eBayers cancelling auctions if they don't like the price

Bayard1908 · August 30, 2009 12:27AM

I've noticed a couple eBay sellers recently who canceled their coin auctions shortly before they were scheduled to end. The coins were subsequently relisted shortly thereafter.

I presume these people didn't like the interim price and decided not to gamble on snipers bidding the coin higher. I don't think eBay should allow this.

seatedcollector · August 30, 2009 12:35AM

why not ?

sinin1 · August 30, 2009 12:37AM

I don't like it either

but sellers do all the work and are getting sucked dry by the eBayPAYPAL machine

Bochiman · August 30, 2009 12:38AM

It's happened for quite awhile......
It's from sellers who don't have the balls to start the "auction" at a price they are willing to take.
Once I have that happen from a seller once or twice, I avoid them.

jesbroken · August 30, 2009 12:47AM

True auctions are a "true" gamble on ebay these days. The bidding and even looking is down so low its scary as a seller, so many are doing what the feel they have to(I can't really blame them, as noone wants to give their coins away). I have changed to BIN with best offer. At least, you don't loose your coin if no one snipe bids. Just look at the BST here which has faded away from what it was 6 months ago. ATS the money marketplace has dropped to an offer or two a day. I have never seen coin offers being ttt'd for 7 or more times like they are now and without a sale. Everyone is looking for the crashed coin market prices and I don't think we have a crashed coin market---Yet! It can happen but I hope it does not.
Jim

Bayard1908 · August 30, 2009 12:49AM

<< why not ? >>

Unless there's a mistake in the listing, or the item has legitimately been sold elsewhere, I think the auction should be forced to run. When an auctioneer advertises a no-minimum-no-reserve live auction, he can't get away with pulling this kind of crap.

Canceling the auction wastes the time of innumerable bidders who went to the trouble of calculating how much to bid.

commoncents123 · August 30, 2009 12:50AM

I have never in my 5 years on ebay had a seller do that to me. Seems pretty isolated and far fetched?

tmcsr69 · August 30, 2009 12:52AM

I'm guilty. A week or two ago I had a NGC certified MS65RD wheat cent, valued at about $20 that I put up for auction. Started so that it would Sunday evening with opening price of .01 and no reserve. Not a hot coin by no means, but felt I could get at least $10 for it. After 6 days I had 1 watcher and no bids with very few lookers. I canceled it as I didn't want to let it go for 1 cent. I relisted it at a fixed price of $20 and free shipping and sold it within a week.

dantheman984 · August 30, 2009 12:53AM

<< I have never in my 5 years on ebay had a seller do that to me. Seems pretty isolated and far fetched? >>

Never happened to me either.

Wolf359 · August 30, 2009 12:53AM

<< 

<< why not ? >>

Unless there's a mistake in the listing, or the item has legitimately been sold elsewhere, I think the auction should be forced to run. When an auctioneer advertises a no-minimum-no-reserve live auction, he can't get away with pulling this kind of crap.

Canceling the auction wastes the time of innumerable bidders who went to the trouble of calculating how much to bid. >>

Hey, wake up. Your rip just got pulled. Live with it.

abitofthisabitofthat · August 30, 2009 12:55AM

I sell a lot on ebay, and would never do this. So many people snipe, that the price an hour before an auction ends really does not mean much. I have seen this behavior from newer seller who are hesitant about the process. It can be a bit disconcering to see a $200 item going for $20 with only 10 minutes left, but that is not indicative of where it will end.

Julian · August 30, 2009 12:59AM

I have had some silver items sell for quite a bit less than melt. I have not pulled an auction because the price was too low, but I have definitely been disappointed by some.

19Lyds · August 30, 2009 1:02AM

<< True auctions are a "true" gamble on ebay these days. >>

<< Unless there's a mistake in the listing, or the item has legitimately been sold elsewhere, I think the auction should be forced to run. When an auctioneer advertises a no-minimum-no-reserve live auction, he can't get away with pulling this kind of crap. >>

eBay should never ever be compared to a "live" auction.

<< Canceling the auction wastes the time of innumerable bidders who went to the trouble of calculating how much to bid. >>

Whats that amount to? 5 seconds?

notwilight · August 30, 2009 1:02AM

<< It's happened for quite awhile......
It's from sellers who don't have the balls to start the "auction" at a price they are willing to take.
Once I have that happen from a seller once or twice, I avoid them. >>

It's not balls that are missing--unless perhaps they are female sellers. They are trying to attract buyers. Low start prices attract buyers and reserves put off buyers.

