of seat to talk was a nice gesture or something...i'm not even so sure if the fan gave it up but he seemed pretty irritated after he got back in his seat.

By the way it was Jose Lopez's25th HR, most in his career.

storm888 · September 22, 2009 3:14PM

In Popov vs. Hayashi - the Barry Bonds HR ball case - the Judge accepted the
agreement by the parties that:

"...Prior to the time the ball was hit, it was possessed and owned by Major League Baseball.

At the time it was hit it became intentionally abandoned property.

The first person who came in possession of the ball became its new owner...."

Hayashi was allowed - for "technical reasons" - to argue that the ball had been
"gifted" to him by MLB, but the Judge accepted the ridiculous testimony as an
alternative argument as to how possession was achieved, and everyone knew
it would not be considered.

Equitable Division was awarded and the two monkeys split the proceeds. Popov
ran up a legal bill deep in the six-figs and I think he BKd on the lawyer. If I recall
correctly, that lawyer told the BK Trustee that fees were about $500K and costs
were $200K+. Popov's share of the ball sale - before taxes - would amount to
about $200K+.

///////////////////////////

Other than "tradition," I cannot recall any MLB rule that states the fan "owns"
the ball he catches/recovers.

NOT saying there is no such rule, I just don't recall if there is.

OBVIOUSLY, an equitable argument for ownership lies in possession, and
perhaps, in the sundry waivers that fans agree to when they go to the ballpark.

In general, you cannot recover damages if the ball hits you in the face, EXCEPT if a
net or screen fails. (Other rare exceptions, but not many.) Thus, the abandoned
projectile flying at you would likely always be found by a court to be YOUR property,
if you can defend against it killing you and then possess it.

THUS, the instant fan was likely under no obligation to surrender the ball to the THUGS,
and if it was taken from him by force or perceived threat of force, he should call a lawyer.

...............................

ball snagging

I have two trash cans full of golf balls. Every now and then, a drunk will demand his
ball back and I usually comply, BUT I am under no obligation to do so.

akuracy503 · September 22, 2009 4:30PM

Storm you are the man! Thanks for chiming in with your sources.

From what I gather alot of times teams/players will negotiate alternative incentives for trading these special balls fans obtain.
For instance a MLB players first home run ball...teams may give the fan a team signed ball or bat for the caught HR ball.

A story Mike Blowers mentioned (Mariners commentator on FSN), Years ago Stadium staff negotiating for Mike's first major league home run ball...you'd think Mike Blowers would've happily signed another ball in trade of his first HR ball, instead the fan negotiated that he receive an autographed ball from a teammate of Mike's named Don Mattingly. The fan couldn't have given up the ball any faster.

gemint · September 23, 2009 2:17AM

Wouldn't MLB be able to post something to the effect that all game equipment (baseballs, caps, gloves, etc) remains MLB property within the stadium? That would give them ownership of any baseballs they wanted to retreive.

yankeeno7 · September 23, 2009 4:10AM

<< Wouldn't MLB be able to post something to the effect that all game equipment (baseballs, caps, gloves, etc) remains MLB property within the stadium? That would give them ownership of any baseballs they wanted to retreive. >>

That would be very fan unfriendly and p*ss off a lot of people especially with the high ticket prices. That is one of the charms about going to a MLB game. It happens with bats too!

I would have certainly held out on Jose Lopez to get me some fine memorabilia...why the heck not? Gosh, I'd love a Griffey Jr signed bat and signed batting gloves!

lawnmowerman · September 23, 2009 4:34AM

It's the Ray's you're talking about. The team where 2,000 paid attendees is a good night.

Any home run or foul ball hit at the Trop immediately gets retrieved by securtiy and is taken back to the equipment room where it's cleaned and resused the next night.

TomGshotput · September 23, 2009 7:25AM

My understanding is that when balls go into the either the home team or Major League Baseball still have ownershipt. For a variety of reasons, they have always given up the right to the fans. Does anyone have any further details about this case?

storm888 · September 23, 2009 9:09AM

"...My understanding is that when balls go into the either the home team or Major League Baseball still have ownershipt. For a variety of reasons, they have always given up the right to the fans. Does anyone have any further details about this case? ..."

