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For all practical purposes, is shill bidding any worse than bidding against a hidden reserve?
PerryHall
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Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
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Other than that...there is no difference in my mind.
"Only that the shill can keep uping his bid, it's like a changing reserve."
True but if the shill stops at the predetermined "reserve" then its really the same issue which is what I think Perry is referring to.
Anything else would be a scam.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Only that the shill can keep uping his bid, it's like a changing reserve. >>
Doh brings up a good point, as always.
How many times have you seen a coin not sell at a BIN price, then is relisted as a true no reserve auction and end up hammering at a higher price than the BIN.
Often the result of the "I must win" mentality that a reserve or BIN listing does not involve.
So for that segment of the population that is afflicted with "I must win" syndrome shill bidding is worse.
For instance, if done on ebay from a 99 cent starting bid, the auction would be considered a true, no reserve auction. In this case, a shill makes that untrue.
<< <i>is shill bidding any worse than bidding against a hidden reserve? >>
yes because it is a moving target
K S
In that case both practices present the bidder with an unclear sense of demand. I quit bidding at Teletrade for most coins (not all) due to this.
If by hidden reserve you mean that it is clearly understood that there is a reserve, but you simply don't know what it is set at. Then yes - there is a big difference because shill bidding creates an artificial demand.
<< <i>Only that the shill can keep upping his bid, it's like a changing reserve. >>
If the shill gets greedy or unrealistic in his expectations, doesn't he run the risk of "buying" his own coin and then paying all the auction fees?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The other thing I've seen in live auctions is the fast hammer, where the auctioneer "trying to speed things up" hammers to a shill without acknowledging other bids.
<< <i>
<< <i>Only that the shill can keep upping his bid, it's like a changing reserve. >>
If the shill gets greedy or unrealistic in his expectations, doesn't he run the risk of "buying" his own coin and then paying all the auction fees? >>
not if he works for the auction co.
(wink wink)
K S
Not if the 'shiller' doesn't come through, and a 'Second Chance' is offered to the under-bidder.
<< <i>If the shill gets greedy or unrealistic in his expectations, doesn't he run the risk of "buying" his own coin and then paying all the auction fees?
Not if the 'shiller' doesn't come through, and a 'Second Chance' is offered to the under-bidder.
Sounds like a good reason to reject second chance offers.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire