While I have played the sub game plenty of times and collect a few graded sets, and do enjoy the beauty of a slabbed set. I tend to side with Brett and his Raw assessment. Ive come to realize that the TPG game is very corrupt and driven more by greed and money than the cards themselves, not for all, but a high % are "What's it worth" collectors first and foremost and the TPGers take advantage of that fact. Hench the "resub business". I hope Felicia gets the grades she deserves. With a little patcience and bit more resub coin in the corperate pocket to keep the shareholders happy, Im sure She will. I collect the CARDS of childhood heroes and the memories they represent, not price guides and labels. While it is true we all like to think our precious collections hold some monatary value. I never look at cards as an "Investment". If I never get one red dime back it was still money well spent for the pure enjoyment and collecting aspect of the hobby that Ive always held so dear since I was a kid. While I do enjoy certain aspects of making a few graded sets very much, it will never outweight the majority of my collection being raw. If for no other reason than cost, storage and the inconvience of viewing my collection in all those bulky slabs. Im not trying to offend or defend anybody. We all have our reasons for being in this hobby and don't have to justify them to anybody.
Here's some of the reasons Ive been a lifelong collector since 1970.
<< <i>We all feel your pain. EOT needs to be changed, because the word "evidence" is in there and they never provide any evidence. I am a true believer that if the card looks too good to be true especially with vintage or high dollar cards (jordan fleer?), and the grader is unsure, they'll stick the EOT just to save face and their butts.
For someone like Felicia who spends thousands of dollars on older cases for the sole purpose of getting pack fresh cards for submission and then getting robbed, is an absolute joke. Now she has to play the re-sub game and give them more money and hopefully the cards land in the proper hands of someone who can actually grade and knows what they're doing. And yes, "I'm sorry this happened to you." Okay, I'm done. >>
How many of the 168 came back Evid of Trim? It is certainly frustrating to pull cards from a sealed box or case and have them come back Evid of Trim. Is it true that one can reach out to Joe O. if that is the case? I've had cards come back Evid of Trim that were pulled from sealed cases, too, but figured that was just part of the subjective nature of card grading. Good luck..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
1976 Topps are modern and machine cut... If the story of the unopened case is true..... No excuses for PSA No need to defend PSA on this one. IMO They like to double up their subs sometimes with a first round reject.... and its basically stealing cash from collectors.
A person trims a card for only 2 reasons.... to center the picture better or to get the corners sharp.... and it should be very obvious (on machine cut cards) to PSA everytime, especially with the equipment they have.
No one is trimming 1/64th or 12/128th on an inch off an edge, it doesnt happen, they take a bit more than that. If they (PSA) did their job right and even did the easiest thing of all.... matching up cards front to back they should easily see slight size differences.
Try trimming 1/32th of an inch off a playing card put it back in the deck and see how easy it is to find. Very
<< <i>1976 Topps are modern and machine cut... If the story of the unopened case is true..... No excuses for PSA No need to defend PSA on this one. IMO They like to double up their subs sometimes with a first round reject.... and its basically stealing cash from collectors.
A person trims a card for only 2 reasons.... to center the picture better or to get the corners sharp.... and it should be very obvious (on machine cut cards) to PSA everytime, especially with the equipment they have.
No one is trimming 1/64th or 12/128th on an inch off an edge, it doesnt happen, they take a bit more than that. If they (PSA) did their job right and even did the easiest thing of all.... matching up cards front to back they should easily see slight size differences.
Try trimming 1/32th of an inch off a playing card put it back in the deck and see how easy it is to find. Very >>
No one is trimming 1/64th or 12/128th on an inch off an edge, it doesnt happen, they take a bit more than that.
You're wrong. Micro-trimming happens. Often. I could trim 1/64th off a card right now with the right tools if I wanted to.
If they (PSA) did their job right and even did the easiest thing of all.... matching up cards front to back they should easily see slight size differences.
This would be true if all cards were cut the same. Do me a favor and open a wax box from the early 80s and 70s, stack the cards up against one another and tell me if they are all exactly the same size. The trimmers that know what they're doing will pick cards that are cut slightly big, then trim them to where they are the intended size or maybe a little smaller (but within grading guidelines). It is really, really hard to tell if a pack fresh well-trimmed 70s or 80s card has been doctored, regardless of what PSA will tell you.
Obviously from past posts I can tell you are against card grading as it exists now, which is fine; I am actually in agreement with the ridiculousness of what grading and the registry have become. However, you clearly don't know the modern market and what people are capable of in regards to getting cards into slabs, so maybe it's best not to comment so absolutely on things you don't know much about.
My guess is that they saw the sharp edges/corners on all of these cards and "guessed" they were trimmed.
I think grading companies should at least give a partial refund,(like half) if they claim the card was trimmed or altered. when they keep the money thats ripping the customers off imo.
