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How should I handle this?
mumu
Posts: 1,840
Paypal dispute. Insured for 900$. What kind of headaches can I expect from the USPS?
"Box arrived empty. The insured priority mail box was stamped in red ink by the Post Office that the box arrived without its contents. I refused to sign for an empty box."
"Box arrived empty. The insured priority mail box was stamped in red ink by the Post Office that the box arrived without its contents. I refused to sign for an empty box."
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<< <i>Probably a few. If you take the stamped box after it was returned and your receipt for the $900 insurance to the postmaster then it sounds pretty clearcut. Good luck. >>
Are you saying I will be receiving the empty box? Is this now my burden or the buyer? Paypal immediately removed funds from my account. Just seems that the buyer is the buying the coin and the insurance he is also buying the risk and the headache and I shouldnt have my money frozen right?
<< <i>Are you saying I will be receiving the empty box? >>
If the buyer refused it, the post office should be returning it to you.
<< <i>Is this now my burden or the buyer? Paypal immediately removed funds from my account. >>
Accepting PayPal means it's always your burden if you're the seller- sorry.
<< <i>Just seems that the buyer is the buying the coin and the insurance he is also buying the risk and the headache and I shouldnt have my money frozen right? >>
Regardless of where one stands on the issue, it doesn't work that way.
<< <i>
<< <i>Probably a few. If you take the stamped box after it was returned and your receipt for the $900 insurance to the postmaster then it sounds pretty clearcut. Good luck. >>
Are you saying I will be receiving the empty box? Is this now my burden or the buyer? Paypal immediately removed funds from my account. Just seems that the buyer is the buying the coin and the insurance he is also buying the risk and the headache and I shouldnt have my money frozen right? >>
Of course it is your burden, the insurance was to protect you. At $900 insurance I am surprised you did not ship the package via Registered Mail since it might have been less expensive that way and would have been much more secure. You may or may not receive the full $900 you requested since you will have to prove value and then the postal service will determine what you should receive.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>I was getting a funny vibe when I asked the lady to insure it for 900$. She just kind of changed her tone and attention in a wau I cant describe. Just one of those hunches that come over you. I bet she stole it. >>
No shipping method is secure when the theif works for the USPS.I'm not saying that's what happened,but sounds like the OP suspects it.
I will say this,the only time I ever had a package lost I had the same suspicions.
<< <i>You may or may not receive the full $900 you requested since you will have to prove value and then the postal service will determine what you should receive. >>
Printouts showing A) the ended auction listing page,
<< <i>Agree that it is your burden. Paypal always takes the buyer's side and insurance always protects the seller. If what the buyer said is true about the box and they refused it, it should go back to the return address, hence you. You must prove the $900 value as Tom said. >>
hopefully, they'll take the ebay sale printout as proof.
as far as a change in tone, I've had that happen... but what kind of change in tone? Mine haven't disappeared when the eyebrows went up.
A few years back it did take some time to get the $ back from an ~$100 area "lost" electronics item claim. Not an unreasonable amt. of time, but some time.
<< <i>Just seems that the buyer is the buying the coin and the insurance he is also buying the risk and the headache and I shouldnt have my money frozen right? >>
The insurance is for the seller.
<< <i>
<< <i>I was getting a funny vibe when I asked the lady to insure it for 900$. She just kind of changed her tone and attention in a wau I cant describe. Just one of those hunches that come over you. I bet she stole it. >>
No shipping method is secure when the theif works for the USPS.I'm not saying that's what happened,but sounds like the OP suspects it.
I will say this,the only time I ever had a package lost I had the same suspicions. >>
Well at the very least it was stolen in the care of the USPS thats obvious. Funny, I shipped 3 other coins I sold and insured for the same amount of money at the same post office with 2 other workers there, and not once did i have any suspicions. But with this lady I did, and sure enough...
<< <i>
<< <i>Agree that it is your burden. Paypal always takes the buyer's side and insurance always protects the seller. If what the buyer said is true about the box and they refused it, it should go back to the return address, hence you. You must prove the $900 value as Tom said. >>
hopefully, they'll take the ebay sale printout as proof.
as far as a change in tone, I've had that happen... but what kind of change in tone? Mine haven't disappeared when the eyebrows went up.
A few years back it did take some time to get the $ back from an ~$100 area "lost" electronics item claim. Not an unreasonable amt. of time, but some time. >>
It was just one of those subtle differences in the way she carried herself. Too subtle to really put into words that describe it accurately. Just kind of what you would expect from someone who suddenly started having bad thoughts and became a little spacey/flustered in thought as you tell them you are handing over something to them worth 900$
edited to add... police report? I'd be surprised if you could find an officer interested enough to get one filed.
This reminds me:
When shipping with insurance be sure the PO gives you the stamped reciept. I've had them hand me the thing unstamped, without their stamp it's no good.