The problem with ebay is that buyers never know what is on there and don't check every day. If you have a rare and desirable coin like a PCGS 1794 half dollar, list it and bidders will show up. Guys looking for one might even get a call from friends who have seen it. But if you're selling a low priced more common coin, then you take a chance that nobody will see it that really wants it. There may be 1000 buyers in the US that want that coin but if only one shows up, then he wins the coin for one bid increment above the second bidder who is likely a dealer who doesn't really want the coin but will take it if he wins it at 50% back of bid...

Add to that all the junk on ebay--if you search for an 1856 large cent you'll get a bunch of junk you have to sort through before finding something nice. Buyers don't have time to do this daily.

There is a big difference between an ebay auctions and Heritage, Teletrade, B&M, and other coin auctions. The other coin auctions are scheduled, publish catalogs ahead of time, and buyers know when to check for the coins they are looking for. Lots of buyers show up for big auctions and even check teletrade twice a week. But if you're looking for an 18xx $1 in PCGS MS63 and haven't seen one for a month on ebay you're likely to quit checking.

So ebay's solution is to either pay reserve fees (very high and drive off bidders) or use BIN.

I use BIN for everything that isn't hot. Hot new mint produces I sell at auction and when there aren't enough buyers left for this item and the auction prices get lower than I want to accept, I switch to BIN. After I switch there are still a lot of buyers showing up one at a time to buy the item but one buyer doesn't make an auction--it takes at least 2.

I know some buyers think that a seller should be bound to sell at a huge loss because he listed it on ebay but most sellers are actually trying to make money. I know you want to revel and do your happy dance when you get something on ebay 50% back of bid but sellers don't really enjoy this nearly as much as buyers....I don't know what the right answer is but I see this thread as just a buyer saying, "I want my change to rip a seller at a huge loss and this seller isn't playing right. I may just take my ball and go home."

For the record, I don't do this.

--Jerry

19Lyds · August 30, 2009 1:09AM

I smell trouble brewing............ BTW, when I have a $10 coin that has 1 watcher and 1 .99 cent bid, I tell my balls to shut up since they are not capable of making rational decisions. If there are 5 or 6 watchers, I'll let it ride fully realizing that I only need 2 of those watchers to bid.
My experience with eBay is that a lot of the watchers are actually folks wanting to see what the auction closes at and are not necessarily bidders.

garsmith · August 30, 2009 1:16AM

If they are cancelling an auction near the end and than re-listing; eBay should force them to sell the coin to the last bid of the original auction. That would stop that practice real quick.

What you have to remember is smoetimes eBay is making them cancel an auction and re-list it due to smoe inconsistency found in the listing.

yellowkid · August 30, 2009 1:24AM

That is almost as annoying as a seller who has an unrealistic reserve to "protect" their investment, GGRRRRRRR!!!!!

19Lyds · August 30, 2009 1:25AM

<< That is almost as annoying as a seller who has an unrealistic reserve to "protect" their investment, GGRRRRRRR!!!!!

>>

I see nothing wrong with this at all.

Wolf359 · August 30, 2009 1:27AM

<< If they are cancelling an auction near the end and than re-listing; eBay should force them to sell the coin to the last bid of the original auction. That would stop that practice real quick.

What you have to remember is smoetimes eBay is making them cancel an auction and re-list it due to smoe inconsistency found in the listing. >>

I don't how eBay would "force" a seller to do that, I'd tell them to go pound sand. This is America, not the Soviet Union. If I choose to be a jerk, no
one can do anything about it.

I have a number of no reserve auctions running at the moment. The bidding is PATHETIC. Yup, I want to cancel and I would if I could afford it. But
I'm going to let them run and get slammed again. Thanks buyers.

mrpotatoheadd · August 30, 2009 1:27AM

<< If they are cancelling an auction near the end and than re-listing; eBay should force them to sell the coin to the last bid of the original auction. That would stop that practice real quick. >>

You mean the way eBay ended no-pay bidders by forcing them to pay for their winning bids? Oh- wait... that never happened. My bad.

droopyd · August 30, 2009 1:30AM

<< If I choose to be a jerk, no one can do anything about it. >>

Maybe the government can't, but the individuals you deal with sure can!

doh · August 30, 2009 1:32AM

<< have a number of no reserve auctions running at the moment. The bidding is PATHETIC. Yup, I want to cancel and I would if I could afford it. But
I'm going to let them run and get slammed again. Thanks buyers. >>

Jeez...I hope you're being sarcastic. How exactly is it the buyers fault for you getting "slammed?"

bhooks · August 30, 2009 1:34AM

<< 

<< It's happened for quite awhile......
It's from sellers who don't have the balls to start the "auction" at a price they are willing to take.
Once I have that happen from a seller once or twice, I avoid them. >>

It's not balls that are missing--unless perhaps they are female sellers. They are trying to attract buyers. Low start prices attract buyers and reserves put off buyers.

