Are coin shows finished?

291fifth · August 13, 2009 11:55PM

Has collecting now become mostly web oriented?

I know it has for me. I collect a very specialized item. At the last show I attended most dealers I asked about such items gave me a very quick brush-off.

Since I started this collection I have obtained 57 varieties. 5 of the 57 were purchased from dealers at shows (including three on the day I started the collection) and 52 were purchased from eBay sellers.

DoubleEagle59 · August 13, 2009 11:59PM

I would say NO.

But maybe in your case, for the very specialized collector, I would agree with you and say that purchasing via the internet provides you with the same opportunities as a coin show and perhaps a few more.

RTS · August 14, 2009 12:00AM

I hope not...for the last few years I have only purchased coins from the Baltimore show (this year may change as I'm planning on visiting the Philadelphia show in September)...I think every coin in my possession was purchased at a coin show.

RYK · August 14, 2009 12:02AM

I hope not. The social aspect of coin collecting, including meeting up with fellow collectors at shows, has always been very important to me. If it dies, my interest in coins will surely follow along with it.

bidask · August 14, 2009 12:03AM

<< Has collecting now become mostly web oriented?

I know it has for me. I collect a very specialized item. At the last show I attended most dealers I asked about such items gave me a very quick brush-off.

Since I started this collection I have obtained 57 varieties. 5 of the 57 were purchased from dealers at shows (including three on the day I started the collection) and 52 were purchased from eBay sellers. >>

I think you answered your own question.....for specialized collecting, it sounds like it has for you.

For the majority of other collectors, coin shows still provide the best venue for a diversified offering of an array of coins that a collector can hold in hand and inspect.

fivecents · August 14, 2009 12:09AM

NO.
Where else can you instantly cherrypick coins by looking at the coins in hand? My best coins and cherrypicks happen at coin shows via earlybird pass.

lkenefic · August 14, 2009 12:16AM

I'd have to say no... in fact, I'm now down to three coin purchase opportunities per year... all of the Baltimore shows...

jmcu12 · August 14, 2009 12:17AM

I would say no....and I hope not.

keep in mind that a lot of dealers at shows only bring certain items due to weight and space. so first off their inventory might not be as complete as at their b&m shop.

second at a a show time is money and there is still overhead so they might be more inclined to take a quick sale than to mess around with a variety hound. (no there is nothing wrong with that I am one myself. I am just stating a fact

)

lastly, on personal experience, some dealers don't want to know that you are seeking varieties so you might just keep that to youself unless they ask.

just a thought....thanks!

dorkkarl · August 14, 2009 12:54AM

alll the doom & gloom posts about coin shows & b&m dealers usually just cracks me up. if anything attendance at shows is UP, except at the ridiculously expensive (ie travel costs) shows. you go to the show down in springfield, it is packed shoulder to shoulder every time. countryside, itasca in chicago are consistent attractions to.

plus i would contend that there are MORE b&m dealers now then there were 10 years ago.

K S

morganbarber · August 14, 2009 12:55AM

The web has become HUGE in the hobby, but I think it may be one of those cases where the web keeps enough people interested in the hobby to actually be a benefit to the shows.

ambro51 · August 14, 2009 1:09AM

I think the more esoteric the coins sought, the more the internet plays a part. For once, I agree totally with good ol 291Fifth.

Now, If you are looking for VAMs, and have the patience to sort through and examine possibly five thousand Morgan dollars...then coin shows are your valhalla. If you are a good ol boy, and have lots of friends who collect and deal...then the social aspect of it all is supreme.

All depends also on how much you like to travel (drive, fly) and deal with the complications and time waste that that all entails.

From what I gather, the table rental fees, fast food, motel and airfare costs are eating most dealers up alive. The web is pretty well free.

coinmanic · August 14, 2009 1:20AM

As long as there are cranky wives to get away from, coin shows will flourish.

19Lyds · August 14, 2009 1:25AM

No.

If you are only shopping for one thing and its a "very specialized" item at that, why would you expect to find it at coin shows? Most dealers don't haul inventory which won't sell to a coin show.

IMO, specialized items require specialized hunts.

As for getting the brush off? Try collecting IKE Dollars............

ScarsdaleCoin · August 14, 2009 1:32AM

I think we may be seeing the end of the larger National Shows.... the move may be more towards more Regional Shows.... I say this because the past few years have seen less dealers traveling.... its much more hassle to go far distance that a dealer can not drive too....

I think Whitman is so far doing the best job in doing this on the east coast with Collectors Universe doin the best on the west coast....

Coinfest, Baystate, in Texas the Money Show, and of Course FUN in Florida

WTCG · August 14, 2009 1:34AM

Until the day when coins can be physically teletransported from one location to another there will still be coin shows.

PTVETTER · August 14, 2009 1:36AM

coins shows are always a better place to buy than the internet...

You can look at a coin in hand at a show, but not on the internet..

It's always better without exception, to purchase a coin you can see in hand..

RichieURich · August 14, 2009 1:45AM

I agree with most of the respondents - coin shows are not finished at all. A lot of our clients want to see coins in person, even though we have pix on our website. Many collectors realize that at a big show like Baltimore, FUN, or ANA, there are several hundred dealers and the collector can look through many more coins than could be examined on those dealers' websites, also some coins may not be on websites. And if a collector has a coin to sell, a coin show is a good place to go to try to sell it.

<< . . . If you are only shopping for one thing and its a "very specialized" item at that, why would you expect to find it at coin shows? Most dealers don't haul inventory which won't sell to a coin show.

IMO, specialized items require specialized hunts. >>

We define a "specialized item" as one that requires the right customer who appreciates it. We almost always find such a collector at a coin show. So we always bring specialized and/or unusual items to shows. So if we have a specialized item, it will be at virtually every show at which we have a table.

mrpotatoheadd · August 14, 2009 1:54AM

<< From what I gather, the table rental fees, fast food, motel and airfare costs are eating most dealers up alive. The web is pretty well free. >>

Pretty well free for who? Buyers, maybe. Sellers, not so much. Website hosting isn't free. eBay isn't free. Websites don't keep themselves updated, coins don't photograph themselves and email doesn't reply with answers to inquiries all on its own. That stuff takes time- more of it than you might think. And unless you don't value your time, that's not free, either.

Just something to consider...

ambro51 · August 14, 2009 2:28AM

Yes, Buyers for the most part. Without buyers, there would be no sellers. If the sellers can find more buyers on the internet...thats where they will end up.

Being a 'road warrior' is tough. I done it for a decade, albeit in a much different situation. The long drives, arrogant organizers (always wanting a little more money each year), time away from the comforts of home, all this adds up and wears you away little by little. What starts out as FUN ends up as WORK.

Not making expenses....a very real and very depressing situation that anyone who sells on the road deals with. Sometimes it takes a very very small straw to break a camels back, and once you get OUT of the loop, its very difficult to mentally get back in.

I sense that happening in some ways reading these coin show reports here on this forum. The saturday afternoon/sunday "get out of Dodge" is a very contagious happening. Almost a retreat to the primal human herd mentality...when one dealer sees the guy two tables down having a bad day...and packing up and fleeing in a huff.....it tends to spread that feeling. Who says that guy will come back next year, to set up again? Maybe he'll just go back home, sit down at the computer and decide to be an internet based dealer. Its happening.........its happening.

Even a super well respected dealer like Julian Leidman, a fixture if you will....has a remarkable web presence.
(and Thank You again Julian for that stunning 1849 no L gold dollar, coin #1 on the sigline....bought of the web)

291fifth · August 14, 2009 2:30AM

<< No.

If you are only shopping for one thing and its a "very specialized" item at that, why would you expect to find it at coin shows? Most dealers don't haul inventory which won't sell to a coin show.

IMO, specialized items require specialized hunts.

As for getting the brush off? Try collecting IKE Dollars............

>>

I used to be able to find this type of item at shows. Today, however, since it isn't an expensive or popular item, dealers seem to ignore it.

Bear · August 14, 2009 2:38AM

Eventually, only the most efficient, well run shows

will survive. This will be determined on location,

facility set up and timing of shows. At present, there

are just too many Nationsl Shows. As the cost of

business rises, more and more delers will become

selective as to the shows they will attend. Shows are

still very important for dealers to balance their inventory,

purchase collections and meet their clients in person. Nothing

will eliminate the shows completely for those reasons. If I

were a dealer, the effort required to attend back to back shows,

the attendance at auctions and the stress of travel and coordination

would be too great . To attend all of the big regional and National Shows

would just tax what is left of my sanity and metabolism.

Longacre · August 14, 2009 2:49AM

I tend to go to shows for the social aspect, in addition to the coins. By the time I pay homage to all of the prominent dealers, and meet up with forum members, it does not leave a lot of time to really hunker down and sit at a table looking through 2x2s or slabs for hours upon hours. I tend to go to the Baltimore show for a single day, so perhaps if I stayed longer, I would have a full day to socialize less, and just focus on the product.

mrpotatoheadd · August 14, 2009 2:57AM

<< Yes, Buyers for the most part. >>

Ok- I get it. I was confused- the sentence before referred to dealers, so I thought "The web is pretty well free." was directed towards them, too. Sorry about that.

<< I sense that happening in some ways reading these coin show reports here on this forum. The saturday afternoon/sunday "get out of Dodge" is a very contagious happening. >>

That's not really a new development, though- it's pretty much been like that for as long as I've attended shows. The first coin show I ever went to was about 45 years ago in Long Beach. My dad promised to drive me there, and we went on Sunday afternoon because he worked late on Saturdays. Most of the dealers were gone. I learned later from the dealer at the local coin shop that this was to be expected, and I should try not to wait until the last half of the last day of the show to go if I wanted to see more than just empty tables.

BillyKingsley · August 14, 2009 3:03AM

I sure as heck hope not. My coin show career is just getting ready to begin.

