What do you think about an auction like this?

relicsncoins · July 23, 2009 3:09AM

The title makes it sound like the coin is genuine and a gem (ms65) to boot. Of course after reading through all of the fluff, the fine print kind of explains what genuine means at the bottom of the page. I personally think sellers like this are preying a bit on an ill informed buyer especially since the genuine thing from PCGS is relatively new. Why can't people have a bit more integrety and just flat out state that PCGS bagged this coin for whatever the problem is.

Underhanded?

commoncents05 · July 23, 2009 3:11AM

It sounds fine to me. No numerical grade stated, and PCGS label shows clearly.

-Paul

doh · July 23, 2009 3:14AM

<< It sounds fine to me. No numerical grade stated, and PCGS label shows clearly. >>

It's just a seller's spin and this guy's spin isn't nearly as bad as some. Like the OP said, the seller actually mentions the PCGS genuine program in the listing.

pheh · July 23, 2009 3:19AM

I have no problem with it.

I like sellers to actually define the code on the coin they are auctioning, but I certainly don't see it as underhanded if they don't. Particularly when we are talking about 91'd coin.

relicsncoins · July 23, 2009 3:26AM

Let's say you went down to your local Ford dealership, and they had a 2005 (insert model) here with 58K mile on it. On the sticker was some long serial number followed by a two digit code. At the bottom of the sticker was some fine print explaining the concept of the 2 digit code, but not telling you what this particular two digit code meant.

The dealer proceeds to tell you that this car is a "genuine" Ford product and is in just gem condition. You decide to go home and think about it, and while at home happen to be doing some research and come across a list of these two digit codes and find out that the particular two digit code on this vehicle means that the transmission has a very good chance of failing by 60K miles.

Would you be happy that the dealer didn't fully explain this two digit code?

Why do we hold sellers of coins to a lower standard than we would with any other product?

JJ

mrpotatoheadd · July 23, 2009 3:35AM

<< Why can't people have a bit more integrety and just flat out state that PCGS bagged this coin for whatever the problem is. >>

Bagged? Looks like the coin is slabbed to me. Besides, can you honestly say that if this coin was cracked out and resubmitted, it wouldn't get certified with a grade on another try?

<< I personally think sellers like this are preying a bit on an ill informed buyer... >>

Why can't people take a bit more responsibility for figuring out just what it is they're bidding on before they make their bid?

relicsncoins · July 23, 2009 4:16AM

<< 

<< Why can't people have a bit more integrety and just flat out state that PCGS bagged this coin for whatever the problem is. >>

Bagged? Looks like the coin is slabbed to me. Besides, can you honestly say that if this coin was cracked out and resubmitted, it wouldn't get certified with a grade on another try?

<< I personally think sellers like this are preying a bit on an ill informed buyer... >>

Why can't people take a bit more responsibility for figuring out just what it is they're bidding on before they make their bid? >>

True, and there is no guarentee that the transmission will fail either, and likewise, people should be responsible for finding out that the car they are about to purchase has been totaled or that the house they are about to buy has a known termite problem and the foundation has been deemed structually unsound. The seller shouldn't have to disclose any of it.

Its easy to say these things when you work for Ford, ie you belong to the PCGS message boards, and know exactly what genuine means and where to find the two digit codes if you don't have them memorized.

It's no big deal, I guess I always try to provide as much information as I can when selling and let the chips fall where they may, instead of providing half of the information and letting the potential buyer try to figure out the other half. It usually results in less problems down the road.

pheh · July 23, 2009 4:20AM

Lets dissect your analogy...

<< Let's say you went down to your local Ford dealership >>

This should be used car dealership. Ford is going to sell Fords with some used-non-Fords. If you are going to make the analogy you need to be picking on a coin dealer that only sells Isabellas or at least only sells classic commemoratives.

<< On the sticker was some long serial number followed by a two digit code. At the bottom of the sticker was some fine print explaining the concept of the 2 digit code, but not telling you what this particular two digit code meant. >>

I have to ask this question, I am not making fun... Have you ever purchased a used car?

<< The dealer proceeds to tell you that this car is a "genuine" Ford product and is in just gem condition. >>

Uhuh... I'd have no reason to suspect it was not a genuine Ford product and it would never even cross my mind to ask. I would expect every car dealer to tell me a car was in gem condition.

<< You decide to go home and think about it, and while at home happen to be doing some research and come across a list of these two digit codes and find out that the particular two digit code on this vehicle means that the transmission has a very good chance of failing by 60K miles. >>

So you are equating "Questionable Color" of a coin to "Very Good Chance Transmission Will Fall Our by 60K miles" on a 58K mile car. Really? If the code meant... "May be a Maco Paint Job" - I could see the comparison. And in that case I could decide for myself if I liked the paint job.