///////////////////////////////

I cannot find a MLB rule, but the courts are pretty likely
to continue to accept the theory of "abandoned property."

At no time, as far as I can tell, does ANY team have an
ownership interest in the ball. The balls seem to be MLB
property, at least until they are "abandoned."

It would be easy - suicidally unpopular - for MLB to make
a rule that fans had to "give it back" if requested, but I
don't expect that to ever happen.

.....................

Some auction houses, from time to time, have offered to
pay rewards/bounties for significant hit-balls. That practice
is now really rare, due to the liability the reward-offeror
might face if the fans were to cripple/kill each other trying
to wrestle for the ball.

I think Heritage offered a ridiculous amount for one of the
Bonds balls, and then withdrew the offer before the ball
was hit.

WinPitcher · September 23, 2009 9:50AM

I think they only have ownership if it lands in the bullpen or other similar area.

Isn't that how McGwire got that ball from that groundskeeper kid?

Steve

vladguerrero · September 23, 2009 9:53AM

many sports teams announce during the game that balls/pucks exiting the field of play can be kept by fans, obviously relinquishing ownership. the reason for this however is to negate responsibility for injuries caused.

storm888 · September 23, 2009 10:19AM

"...to negate responsibility for injuries caused. .."

//////////////////////////////

With a TINY few notable exceptions, there really is not
much legal liability. It is SUPER hard to maintain a lawsuit
for damages suffered while watching an athletic contest.

The back of the ticket sorta lays out the simple ground
rules: "If You Get Whacked, It Ain't Our Fault."

The MLB/NHL spectator-safety record is EXCELLENT.

I go to movies and constantly see folks in the audience
doing the "slip and fall" dance when they step in spilled
sodas.

Unless we wanna watch sports behind a glass-bubble,
there really are not many more safety enhancements we
can employ.

Folks who wanna be safer can buy tickets behind nets
and screens at most parks. The rest of us best just pay
attention to the action on the field.

Pigs · September 23, 2009 11:47AM

Hey guys, I talked today to one of the Mariner's post game hosts and asked him about what happened in this instance last night. I saw part of the game but not the Lopez homerun so I was going by akuracy's account of what happened. He said the guy who caught the ball was first asked if he would be willing to give up the homerun ball because of the meaning it had for Jose. When he refused they asked him to come out to the concourse to negotiate. The offer Lopez or the Mariners gave him was a autographed Lopez jersey and an autographed Lopez bat along with a signed ball. The guy refused all of this and I believe he was upset when he went back to his seat because he was missing the game. I guess he has every right to keep the ball, but that ball doesn't seem to add up in value to what the Mariners offered. Thoughts? Take care. Doug

CNote · September 23, 2009 11:52AM

The guy was probably hoping Jose would offer him money or something....that's my opinion of it. Or, he was hoping for a Griffey auto'd jersey. The guy sounds like a greedy jerk.

pdub1819 · September 23, 2009 11:52AM

The guy who caught the ball doesn't seem very intelligent. How could that ball mean so much to him? I guess everyone has their own reasons.

Pigs · September 23, 2009 11:56AM

<< The guy was probably hoping Jose would offer him money or something....that's my opinion of it. Or, he was hoping for a Griffey auto'd jersey. The guy sounds like a greedy jerk. >>

This was exactly my response when I heard he refused. I also thought something Ichiro might have been asked for. Who knows his reasoning.

TomGshotput · September 23, 2009 12:04PM

<< The guy who caught the ball doesn't seem very intelligent. How could that ball mean so much to him? I guess everyone has their own reasons. >>

Why would a few scribbles on a different ball mean anything to him?