The problem with ebay is that buyers never know what is on there and don't check every day. If you have a rare and desirable coin like a PCGS 1794 half dollar, list it and bidders will show up. Guys looking for one might even get a call from friends who have seen it. But if you're selling a low priced more common coin, then you take a chance that nobody will see it that really wants it. There may be 1000 buyers in the US that want that coin but if only one shows up, then he wins the coin for one bid increment above the second bidder who is likely a dealer who doesn't really want the coin but will take it if he wins it at 50% back of bid...

Add to that all the junk on ebay--if you search for an 1856 large cent you'll get a bunch of junk you have to sort through before finding something nice. Buyers don't have time to do this daily.

There is a big difference between an ebay auctions and Heritage, Teletrade, B&M, and other coin auctions. The other coin auctions are scheduled, publish catalogs ahead of time, and buyers know when to check for the coins they are looking for. Lots of buyers show up for big auctions and even check teletrade twice a week. But if you're looking for an 18xx $1 in PCGS MS63 and haven't seen one for a month on ebay you're likely to quit checking.

So ebay's solution is to either pay reserve fees (very high and drive off bidders) or use BIN.

I use BIN for everything that isn't hot. Hot new mint produces I sell at auction and when there aren't enough buyers left for this item and the auction prices get lower than I want to accept, I switch to BIN. After I switch there are still a lot of buyers showing up one at a time to buy the item but one buyer doesn't make an auction--it takes at least 2.

I know some buyers think that a seller should be bound to sell at a huge loss because he listed it on ebay but most sellers are actually trying to make money. I know you want to revel and do your happy dance when you get something on ebay 50% back of bid but sellers don't really enjoy this nearly as much as buyers....I don't know what the right answer is but I see this thread as just a buyer saying, "I want my change to rip a seller at a huge loss and this seller isn't playing right. I may just take my ball and go home."

For the record, I don't do this.

--Jerry >>

Well stated , and I agree entirely.
Brian ~

Wolf359 · August 30, 2009 1:34AM

<< 

<< have a number of no reserve auctions running at the moment. The bidding is PATHETIC. Yup, I want to cancel and I would if I could afford it. But
I'm going to let them run and get slammed again. Thanks buyers. >>

Jeez...I hope you're being sarcastic. How exactly is it the buyers fault for you getting "slammed?" >>

Are you kidding? Most coins are Buy-it-now/Best Offer. You should see some "offers" I get from fully knowledgeable buyers. 50%? 30%? Everybody
is looking for a rip. It's disgusting. Eventually you have to sell and take a hit.

Wolf359 · August 30, 2009 1:35AM

<< 

<< If I choose to be a jerk, no one can do anything about it. >>

Maybe the government can't, but the individuals you deal with sure can! >>

I have no idea what that means since I was referring to eBay. What does it mean?

mrpotatoheadd · August 30, 2009 1:38AM

<< You should see some "offers" I get from fully knowledgeable buyers. 50%? 30%? Everybody is looking for a rip. >>

Actually 50% isn't a bad offer these days. I received an offer of $20 on a $350 coin (catalog value- $425) the other day.

Wolf359 · August 30, 2009 1:43AM

<< 

<< You should see some "offers" I get from fully knowledgeable buyers. 50%? 30%? Everybody is looking for a rip. >>

Actually 50% isn't a bad offer these days. I received an offer of $20 on a $350 coin (catalog value- $425) the other day. >>

I hear you. But that little bird inside me refuses to crack.

I don't think people understand that if everyone only paid $200 for a $350 coin that $350 is no longer the value, but $200 might be. It's a self-defeating
strategy where everyone loses.

droopyd · August 30, 2009 1:48AM

<< 

<< 

<< If I choose to be a jerk, no one can do anything about it. >>

Maybe the government can't, but the individuals you deal with sure can! >>

I have no idea what that means since I was referring to eBay. What does it mean? >>

I dunno, maybe specify who you think "can't so anything about it" so your meaning is clearer?

I'nm not sure that "being a jerk" is something one should aspire to.

cars · August 30, 2009 1:52AM

<< I've noticed a couple eBay sellers recently who canceled their coin auctions shortly before they were scheduled to end. The coins were subsequently relisted shortly thereafter.