<< <i>Do me a favor and open a wax box from the early 80s and 70s, stack the cards up against one another and tell me if they are all exactly the same size >>
No need to bust older packs. Buy any random box from Walmart and compare the cards. Same result.
is it possible the vending cases had cards that were different sizes? this would almost fall under the MIN SIZE which could be construed as trimmed....
<< <i>is it possible the vending cases had cards that were different sizes? this would almost fall under the MIN SIZE which could be construed as trimmed.... >>
Minimum size means they were smaller than the standard issue for that set. EOT by definition means the grader sees what he/she believes to be a card that has proof of trimming. Unless there is overwhelming evidence that the card was a actually trimmed, PSA should send the card back with a voucher. No point in pizzing off any submitter, especially a large volume submitter.
"Mark me down as another who had an EOT card, resubmitted, and got a graded card back. And this was a card from a pack I bought off the counter when I was a kid, not one I bought in the secondary market. I KNOW it was not trimmed, I have owned it for @%*& years. "
You don't know what a Topps employee may have done inside the factory.
In all seriousness, I offer up 2 points. First, the card sizes of vintage varied depending on where they were produced. Sizes of cards produced in Duryea differed from those produced in New York. Second, I echo the thoughts of those who lament the sentiment of what TPG has evolved into.........many of you may have this misconception about me that I'm a huge grader of everything I run across. Not so. I enjoy having cards graded for 2 reasons: 1) there are certain cards I want in my collection to be graded, and it's not always stars. Sometimes I see a card I just think would look cool in a holder (the latest being a 73 Topps Leroy Kelly), and I'll send it in. 2) To make some dough and pay for my own collection. The bulk of my collection is, and will always be, raw, for the reasons that others have espoused in this thread.
TIME OUT FOR A SHAMELESS PLUG: I will be going through my raw collection this fall, and all of my high grade RAW dupes will be up for sale. So look for that on a Buy Sell Trade board near you sometime soon.
And let me add one other thing: I saw some raw stuff from collectors at the National that would make your jaw drop. The stuff IS out there, folks.
Ron Burgundy
Buying Vintage, all sports. Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
<< <i>And let me add one other thing: I saw some raw stuff from collectors at the National that would make your jaw drop. The stuff IS out there, folks. >>
I mentioned it in another thread and will say it again. Our local annual show we did 3 weeks ago was loaded with high grade raw cards. None of the dealers seemed to have a clue about grading and some had never even been on eBay.
If there are that many dealers out there that are clueless about grading or just don't like the concept of grading, how many private collectors are out there with the same opinion or lack of knowledge regarding grading?
Comments
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/pdub1819/othersets/6204
My question is, how many of the cards that came back EOT are stars or HOF'ers?
If the cards have not left yet, he will look into the matter.
If the cards have shipped, they can be sent back; JO is
VERY interested in being helpful.
It is gonna happen. They are just hating on your cards
Jus resub and get them where they belong, YES it sucks and IS a sorry way to blow away money
Or if you made the calls, and Joe can help you out, there is posibility to get justice
I am sorry this happened to you
good luck Felicia
I tend to side with Brett and his Raw assessment. Ive come to realize that the TPG game is very corrupt and driven more by
greed and money than the cards themselves, not for all, but a high % are "What's it worth" collectors first and foremost and the
TPGers take advantage of that fact. Hench the "resub business". I hope Felicia gets the grades she deserves.
With a little patcience and bit more resub coin in the corperate pocket to keep the shareholders happy, Im sure She will.
I collect the CARDS of childhood heroes and the memories they represent, not price guides and labels.
While it is true we all like to think our precious collections hold some monatary value. I never look at cards as an "Investment".
If I never get one red dime back it was still money well spent for the pure enjoyment and collecting aspect of the hobby that Ive
always held so dear since I was a kid.
While I do enjoy certain aspects of making a few graded sets very much, it will never outweight the majority of my collection being raw.
If for no other reason than cost, storage and the inconvience of viewing my collection in all those bulky slabs.
Im not trying to offend or defend anybody. We all have our reasons for being in this hobby and don't have to justify them to anybody.
Here's some of the reasons Ive been a lifelong collector since 1970.
<< <i>We all feel your pain.
EOT needs to be changed, because the word "evidence" is in there and they never provide any evidence.
I am a true believer that if the card looks too good to be true especially with vintage or high dollar cards (jordan fleer?),
and the grader is unsure, they'll stick the EOT just to save face and their butts.
For someone like Felicia who spends thousands of dollars on older cases for the sole purpose of getting pack fresh
cards for submission and then getting robbed, is an absolute joke. Now she has to play the re-sub game and give
them more money and hopefully the cards land in the proper hands of someone who can actually grade and knows
what they're doing. And yes, "I'm sorry this happened to you." Okay, I'm done. >>
AGREED 100%.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
If the story of the unopened case is true..... No excuses for PSA
No need to defend PSA on this one. IMO They like to double up their subs sometimes with a first round reject.... and its basically stealing cash from collectors.