I cannot understand this. You make offers, counteroffers, accept, reject or negotiate. If the guy was upset about missing the game, why did he leave? If it was really worth a lot ot the player why didn't he offer cash?

storm888 · September 23, 2009 12:12PM

<< .........The offer Lopez or the Mariners gave him was a autographed Lopez jersey and an autographed Lopez bat along with a signed ball. The guy refused all of this and I believe he was upset when he went back to his seat because he was missing the game. I guess he has every right to keep the ball, but that ball doesn't seem to add up in value to what the Mariners offered. Thoughts?....... >>

///////////////////////////////////

Yikes.

I would have negotiated my tail off and dumped the caught ball
the moment I was SURE they had hit their max.

I guess that fan has no plan to get a Lopez siggy on that ball.

............

2 stoooooooooooped 4 me 2 understand.

yankeeno7 · September 23, 2009 12:23PM

Yeah, give it up for that..now he goes home with a 10 dollar baseball really. I doubt he is a HUGE Jose Lopez fan. Maybe he was thinking of future negotiations OR that was not an accurate offer.

MICHAELDIXON · September 23, 2009 1:30PM

I would have taken the offer!

TheTalkingWalnut · September 23, 2009 1:59PM

If there's anything that People Vs Larry Flynt taught me, it was that the concept of America as a nation of laws not of men is a good thing. This fan was the lawful owner of said property; it's his decision how to dispose of it or not at all.

That being said, I would have given it to Lopez gratis. But that's just an old hippie who believes in rights and all sorts of other, unpopular, socialist doctrines speaking.

storm888 · September 23, 2009 2:28PM

Lopez promised his sister on her deathbed that
he would hit at least 20 homeruns in her honor.

IF the promise had been 25, the subject ball would
likely have greater value to him. Or, maybe he is
trying to collect ALL of the 2009 balls.

If he gets traded and there is LOTS of publicity, the
# 25 ball could have some good future-value, BUT I
still would have cut my best deal last night.

vladguerrero · September 23, 2009 2:56PM

<< "...to negate responsibility for injuries caused. .."

//////////////////////////////

With a TINY few notable exceptions, there really is not
much legal liability. It is SUPER hard to maintain a lawsuit
for damages suffered while watching an athletic contest.

The back of the ticket sorta lays out the simple ground
rules: "If You Get Whacked, It Ain't Our Fault."

The MLB/NHL spectator-safety record is EXCELLENT.

I go to movies and constantly see folks in the audience
doing the "slip and fall" dance when they step in spilled
sodas.

Unless we wanna watch sports behind a glass-bubble,
there really are not many more safety enhancements we
can employ.

Folks who wanna be safer can buy tickets behind nets
and screens at most parks. The rest of us best just pay
attention to the action on the field. >>

That's my point, if they claimed ownership of the ball it could complicate things if people who attempt to seek damages, no matter how explicit they are about being there at your own risk and the the reality of what that recourse (none) would be. From my experience when stadium personnel swarm people for stuff like this there are certain people whose personalities make them go into turtle mode and hide in their shell and be unresponsive. I once saw a fan increase an offer up tp $1k for a signed Guerrero hat that a fan in his section won, he wanted it for his son who was at the game with him. The lady basically felt cornered, had no interest in it just felt that by giving it up she might be getting screwed but by keeping it she won something. The Lopez offer was mighty fine, I would have taken that stuff and ran.

akuracy503 · September 23, 2009 5:53PM

By the way the "Fan" who caught this ball looked in his late 20's , stereotypical meathead looking guy with a permanent frown and a chip on his shoulder, I gather this just by his body language and facial expression during the time cameras were on him.

The guy is a complete moron and has no sense or reasoning...he just wanted to be an angry asswipe that night.

PIGS - by the way who did you speak to? So I gather in the end Jose never got the ball eh? Lopez lost two family members this year I believe...2009 will be never forgotten in his mind. Congratulations on HR #25.

WinPitcher · September 23, 2009 9:15PM

I don't get what the big deal is about HR 25? Has baseball become such a me game and not a team game?

yeah i understand he promised his sister he would hit 20 home runs.

I could see if this home run had some special statistical significance but IMO it doesn't.

Both Lopez and the fan need to get it right.

