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Franklin halves - reverse types 1 & 2
Blackhawk
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I recently noticed that the Numismatic news price guide lists both reverse type 1 & 2 for coins from 1958 to 1963 struck at the Philadelphia mint. There are only prices for the 1958 and 1959 type 2 reverse coins up to XF...the others have no values listed. Are there any records of actual sales of these coins in various grades? Are any of these rare, or are the two types pretty evenly distributed in the mintage?
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The 1971 (if I got that right from memory) edition of Spadone says 1959 does not exist in variety 1. Things must have been in their infancy then.
The fact that the die was made this way may have been an accident. The use of it, however, was a very deliberate action on the part of the mint. I say this because the earliest die state known of this coin shows heavy buffing to remove traces of doubling. The die was later removed from service and rebuffed to remove more evidence of doubling. It was then put back into service.
A similiar case, even including being buffed a second time, applies to a 1952 PROOF quarter die.
The name is LEE!
The '59 type 1 is estimated by Breen at 20% also I think. I believe the '59 type 1 and 2s had roughly the same mintage though as neither is scarce. In reference to the '59 DDR (type 2 over type 1) I'm going to make a guess that they represent 10% of the mintage.
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Total mintage was 6,200,000, so one die can have quite an effect. However Bill Edwards estimated the doubled die production as 1 1/2% or 93,000.
I think Walter Breen's estimates were influenced by Bill, although they do not match in all cases.
Bill estimates 1958 var II as 20% and 1959 var II as 35%. I know Bill put a lot of effort into this. Perhaps he was influenced by the the distribution in his local area.
Walter Breen's book says 1959 was 70 % type 2 and 30 % type 1. He must have hit a hoard that came from mint sets.
Looking at TT offers, 1958 v II seems much, much less than 20%.
TT 1959 doubled die seems more than 1 1/2%.
Edited after further reflection. Sorry, I changed quite a bit.
And just to be clear, were talking about the Proof Reverse on the Business Strike coin right?
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Right, or in my case, what I have been referring to as variety or type II.
<< <i>10% of the mintage from one die ? >>
This DDR is known with two different obv. dies so the mint really got their use out of it. I think CONECA has five stages listed. 10% may be a little high but it's probably at least 5%.
Edit: I had to correct this part, I had it backwards. The first obv. die seems to be scarce. All the examples of this DDR I've seen have been from the second obv. die.
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Edit: The second obv. die used, listed as DMR-006, is scarcer than DMR-005. I've never been able to find one. Every DDR I've seen has been from the first obv. die. >>
Does this change in the obverse die occur at the same time as the second buffing of the reverse?
<< <i><<This DDR is known with two different obv. dies so the mint really got their use out of it. I think CONECA has five stages listed. 10% may be a little high but it's probably at least 5%.
Edit: The second obv. die used, listed as DMR-006, is scarcer than DMR-005. I've never been able to find one. Every DDR I've seen has been from the first obv. die. >>
Does this change in the obverse die occur at the same time as the second buffing of the reverse? >>
That's something I'm not sure about.
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I've got a couple different stages of the die crack in the bell lines. It's kind of interesting.
Stage A:
EDS (unconfirmed)
Stage B:
Die scratch East-West under last S of STATES – EMDS
Die scratch from lower T to E of STATES
Die scratch SW from apex of A in DOLLAR
Die scratch joining lower legs of R of DOLLAR
Die crack along bust line – LMDS
Stage C:
New die scratch pattern through DOLLAR – MDS
Light die crack through lower Left bell lines
Light die crack on eagle's breast
Obverse die changed – EDS
Stage
Die scratches though DOLLAR worn away – LMDS
Die crack extends through lower Right bell lines
Die break on eagle's breast
Obverse is MDS
Stage E:
Die crack under Right bell – LDS
Die crack extends into field above R of DOLLAR
Die crack from eagle East to rim
Die crack along bust line – LDS
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Die scratch East-West under last S of STATES – EMDS
Die scratch from lower T to E of STATES>> Selected items only - read on
I really regret not yet sending you the report I promised you.
The obverse die change does seeem to line up with the second buffing.
1) Stage C is the only stage that mentions new scratches. Subsequent stages have scratches disappearing.
2) Bill said some scratches disappeared, some new were added and some remained the same in the second buffing. What I quoted under stage B above are the the lines that remained.
Dealers love to promote esoteric lil' die variations so they can create new rarities that aren't worth squat
I have a bit of background info on die usage - Philly Joe was kind enough to copy the actual mint records and send a copy to me. Anyway, here is some info that may shed light on how many of one type might be out there.
For 1958:
For 50c business strikes - obverse dies used = 20 (or avg. 203,400 pcs per die) - reverse dies used = 22 (or avg. 184,909 pcs per die)
For 50c proof strikes - obverse dies used = 213 (or avg. 4,818 pcs per die) - reverse dies used = 184 (or avg. 5,577 pcs per die)
For 1959:
For 50c business strikes - obverse dies used = 35 (or avg. 179,837 pcs per die) - reverse dies used = 23 (or avg. 273,665 pcs per die)
For 50c proof strikes - obverse dies used =199 (or avg. 6,566 pcs per die) - reverse dies used = 183 (or avg. 7,140 pcs per die)
Looking at reverse die usage on the business strikes, it is plausible that one die could represent about 5% of the total pieces struck - two dies would strike about 10%.
Hope this DATA was helpful.
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Dealers love to promote esoteric lil' die variations so they can create new rarities that aren't worth squat>>
I think Pawpaul's dismissal is giving these varietes even more credit than they have acheived (but not what they deserve).
I am not aware of any dealers ever promoting them (Feel free to correct me if I am wrong on this. I am interested in the whole history of these).
They are not rarieties. It looks like at this point that even the single doubled die might be 4 1/2% of the total mintage for that date/mint.
The mint introduced a special proof artwork in 1956 and used it until the end of the series in 1963. That is a period of 18 years. I think that is quite noteworthy as is the fact it ended up on a minority (even if large) of circulation strikes for two years. This has happened in other series such the quarter types B (1937-1972) and M (1968-1970) and the 1972 type 2 Ike dollar as well as the recent (1994-2008) cents.
Some of us find it a fascinating area to explore.
edited to correct minor spelling error
<< <i>I am a Franklin specialist and could give two hoots about the reverses - that's my two cents on the subject .
Dealers love to promote esoteric lil' die variations so they can create new rarities that aren't worth squat >>
I agree that there shouldn't be a premium for the type 1 and 2 bus. strikes. The DDR does carry a premium though.
I paid a small premium for a '58 T2 in MS65 with semi-PL surfaces but normally it wouldn't carry much of any premium.
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