A person trims a card for only 2 reasons.... to center the picture better or to get the corners sharp.... and it should be very obvious (on machine cut cards) to PSA everytime, especially with the equipment they have.
No one is trimming 1/64th or 12/128th on an inch off an edge, it doesnt happen, they take a bit more than that. If they (PSA) did their job right and even did the easiest thing of all.... matching up cards front to back they should easily see slight size differences.
Try trimming 1/32th of an inch off a playing card put it back in the deck and see how easy it is to find. Very
<< <i>1976 Topps are modern and machine cut...
If the story of the unopened case is true..... No excuses for PSA
No need to defend PSA on this one. IMO They like to double up their subs sometimes with a first round reject.... and its basically stealing cash from collectors.
A person trims a card for only 2 reasons.... to center the picture better or to get the corners sharp.... and it should be very obvious (on machine cut cards) to PSA everytime, especially with the equipment they have.
No one is trimming 1/64th or 12/128th on an inch off an edge, it doesnt happen, they take a bit more than that. If they (PSA) did their job right and even did the easiest thing of all.... matching up cards front to back they should easily see slight size differences.
Try trimming 1/32th of an inch off a playing card put it back in the deck and see how easy it is to find. Very >>
That is an improper fraction.
3/32
You're wrong. Micro-trimming happens. Often. I could trim 1/64th off a card right now with the right tools if I wanted to.
If they (PSA) did their job right and even did the easiest thing of all.... matching up cards front to back they should easily see slight size differences.
This would be true if all cards were cut the same. Do me a favor and open a wax box from the early 80s and 70s, stack the cards up against one another and tell me if they are all exactly the same size. The trimmers that know what they're doing will pick cards that are cut slightly big, then trim them to where they are the intended size or maybe a little smaller (but within grading guidelines). It is really, really hard to tell if a pack fresh well-trimmed 70s or 80s card has been doctored, regardless of what PSA will tell you.
Obviously from past posts I can tell you are against card grading as it exists now, which is fine; I am actually in agreement with the ridiculousness of what grading and the registry have become. However, you clearly don't know the modern market and what people are capable of in regards to getting cards into slabs, so maybe it's best not to comment so absolutely on things you don't know much about.
My guess is that they saw the sharp edges/corners on all of these cards and "guessed" they were trimmed.
Lee
<< <i>Do me a favor and open a wax box from the early 80s and 70s, stack the cards up against one another and tell me if they are all exactly the same size >>
No need to bust older packs. Buy any random box from Walmart and compare the cards. Same result.
any news yet
sky
<< <i>is it possible the vending cases had cards that were different sizes? this would almost fall under the MIN SIZE which could be construed as trimmed.... >>
Minimum size means they were smaller than the standard issue for that set. EOT by definition means the grader sees what he/she believes to be a card that has proof of trimming. Unless there is overwhelming evidence that the card was a actually trimmed, PSA should send the card back with a voucher. No point in pizzing off any submitter, especially a large volume submitter.
You don't know what a Topps employee may have done inside the factory.
In all seriousness, I offer up 2 points. First, the card sizes of vintage varied depending on where they were produced. Sizes of cards produced in Duryea differed from those produced in New York. Second, I echo the thoughts of those who lament the sentiment of what TPG has evolved into.........many of you may have this misconception about me that I'm a huge grader of everything I run across. Not so. I enjoy having cards graded for 2 reasons: 1) there are certain cards I want in my collection to be graded, and it's not always stars. Sometimes I see a card I just think would look cool in a holder (the latest being a 73 Topps Leroy Kelly), and I'll send it in. 2) To make some dough and pay for my own collection. The bulk of my collection is, and will always be, raw, for the reasons that others have espoused in this thread.
TIME OUT FOR A SHAMELESS PLUG: I will be going through my raw collection this fall, and all of my high grade RAW dupes will be up for sale. So look for that on a Buy Sell Trade board near you sometime soon.
And let me add one other thing: I saw some raw stuff from collectors at the National that would make your jaw drop. The stuff IS out there, folks.
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
<< <i>And let me add one other thing: I saw some raw stuff from collectors at the National that would make your jaw drop. The stuff IS out there, folks. >>
I mentioned it in another thread and will say it again. Our local annual show we did 3 weeks ago was loaded with high grade raw cards. None of the dealers seemed to have a clue about grading and some had never even been on eBay.
If there are that many dealers out there that are clueless about grading or just don't like the concept of grading, how many private collectors are out there with the same opinion or lack of knowledge regarding grading?