Steve

Pigs · September 24, 2009 12:43AM

<< By the way the "Fan" who caught this ball looked in his late 20's , stereotypical meathead looking guy with a permanent frown and a chip on his shoulder, I gather this just by his body language and facial expression during the time cameras were on him.

The guy is a complete moron and has no sense or reasoning...he just wanted to be an angry asswipe that night.

PIGS - by the way who did you speak to? So I gather in the end Jose never got the ball eh? Lopez lost two family members this year I believe...2009 will be never forgotten in his mind. Congratulations on HR #25. >>

Matt Pittman works pre and post game radio with the M's. He stays in Seattle to do the shows when they travel but he and the traveling reporter do the shows together. Since I didn't see the Lopez HR I went by your account when I saw him yesterday. He was ready to answer before I finished, saying the guy did not give back the ball after all the offers. The info was officially from the reporter in Tampa I guess. I will talk to him soon, but like many here have said, I suspect more than money he wanted something from Griffey or Ichiro. I'll PM you when I get word on what he really wanted.

larryallen73 · September 24, 2009 12:46AM

I agree with Winpitcher, what the heck is so big about homerun number 25!? I had not heard but apparently 25 is the new 30!?

It's just silly that people care so much about every single "milestone." What if he hits 30? The skys the limit then!

The fan sounds like an idiot but so does the player. It's just a baseball.

stown · September 24, 2009 1:55AM

I'm trying to see things from fan's perspective.

Maybe he's just contempt that he caught a HR and doesn't care what Lopez offered. Sure, the perceived monetary value of a signed jersey, hat, ball, and whatever is several fold compared to a blank game used ball. However, you can't put a dollar number on an emotional attachment.

For example, I've been to thousands of MLB games and only caught 1 foul ball (Buddy Bell). It happened over 21 years ago but still remember those 10 seconds like it was yesterday.

Hypothetically if Buddy came to me and made an offer, it would take A LOT for me to consider giving up a fond childhood memory. Don't get me wrong, for the right items, I would but admittedly, I would be VERY unreasonable.

/ $0.02

shagrotn77 · September 24, 2009 2:17AM

What the meathead who caught the ball doesn't realize is that the moment Lopez hits HR # 26 this year his ball will be WORTHLESS. I'm all for negotiating, but guys that hold out for too much usually get much less than they wanted in the first place. It's due to a combination of greed and stupidity.

WinPitcher · September 24, 2009 3:32AM

We have no idea why the fan insisted on keeping the ball.

We can suppose all we want.

Steve

storm888 · September 24, 2009 3:58AM

<< We have no idea why the fan insisted on keeping the ball.

We can suppose all we want.

Steve >>

/////////////////////////////

Very true.

I wish the TV-news guys would track him down.

But, the first news story will make the ball MORE valuable.

Tedw9 · September 25, 2009 10:02AM

Apparently a reporters brother caught the ball and has posted the story online. Here is their side of things.

Fans Side of Story

SOM · September 25, 2009 10:24AM

Pretty dumb story, but she's a darned good writer!

storm888 · September 25, 2009 10:35AM

Update 1

STORY UPDATE:

On Tuesday, BayNews9.com editor Kelli Malafronte posted the following blog about an incident that happened to her brother, Sean Malafronte.

Since then, the story has gone national, with a Seattle newspaper weighing in.

Also, it has since been reported nationally why the Seattle player, Jose Lopez, who hit the home run wanted the ball back.

Lopez has played this season in memory of his deceased sister and wanted the home run ball as a personal memento because he had dedicated any home runs he hit to her. Sean did not know that when the incident took place at the game.

Home Run Hoopla

With that in mind, we wanted to know your thoughts on whether Sean should have given the home run ball back.

The Mariners organization said they had no involvement beyond the standard request of offering up a trade for the ball, which Sean said he never received.

"I would have listened if one of the mangers/representatives had come up to me and talked to me after the game and said you can work something out with him," he said. "But nobody from the Mariners ever came up to me. Some of these comments said I was holding out for money. That wasn't it. Nobody ever told me why they wanted the ball back."