When getting a pkg that requires you to sign be sure it's not empty before signing. Often the delivery person holds the pkg and hands you the thing to sign. I always put my hand out for the pkg. By refusing it without signing if it's empty removes any question that it was already empty when delivered.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
I like the small prioity boxe.... taped all the way around both ways...
The item was Super well packed and I told them this. They told me "if it was packed properly it wouldn't have been damaged now would it?"
<< <i>What kind of package did you use? Bubble Mailer or USPS Priority Box or other?
I like the small prioity boxe.... taped all the way around both ways... >>
Thats what i used. And the broad taped it all the way around in front of me.
<< <i>Depends on how much time you have to devote to the quest, I suppose. If it was my "lost" item, I'd be satisfied just being compensated for the loss- I'd leave it to OJ to do the searching for the real thief.
edited to add... police report? I'd be surprised if you could find an officer interested enough to get one filed. >>
The postal Inspectors will care:
Title 18, Part 1, chapter 38, section 1708 (full text at Cornell):
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1708.html reads, in part:
Whoever steals, takes ... from or out of any mail, ... letter box,
mail receptacle, or any mail route ... any letter, postal card,
package, bag, or mail, ... Shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than five years, or both
contact the postal inspectors, independently of whatever the local PO do just to make sure it gets done.
I'd also be posting the slab # and trying to get the slab entered into the national database.
<< <i>The postal Inspectors will care... >>
They just might. The police- not so much.
<< <i>What type of things prove value in the expereinces of others in the coin world? Im sure this has happened before to someone. Printing out the ebay auction? If someone was willing to pay 900$ for it, that is the definition of value right? This sounds like it is going to end up with me very very angry. >>
Proof of Value is a signed letter from a dealer who can vouch for whatever was lost has value. The insurance form should give more information on this matter.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>Depends on how much time you have to devote to the quest, I suppose. If it was my "lost" item, I'd be satisfied just being compensated for the loss- I'd leave it to OJ to do the searching for the real thief.
edited to add... police report? I'd be surprised if you could find an officer interested enough to get one filed. >>
The postal Inspectors will care:
Title 18, Part 1, chapter 38, section 1708 (full text at Cornell):
[l=http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1708.html]http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1708.html/l] reads, in part:
Whoever steals, takes ... from or out of any mail, ... letter box,
mail receptacle, or any mail route ... any letter, postal card,
package, bag, or mail, ... Shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than five years, or both
contact the postal inspectors, independently of whatever the local PO do just to make sure it gets done.
I'd also be posting the slab # and trying to get the slab entered into the national database. >>
How do you go about doing that? Slab number is:
6533.64/12951221
<< <i>Proof of Value is a signed letter from a dealer who can vouch for whatever was lost has value. >>
If I just sold the coin and could provide evidence showing what I was paid for it, that's enough proof of value to meet USPS regulations.
<< <i>
<< <i>
contact the postal inspectors, independently of whatever the local PO do just to make sure it gets done.
I'd also be posting the slab # and trying to get the slab entered into the national database. >>
How do you go about doing that? Slab number is:
6533.64/12951221 >>
I'll have to search threads tomorrow for the official name of it. hopefully the postal inspectors will be able to handle it.
post some close ups if you have any.
<< <i>
<< <i>Proof of Value is a signed letter from a dealer who can vouch for whatever was lost has value. >>
If I just sold the coin and could provide evidence showing what I was paid for it, that's enough proof of value to meet USPS regulations. >>
I had to do it once and the USPS required a letter from a dealer who sold that type of coin that was lost. Imagine finding a dealer who could do that with Jefferson nickels a few years back.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>NCIC is what you want to enter it into >>
I guess you have to call them? Their website doesnt have much functionality.
<< <i>Printouts showing A) the ended auction listing page,
Yup, that's sufficient to determine value as far as USPS is concerned.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
I know this is weighing heavily on you right now but try to get some rest.
When you get up tomorrow (later today) get all your documentation together
and do what you know you need to do.
Trust the system and if you've done everything by the book, you'll be OK.
I feel certain that you now see that it is the seller who benefits from USPS Insurance -
NOT the buyer! If you're the seller and shipped this uninsured ..... I'm sure you get the point!
Good Luck.
<< <i>I feel certain that you now see that it is the seller who benefits from USPS Insurance - NOT the buyer! If you're the seller and shipped this uninsured ..... I'm sure you get the point! >>
Good point! If the buyer didn't buy insurance the buyer would still get the refund from paypal. The seller would get nothing. As a seller never make insurance on anything of high value optional.
USPS may refund you fast because you have that box stamped empty on delivery. They don't need to wait a month to see if it gets delivered or investigate if the buyer got it or not.
Good luck.
let's just put it this way -
There is NO WAY I would consider shipping any
item of considerable value without insuring it!