I would think, at shows, it would be easier for somebody who collects a wide range of items, versus somebody who collects one thing. The more different items you are looking for, the higher the odds will be that you will find something.

DennisH · August 14, 2009 3:46AM

No more than horses and buggies are.

The time in the spotlight for really big national shows as the end-all and be-all way of selling coins may be dimming, but I think smaller shows will always be around. Personally, I think there could even be more local and regional shows pop up, so the issues of travel and time away from home aren't the monster pain in the butt they are now for the national events. Frankly, I can't for the life of me understand why so many dealers keep doing them now as it is, instead of investing in a knockout website and killer photography so they can sell from their patio deck at home, and occasionally going to shows to walk the floor as a buyer only.

I strongly sense that dealers are at or past a breaking point in terms of the cost necessary to attend big shows. In her ANA market rant, Laura of Legend said their cost of travel, rooms, meals, stupid table fees, etc. ran into five figures. Think about that for a moment. Legend has a lot of expensive coins in inventory, but it doesn't mean they broke even as soon as they sold a $10,000 one. It means they had to sell however many coins it took to make $10,000 profit. What is it like for dealers who don't have expensive inventories and the sale of a single coin can't come close to making enough profit to cover all expenses?

Therein lies the main reason why I think big national shows will continue to wither on the vine like grapes turning into raisins: The high cost of attending and setting up will keep gradually limiting dealer participation to high-end folks who can cover expenses by selling just a few coins. Except there aren't all that many of them to begin with. Dealers with more affordable inventories will stay home (or will we see groups of 5 or 6 of them jammed behind one shared table?) and big show bourse sizes will continue shrinking. As they do, so will attendance, since not many people can afford very expensive coins. It looks like an inevitable death spiral to me that's already well underway.

dorkkarl · August 14, 2009 3:46AM

the social aspect of shows is severly under rated. if you really like the smell of your own underwear, then by all means stay @ home & shop til your shorts drop. but as long as you like to slap your buddy on the back & buy him a beer, shows will be around.

& i like beer more then i like underwear.

K S

shorecoll · August 14, 2009 5:26AM

Maybe we're in a cycle, regional shows used to be king, then they withered, maybe it's time for a comeback. I never went to any but I collect auction catalogs from many shows that either don't exist or have been transformed.

FYI, $10,000 in expenses for a week at a convention is not that bad compared to some other industries.

As a collector, if I spent $1,000 going to convention like L.A., that would take a big chunk out of my impulse purchases.

Bochiman · August 14, 2009 5:44AM

For most, no.
For the most specialized amongst us, probably.

ColonialCoinUnion · August 14, 2009 5:45AM

<< Today, however, since it isn't an expensive or popular item, dealers seem to ignore it. >>

I don't find this news to be very surprising.

golfer72 · August 14, 2009 6:18AM

I would say no. Everyone has series that they collect but its nice to look at other coins also. At least for me it is.

telephoto1 · August 14, 2009 6:21AM

<< 

<< From what I gather, the table rental fees, fast food, motel and airfare costs are eating most dealers up alive. The web is pretty well free. >>

Pretty well free for who? Buyers, maybe. Sellers, not so much. Website hosting isn't free. eBay isn't free. Websites don't keep themselves updated, coins don't photograph themselves and email doesn't reply with answers to inquiries all on its own. That stuff takes time- more of it than you might think. And unless you don't value your time, that's not free, either.

Just something to consider... >>

Anyone who thinks the web is free hasn't done any selling there.

Bear · August 14, 2009 6:26AM

Advantages of attending a major show:

1. You get to see 100s of dealers.

2. Get to meet with your favorite dealers.

3. Get to meet with friends and Forum Members.

4. Get to view lots from major auction Houses

5. Get away from the spouse.

6. Get to fondle some really neat coins.

BigMoose · August 14, 2009 7:20AM

I hope that the larger well run national and regional shows will be around for a long time. As RYK pointed out, the social aspect of these shows is very important to many people, myself included. Heck, I feel like I am back in a college fraternity again when attending many of these shows, meeting up with and hanging out with old friends, going out to dinner and just busting b@lls in general. Additionally, the opportunity to look at hundreds of coins within your area of specialty occurs nowhere else. I believe that if you pay attention, you can learn more in two days looking at hundreds of auction lots and items in dealer's inventory than you can in two years buying on the web. Nothing can take the place of seeing the coins in hand.

RYK · August 14, 2009 7:24AM

<< the social aspect of shows is severly under rated. if you really like the smell of your own underwear, then by all means stay @ home & shop til your shorts drop. but as long as you like to slap your buddy on the back & buy him a beer, shows will be around.

& i like beer more then i like underwear.

K S >>

i like beer more then i like underwear

Not exactly Benjamin Franklin*, but I could not agree more.

* "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."

jhdfla · August 14, 2009 7:42AM

No. Certainly not the ones on the east coast.

Are coin shows finished?

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