The Rays organization offered an apology on Friday.

"The actions that occurred Tuesday night involving Mr. Sean Malafronte do not reflect the attitude of our organization. Ensuring a positive experience for our fans at Tropicana Field has and always will be our most important corporate value," said Rick Vaughn, VP of Communications. "We would like to offer our most sincere apologies to Mr. Malafronte and invite him to be our guest at a future Rays game."

30

storm888 · September 25, 2009 10:38AM

Seattle PI Weighs In

storm888 · September 25, 2009 10:52AM

"...Mariners broadcaster Dave Sims criticized the fan during the telecast, questioning why
the guy wouldn't just exchange the ball for some sort of goods from the Mariners..."

///////////////////////////////////////////

Because the arrogant THUGS and their bubba-escort with a pistola
NEVER offered such an exchange?

Posted by unregistered user at 9/24/09 8:27 p.m.

"I wrote the original blog, which you can read here http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2009/9/23/524583.html?title=Blog:+Rays+fan+told+to+give+homerun+ball+back+ and can tell you security never told my brother why the player wanted the ball, nor were there any offers of an exchange. Kelli Malafronte ,,"

..........
...............
..................

"The Rays organization offered an apology on Friday.

"The actions that occurred Tuesday night involving Mr. Sean Malafronte do not reflect the attitude of our organization. Ensuring a positive experience for our fans at Tropicana Field has and always will be our most important corporate value," said Rick Vaughn, VP of Communications. "We would like to offer our most sincere apologies to Mr. Malafronte and invite him to be our guest at a future Rays game."

THAT really is the least you people can do, AFTER pulling that
kinda carp on a paying customer.

Better get your employees/agents under control before they
mess with somebody less jolly than Sean and his family.

.........

From Trop Field Rules:

"Stadium operations officials at Tropicana Field will follow these procedures in addition to the rules and regulations currently existing at the facility."

"The Rays would like all fans to review the current Tropicana Field rules and regulations which include the following:"

1)Stay Alert: Baseballs hit into the stands can be dangerous. Fans may keep any baseballs hit into the stands.

storm888 · September 25, 2009 11:26AM

The Fan Speaks.................

Posted by unregistered user at 9/25/09 5:34 a.m.

Hi .this is sean.I respect everybody's opinion and realize that alot of things happen at baseball games that never get anything written in a paper or on a blog.If the a security

guard would have came up to me and said...hey the mariners might want the ball back...we will just sit here and wait for someone from the mariners to talk with you about

that.the player might want the ball back." and if the mariners rep would have asked ..well you can keep the ball...butlopez wants the ball back for whatever reason and after the

game and maybe you guys can work something out..if that was the case...i wouldnt mind.BUT I HAD 6 SECURITY GUARDS AND THEN A COP out of nowhere and take me by my

arm out of my seat.i asked why it was necessary and he never answered.I was very calm and rays security was saying that hey you have to give the ball back...those are the

rules.now there are some security guards that are ok.i go to alot of games.but however the main man roger and two security guards were very angry and said i had to give the

ball back...just trying to muscle me.and they brought in a police officer who was very quick to snap and just waiting for me to lose my cool...i didnt...they never told me why they

wanted the ball...and i just didnt appreciate how all of it was handled.it was just wrong.but things happen..what can you do?i ended up keeping the ball.it may be just a home

run ball to some people ...but when you spend alot of money to watch the game and going through all that stuff...i wasnt about to let it go..its not just on the rays or security or

police officer who i wish i got his name...but the mariners for not sending anybody down to at least come talk to me.for all i know the rays security and police were gonna take

me in alley and just try to take the ball from me lol..i had no idea.but like i said situations come up and you just gotta deal with it and people..if there rude or not. dont know if

my comment went through becasue it was long...i respect everyones iopinion and im kinda upset that the seattle commentators were saying that stuff becassue they were up in

the press box and i was in the bleachers dealing with this...i did not know why jose lopez wanted the ball...all they had to do was bring someone from the mariners out there to

explain it and or say to talk to lopez after the game and he will work something out or tell you why he wants the ball back. i would never accept money for the ball...he hit it why

should i make money off that...the mariners never offered anythin to me as far as jersey or bats.i was upset becasue of the way i was being ushered out like i just robbed a

liquor store .that mariners announcer didnt know the situation.he was just i guess commenting because he was so angry.