I presume these people didn't like the interim price and decided not to gamble on snipers bidding the coin higher. I don't think eBay should allow this. >>

Why not? They allow it the other way round. I just received a message from a buyer today. "I made a mistake bidding on this item, Please cancel the sale, Thanks".

Buyers can do anything they like without repercussions why can't the sellers have a little something?

mrpotatoheadd · August 30, 2009 2:18AM

<< Buyers can do anything they like without repercussions why can't the sellers have a little something? >>

Why, because buyers are angelic and pure, while sellers are greedy and unethical, of course.

I'm surprised anyone would have to ask.

LeeG · August 30, 2009 2:26AM

Just lost my butt last night on 11 Top Pop RB Lincoln Cents. Lost money on all of them. That's the way the cookie crumbles some times.

commoncents05 · August 30, 2009 2:32AM

I have seen this happen numerous times on my watch list, especially lately.

-Paul

JrGMan2004 · August 30, 2009 2:42AM

<< I don't like it either

but sellers do all the work and are getting sucked dry by the eBayPAYPAL machine >>

Not only that, but buyers have become cheaper and cheaper over the years, always looking for a better deal. And there have been sellers that have popped up that seem to be willing to work on very small margins and are probably short on cashflow and willing to undercut to sell quicker.

SeaEagleCoins · August 30, 2009 3:12AM

<< 

<< why not ? >>

Unless there's a mistake in the listing, or the item has legitimately been sold elsewhere, I think the auction should be forced to run. When an auctioneer advertises a no-minimum-no-reserve live auction, he can't get away with pulling this kind of crap.

Canceling the auction wastes the time of innumerable bidders who went to the trouble of calculating how much to bid. >>

In a way, I really do agree with this...which is one of the reasons why I no longer sell on ebay. I did try BIN's and found them to be an exercise in futilty, with the only real winner being ebay/paypal.

The one thing that does perplex me though...is this... why is it that darn near every coin I try to win on ebay seems to always go thru the roof and beyond what I am willing to pay? The answer is simple... because I usually tried to sell the coins that were stagnant in my cases at shows... while when I am looking to buy, I go after the nicest stuff I can find.

As Russ and others have pointed out for years here, good coins get good bids... bad or common coins get what they are worth...

Boom · August 30, 2009 3:39AM

A word about ebay sellers cancelling their listings.

I can understand not wanting to take a severe pounding - so -
either set your opening bids at a minimum acceptable price OR

Just list it & forget it.

I just watched an early PCGS 65 Washington Key date go from
having one bid (the opening bid set by the seller) to 5 bids &
fully acceptable premium just within the last 20 seconds of the
auction.

He could have gotten scared and pulled it but he didn't.

I'm pretty sure he was freaking but he just let it go & the Market
brought it up to where it should have been, in the last few seconds.

Enough to give him Heart failure, I'm sure, if he was watching.

RedTiger · August 30, 2009 3:40AM

I don't understand the thinking behind cancelling. If a person is an experienced seller they already know the best times, the listing tricks etc. Canceling the auction and relisting with the same terms likely means less bidders next time. I mean, if I were bidding and then the auction is pulled, I am not going to bid next time. What might I expect if there is a problem in shipment, or I need a return? The seller that pulls an auction that has bids is likely a seller to avoid. Most of the serious bidders snipe. By canceling the seller is shooting themselves in the foot. Sure, occasionally there will be some hits, but there are also some cases where coins sail to the moon, the window when two snipers aim high. Experienced sellers know all of this, so I don't understand why anyone would cancel an auction with live bids (no reserve).

As for low offers, prices are down deal with it. Some sellers still think it is 2006 plus 10%, and expect to get more than they paid at the peak even. For example, I see one coin that keeps getting listed at buy-it-now, make offer for $530. I bought a similar coin at true auction at $230, which is the current fair market because three other coins sold in the $225 to $250 range. A 50% off offer for the $530 coin would still be over the current going market price. Should he be insulted? No, he should buy a vowel and get a clue as to the current market prices and stop asking so much for his coin if he is at all interested in selling. Sure a 10% offer for the $530 coin at $53 would be insulting, but a 40% offer would not be. For the low ball offers, auto reject is easy enough. A dealer's fair cash offer might well be $160 if the coin is retailing for $230, so even a 30% offer on the $530 coin at $150 is not really out of line--it is what a fair dealer might offer if they are buying for inventory.

mrpotatoheadd · August 30, 2009 3:55AM

<< For the low ball offers, auto reject is easy enough. >>

Just addressing this one point- I don't use auto reject because it's not uncommon for me to get several offers from the same potential buyer at one time, and if the overall deal works for me, I am willing to accept a low offer on an item or two that I would not otherwise be interested in.

cone10 · August 30, 2009 3:58AM

SeaEagleCoins, Boom and RedTiger excellent posts and I totally agree with all three.