Incidents such as this is a good reason why!
CYB - Cover your Backside!
<< <i>
<< <i>I feel certain that you now see that it is the seller who benefits from USPS Insurance - NOT the buyer! If you're the seller and shipped this uninsured ..... I'm sure you get the point! >>
Good point! If the buyer didn't buy insurance the buyer would still get the refund from paypal. The seller would get nothing. As a seller never make insurance on anything of high value optional.
USPS may refund you fast because you have that box stamped empty on delivery. They don't need to wait a month to see if it gets delivered or investigate if the buyer got it or not.
Good luck.
Thats assuming the box gets back to me, if in fact they need it. Youd think that in the AGE OF COMPUTERS, they could just enter this into a system and get it done as opposed to wasting my time and theirs. But im sure the red tape will be harder to cut thru than the tape on the package was to whoever stole it. I am so pissed that they can expect calls every day until I get the money back and the postal inspector will hear from me often to make sure he tries to find the culprit. Not so much because the 900$ is godly money, but because chances are this isnt the first or last time this person has dipped into the merchandise. And if a family heirloom or something irrplaceable was ever stolen, they should be potatoed to death.
Thanks again to everyone who responded.
A fate worse than that of being stoned to death.
Especially if the gravy is lumpy.
Ray
<< <i>OK the good news is that the 2 people I have spoken to at the local post office have thus far been very friendly and aplogetic and have assured me not to worry. The insurance specialist at the branch requested only the final ebay printout showing that it sold and was paid for, so it sounds like she has some experience with the situation. Of course until the money is paid out, the issue is no better than before, but at least it appears I wont have to speak to 30 people. >>
This is one reason why I prefer signature confirmation. Never had one go awry. But another reason I don't like USPS insurance is that it is overpriced--partly because of all the fraudulent claims (not by the shipper so much as fraud by the buyer forcing the shipper to claim insurance). So with the high rates they charge, they probably pay (slowly) without much problem. But I've never made an insurance claim on a shipped coin. --Jerry
<< <i>cant help but feel that Ebay/Paypal make it easier to be a scammer than to be an honest merchant. I have heard these thoughts echoed before me, but you can add me to the list. I know this time it wasnt ebays fault, but the way they handle situations, freezin f money et cetera, really blows for everyone. I now have -750$ in my paypal account which means all the items I have for sale will be sold just to pay up that balance. And Im sure some kind of fee will come in and put some icing on my sh.itcake. >>
Paypal knows how long it takes to make a USPS insurance claim. Are they ok with that? Are they charging you interest? --Jerry
<< <i>
<< <i>cant help but feel that Ebay/Paypal make it easier to be a scammer than to be an honest merchant. I have heard these thoughts echoed before me, but you can add me to the list. I know this time it wasnt ebays fault, but the way they handle situations, freezin f money et cetera, really blows for everyone. I now have -750$ in my paypal account which means all the items I have for sale will be sold just to pay up that balance. And Im sure some kind of fee will come in and put some icing on my sh.itcake. >>
Paypal knows how long it takes to make a USPS insurance claim. Are they ok with that? Are they charging you interest? --Jerry >>
Not sure yet. Nothing has hit, but a pending transaction will probably be bouncing now because of this so I expect it. The stuff I have now, when paid, Should cover the current deficit, but that wont be until next week.
<< <i>I had to do it once and the USPS required a letter from a dealer who sold that type of coin that was lost. Imagine finding a dealer who could do that with Jefferson nickels a few years back. >>
If you had just sold the coin and could provide a copy of your invoice to the buyer and a copy/printout documenting his payment, that's all you need according to postal regulations. If somebody told you differently, they were mistaken. Yes, it's true- not everybody working for the post office has all the rules memorized.
If you ever have a question about post office rules, it never hurts to check the Domestic Mail Manual and read the actual policies for yourself- you might be surprised how much of what some of the postal clerks tell you is not really so.
<< <i>
<< <i>I had to do it once and the USPS required a letter from a dealer who sold that type of coin that was lost. Imagine finding a dealer who could do that with Jefferson nickels a few years back. >>
If you had just sold the coin and could provide a copy of your invoice to the buyer and a copy/printout documenting his payment, that's all you need according to postal regulations. If somebody told you differently, they were mistaken. Yes, it's true- not everybody working for the post office has all the rules memorized.
If you ever have a question about post office rules, it never hurts to check the Domestic Mail Manual and read the actual policies for yourself- you might be surprised how much of what some of the postal clerks tell you is not really so. >>
I can back this up. The first guy I talked to, while very very friendly, told me id have to get a letter from a dealer or bring in a current price guide. The insurance specialist however said just the ebay proof of sale was enough.
never deal with the lackey window jockeys, just deal with the person filling out the form &/or the post master.
anyway, isn't the pcgs price guide figure higher than the sale price?