////////////////////////////////////////

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

The Father of The Fan Speaks..................

Posted by Bob from orlando at 9/25/09 10:39 a.m.

Hello Seattle! -I am Sean's father, and was sitting next to him at the game in question. First of all, I can state as fact that at no time was any exchange for the ball mentioned.

When Sean asked who wanted the ball, again, he was given no answer. All he was told was-You have to give the ball back! No request, no explanation, just demands from the

security personnel from the Rays. Then an armed local police officer from St. Petersburg Florida came over to him in the stands, grabbed his upper arm, and pulled him out of his

seat. He told Sean, you have to come with us! The five or six security personnel and police officer then took him down the stairs despite his questions as to what what going on?

They questioned him again in the lower tunnel threatening to take him "back to their office" in a threatening tone. All this time the police officer still had him by the arm. The

reason he protested in the stands was because they gave him no explanation of anything, yet forced him from his seat and his family. I followed them downstairs because the

way they were trying to intimidate him, I couldn't rule out possible bodily harm.(As in, he tried to fight us and we had to subdue him. At no time did he respond back physically to

the officers or security personnel.)

I could not believe what was going on. Sean asked them-who wants the ball? Lopez, the Mariners? If so, he told them he'd talk only to the Mariner representative. The Rays

security again refused to tell him who wanted the ball, and even went so far as to tell him "MLB says you have to give the ball back!"

I don't think, anyone else in that same situation would believe someone could be dragged out of their seat, taken away and threatened to be taken to "their office" would act

any differently than my son.

Again, at no time did anyone relay any message from the Mariners as suggested by Perez that"they offered him anything he wanted for the ball". I don't blame the ballplayer-he

was probably told that the Mariners tried to get the ball from the fan. Unfortunately, the only ones who may have known this if that was true was the Rays security personnel,

and they relayed none of that to Sean. They only demanded he give the ball back.As for your announcer Mr. Sims, I can only assume that Sean knew of the offers, or the

situation with Perez's sister, which Sean did not. My own sister died from cancer at 22, and I can whole-heartedly understand the situation of Lopez and his sister. Please

understand the situation of Sean, who unknowing of the situation of Lopez, was dragged out of his seat, taken down the stairs to a tunnel, then threatened and intimidated

into an attempt to give the ball back.He did not give the ball back, and I support him, and condemn only the Rays and their organization by not having stepped up to date and at

minimum, apoligize to Sean and his family who were with him that night. In the words of "Frazier", good night Seattle! And I mean that in a good way. Our prayers to Jose Lopez

and his family for their loss..

TheTalkingWalnut · September 25, 2009 12:28PM

Well????...................

Anybody want to tell me where (if this is true of course) this guy is wrong?

My family, both sides, have been big baseball fans for decades. My aunt just turned 100 in August in Mass and I bet she can tell you tonight's Sawx starting lineup closer than the first dozen pink capped sorority girlz you can find staggering out of the club.

On the other side, I posted in Felicia's latest contest the 1931 algebra book with a Indians/Yankees scorecard written by my grandmother and her sisters. Ruth and 'Gherig' both went deep that day.

That being said, and having been to hundreds of games myself, from old old Royals Stadium in the late 60s to Fenway in the 70s to Exhibition Stadium in the 80s watching Danny Ainge play second for the Jays to Candlestick to Texas ARod Stadium or whatever they call it on up, I am aware of only 1 foul ball ever coming my family's way.

1987, old Municipal Stadium. I wasn't there but Paul Molitor, in the middle of his hitting streak fouled one off into the cheap seats and my pops ended up with it. It's a worthless ball to Molitor, to the cops, and to everyone else, but to me it's worth more than a hummer from Ms Molitor.