To quote Russ once again "my service is best used for liquidation rather than as a retail sales outlet."

HoledandCreative · August 30, 2009 4:05AM

If a Seller cancels a sale early and I really want the coin, I would write and ask the problem. Then I would ask for the best price and either buy or move on. Not a big deal. If I was just looking for a good buy, I would start looking for the next opportunity. There are many on eBay daily.

mrpotatoheadd · August 30, 2009 4:14AM

There are lots of different kinds of coins sold on eBay. IMO, the same sales technique doesn't work equally well for all of them (for the coin's owner, anyway). Coins which are popular and in regular demand, with a large base of active eBay bidders, can be listed differently than scarcer, but more esoteric items.

Barbercoin · August 30, 2009 4:28AM

I was bidding on a couple of coins a few years back and both auctions were cancelled in the closing seconds. Boy, I was mad and vowed never to buy from these guys again. I'm not saying a seller can't do this, but after all it is an auction. Both the seller and the buyer should share the risk.

RBinTex · August 30, 2009 4:29AM

Has to be with at least 24 hours (now - unlike a while ago that some did it with a few seconds to go) left if there's bids I believe. It's their right to do so. Sux when you really want something.

PawPaul · August 30, 2009 4:50AM

It is a common practice , that even powersellers get away with . And the auction 's are cancelled even within the final 12 hours, with many of the coins reappearing

a short time later in a new auction . If ebay allows this on a perpetual basis - nothing you can do about it .

It is a crappy way to run an auction , but what u gonna do ?

mackdriver · August 30, 2009 5:03AM

In the last year i have gotten slammed selling using true auctions and losing some good change after all the ebay and paypal fee's.Any more i only use buy it now.I either get my price or i don't,if i don't,it goes back in the safe to fight another day.

RBinTex · August 30, 2009 5:11AM

Question: What assurance has Heritage, Teletrade, B&M, Stacks, DLRC, etc. given that THEY won't cancel auctions with less than x amount of time left?

Answer: ABSOLUTELY none!

In fact, their terms clearly carve out their sovereign right to in fact do so AT ANY TIME.

Total scumbuckets all of them - in this regard (including the ones that do it on eBay).

At least eBay lets buyers know it can't happen within 24 hours of auction ending (I believe).

mrpotatoheadd · August 30, 2009 5:15AM

Heritage Auctions: Auctioneer reserves the right to withdraw, prior to the close, any lots from the Auction.

Goldberg Auctions: Goldberg reserves the right to withdraw any lot at any time, even after the hammer has fallen, until the Purchaser has taken physical possession of the lot.

Teletrade: Teletrade reserves the right to withdraw any lot at any time, until the close of the Auction Sale.

Wolf359 · August 30, 2009 5:21AM

<< Heritage Auctions: Auctioneer reserves the right to withdraw, prior to the close, any lots from the Auction.

Goldberg Auctions: Goldberg reserves the right to withdraw any lot at any time, even after the hammer has fallen, until the Purchaser has taken physical possession of the lot.

Teletrade: Teletrade reserves the right to withdraw any lot at any time, until the close of the Auction Sale. >>

How absolutely utterly shocking. You mean until the moment that MY COIN is sold, I can change my mind?

Wow.

ocon4008 · August 30, 2009 5:29AM

My little sister has been selling on eBay for years now; not coins Disney collectables. She has always told me she shuts done during the summer because nobdy bids. She says its a seasonal thing. I can see her point for what she is selling, family oriented items; could the coin market also be seasonal?

Also, I seller does not have to pull the listing at the last minute. I have bought several items way under spot, and it seems they get lost in the mail and I just get a refund.

ziggy29 · August 30, 2009 5:35AM

<< Heritage Auctions: Auctioneer reserves the right to withdraw, prior to the close, any lots from the Auction.

Goldberg Auctions: Goldberg reserves the right to withdraw any lot at any time, even after the hammer has fallen, until the Purchaser has taken physical possession of the lot.

Teletrade: Teletrade reserves the right to withdraw any lot at any time, until the close of the Auction Sale. >>

Superior: You think we're really going to honor that $1 BIN?

PQType · August 30, 2009 5:44AM

I've had it done to me a few time. I actually had one seller say he no longer had the coin after I won one at about 60% of its value.

cone10 · August 30, 2009 6:53AM

August is the worst month to list on ebay wait until after Labor Day.

eBayers cancelling auctions if they don't like the price

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