I don't care if the guy who caught this ball was Adolf Hilter and Saddam Hussein's gay lovechild. He has the same rights that George Washington has, which occur to me to be that it's his damned ball. And if I was in his shoes, I pray that I'd have the courage to stand up to eight rentacops and the Tazer of the Law to keep my property. Otherwise this country is in worser shape than the dumbass politicians say it is.

vladguerrero · September 25, 2009 1:16PM

"Sean said the same thing happened at a game last year with an Evan Longoria homerun ball. Security said Longoria wanted it back. Sean said no then too. They could get it signed for him. Fearing the old switcheroo, Sean said no again. He later waited after the game and asked Longoria if he really wanted the ball back. He didn't. He eventually got it signed."

What a douche bag organization! They sure know how to treat the few paying fans they have ....(Borat Voice) NOT! Maybe the heat should be focused more on the scum bag security guys. Back in the day at Montreal Expos games the security guys had their on little business. They would retrieve home run balls (there was a fairly large gap between the stands and the OF wall), sign foul ball certificate of authenticity and mark HOMERUN (which they where supposed to be using when fans got foul balls) and the players name, then sell them to a well known Montreal sports memorabilia dealer who would hock them on eBay. They always refused to stop the College kids from smoking weed in the bleachers but they sure hauled a** to get those HR balls.

Pigs · September 25, 2009 2:03PM

I would just like to let people know that if this story is true, and by reading it, it does seem accurate, I would like to appologize for claiming he was offered Lopez items for the ball and that he was holding out for something from Griffey or Ichiro. I thought the source of my information who works for the Mariners broadcast knew the facts from the Mariners perspective. I should of held off and not posted a thing until all was reported and all the facts were given. My bad, and I'm sorry. Sounds like a ugly situation that I hope gets corrected by the Rays, Mariners and MLB. Thanks. Doug

storm888 · September 25, 2009 2:58PM

"...I probably should of held off and not posted a thing until all was reported..."

//////////////////////////

The story reported by your source was the same
one that Dave Sims was spinning from the booth
during and after the incident.

Your source and everybody else likely thought "surely
that loud-mouthed fool Sims" would not announce as
FACT a story he sucked out of his imagination. He should
be dumped for wrongfully stirring the hate-pot against
the hapless fan.

This story is still pretty far from over, but I have no clue
how it will end.

metrotheme · September 26, 2009 10:32AM

Sometime during the early / mid 1990's I went to a Mets game and had seats in the picnic area late in the season. Usually I was pretty good with getting autographs out there and that night I got there a bit later than usual and got like one or two. A bit dejected, I sat near the bullpen in hopes of catching someone at the end of the game.
In the later innings of the game, a rookie by the name of Wil Cordero gets up for the Expos. A ball comes screaming my way. It hits a row behind me and I scramble to get it. Little did I know it was his first homerun. Within a few minutes, security comes up to me and tells me that it's his first homerun and they'll give me an autographed ball by the bullpen in exchange for his HR ball. Being that I got shut out at the beginning of the game, I quickly make the trade. Of course AFTER making the trade, a few adults come up to me and tell me I could have held out and asked for stuff. At the time Gary Carter was on the Expos and I would have asked for a ball from him, but what did I know?
I wrote Cordero the next season without a SASE telling him the story how I returned his HR ball and I hope that he enjoyed it and that I didn't get an autograph from him. About a month later, in an envelope written in his hand was a signed rookie card from Cordero. I still have both items.
That's really foul that the security just snatched him up like that, but I believe at most sporting events if you don't go when security asks you the first time, they can use force as you are being "disruptive". I'm sure a lawyer can clarify this. I would have asked for something signed by Griffey in that situation knowing what I know now.

akuracy503 · September 26, 2009 10:57AM

Just now getting caught up on this thread, thanks for all of those who chimed in and kept this topic alive with the new developments.

Pigs - No worries about your sources or attempt to share with the board. I'm glad to hear the fan spoke out.

Storm888 - always a pleasure getting your facts on topics.

Let's hope the Mariners back office makes some contacts with good old Sean and has a nice surprise waiting for Jose when he gets back to Seattle.

storm888 · September 26, 2009 11:37AM

"...That's really foul that the security just snatched him up like that, but I believe at most sporting events if you don't go when security asks you the first time, they can use force as you are being "disruptive". ..."

////////////////////////////////////////////////////

If they pulled that carp on me, they would be explaining their
conduct to the judge.

In general, "force" needs to be proportionate and reasonable.

BUT, in FL the trespass statutes are such that THUG renta-cops -
backed up by the LEOs that usually man the speed-traps - can
issue a Trespass Warning/Notice for any reason they make up.

The agents of the owner - which can NOW be ON-DUTY or off-duty
cops - can ask you to leave, escort you out, and arrest you if you
refuse to boogie.

Lucky for the fan that he had lots of witnesses or this could have
gone down differently.

..............................

Before the year 2000, ON-DUTY cops were restrained from
working for the landed gentry for the purpose of conveying
an owner's Trespass Notice or Warning.

"...section 810.08(1), Florida Statutes, "[w]hoever, without being authorized, licensed, or invited, willfully enters or remains in any structure or conveyance, or, having been authorized, licensed, or invited, is warned by the owner or lessee of the premises, or by a person authorized by the owner or lessee, to depart and refuses to do so, commits the offense of trespass in a structure or conveyance..."

The statute was amended, in 2000:

"As used in this section, the term 'authorized person' or 'person authorized' means any owner, or his or her agent, or any law enforcement officer whose department has received written authorization from the owner, or his or her agent, to communicate an order to leave the property in the case of a threat to public safety or welfare."

"Section 810.08(3), as amended by section 4, Chapter 2000-369, Laws of Florida, defines the term "person authorized" to mean "any owner or lessee, or his or her agent, or any law enforcement officer whose department has received written authorization from the owner or lessee, or his or her agent, to communicate an order to depart the property in the case of a threat to public safety or welfare."

YET, the FL Constitution still says:

"...Article VII, s.10, Fla. Const., prohibits the use of public funds for a private purpose, by precluding the state, a county or municipality or agency thereof from using its taxing power or credit to aid any private interest or individual..."

......................

In my experience, if you do biznez in FL, you better
have Bubba on your team, or be prepared to spend
even more money on lawyers fighting with Bubba.

Government by big-bellied sheriff is still alive and well
in FL.

storm888 · September 26, 2009 7:01PM

Might Be A Collectible Ball..............

Lopez Putting Himself In The History Books

September 23, 2009 at 10:04 am

Last night, Jose Lopez hit his 25th home run. One reason that this is notable is that he now has more homers than walks, of which he has 24. Historically, this is fairly unique. There are only thirty players in baseball history who have finished a season with 25 or more homers and fewer than 25 walks.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////

It appears that the next round in this saga may be
the release of the Sims 7-minute tirade --- IF it
has not already been destroyed.

That Sims was not arrested for inciting and encouraging
violence against the fan is outrageous.

Hopefully, the fan will sic an evil lawyer on Sims.

Bottom9th · September 27, 2009 7:33AM

Sounds typical of the Rays organization!

jeffcbay · September 27, 2009 2:08PM

On August 12, 1990, when I was 13 years old, I caught an Alan Trammell home run ball at Cleveland Municipal Stadium. I remember the date because we sped home and taped all of the game's highlights on the news channels because you could see me on TV. It was the first, and still the only ball I ever got at a game. You know what I did with that ball? My friends and I used it in one of our random games of home run derby at the local park, and it was fouled off into the first base side woods, never to be seen again. I was more thrilled to HIT that ball than I was catching it.

As an adult, now the first thing I do EVERY time I go to a ballgame, is I look around and find the closest kid, who seems to be a real baseball fan, and I decide if I get a ball that day, I'm giving it to that kid.

If what allegedly happened to this guy is true, then he has a right to be ticked off. But I think these greedy "ball hawks" need to be punched in the nose. Get a job.

Fan catches ball...pursuaded to give it up for the players collection....

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