<< Would you be happy that the dealer didn't fully explain this two digit code? >>

Umm, no I wouldn't be happy if a dealer didn't tell me they knew there was a good chance that the transmission would fall out in 2K miles. Then again, I'd never expect to see it on a sticker in the first place - nor would I expect them to sell me a car which would have this problem. That is what Lemon Laws are for.

<< Why do we hold sellers of coins to a lower standard than we would with any other product? >>

I don't. PCGS rendered their opinion of the coin. The dealer, in this case, chose to render his opinion of the coin with one word... GEM. And that is all there is to it.

The real question might be... "Why do you hold PCGS to such a high degree of infallibility, and equate coin dealers to back alley thugs?"

BECOKA · July 23, 2009 4:22AM

To me the genuine issue with this coin is all opinion and no fact. 91 stands for artificial color. A quick dip and it might grade 65+ who knows.

tjc2120 · July 23, 2009 4:28AM

Relics, for the record I understand your concern about the auction and I understand your analogy perfectly. One forum member refers to this practice as the seller's "spin". I, like you, view it as misleading.

I find it annoying and would not do it myself.

Edited to add edited for typo.

relicsncoins · July 23, 2009 4:40AM

<< Lets dissect your analogy...

<< Let's say you went down to your local Ford dealership >>

This should be used car dealership. Ford is going to sell Fords with some used-non-Fords. If you are going to make the analogy you need to be picking on a coin dealer that only sells Isabellas or at least only sells classic commemoratives.

<< On the sticker was some long serial number followed by a two digit code. At the bottom of the sticker was some fine print explaining the concept of the 2 digit code, but not telling you what this particular two digit code meant. >>

I have to ask this question, I am not making fun... Have you ever purchased a used car?

<< The dealer proceeds to tell you that this car is a "genuine" Ford product and is in just gem condition. >>

Uhuh... I'd have no reason to suspect it was not a genuine Ford product and it would never even cross my mind to ask. I would expect every car dealer to tell me a car was in gem condition.

<< You decide to go home and think about it, and while at home happen to be doing some research and come across a list of these two digit codes and find out that the particular two digit code on this vehicle means that the transmission has a very good chance of failing by 60K miles. >>

So you are equating "Questionable Color" of a coin to "Very Good Chance Transmission Will Fall Our by 60K miles" on a 58K mile car. Really? If the code meant... "May be a Maco Paint Job" - I could see the comparison. And in that case I could decide for myself if I liked the paint job.

<< Would you be happy that the dealer didn't fully explain this two digit code? >>

Umm, no I wouldn't be happy if a dealer didn't tell me they knew there was a good chance that the transmission would fall out in 2K miles. Then again, I'd never expect to see it on a sticker in the first place - nor would I expect them to sell me a car which would have this problem. That is what Lemon Laws are for.

<< Why do we hold sellers of coins to a lower standard than we would with any other product? >>

I don't. PCGS rendered their opinion of the coin. The dealer, in this case, chose to render his opinion of the coin with one word... GEM. And that is all there is to it.

The real question might be... "Why do you hold PCGS to such a high degree of infallibility, and equate coin dealers to back alley thugs?" >>

Yes, I have purchased many used cars, and in fact just purchased two last month. Your point?

relicsncoins · July 23, 2009 4:41AM

<< To me the genuine issue with this coin is all opinion and no fact. 91 stands for artificial color. A quick dip and it might grade 65+ who knows. >>

True, and that quick dip could also show 94.

Now be honest how many of you just went and looked up 94?

yellowkid · July 23, 2009 4:49AM

I don't see anything wrong with the sellers ad, nothing underhanded or in any way deceptive. Much ado about nothing.....

Res · July 23, 2009 4:57AM

Seems okay, except the sticker on the back of the slab (and the title) state "original" even though it got BB'd for questionable color.

mrpotatoheadd · July 23, 2009 4:57AM

<< likewise, people should be responsible for finding out that the car they are about to purchase has been totaled or that the house they are about to buy has a known termite problem and the foundation has been deemed structually unsound. >>

Neither of these are anywhere near comparable to the coin in question. A car that's been totalled or a house with a termite problem will always be a car that's been totalled or a house with a termite problem, regardless of how many times you re-evaluate it. Can the same be said for a coin identified at one time as having questionable color? No- it can't.

<< The seller shouldn't have to disclose any of it. >>

The seller disclosed how to find it.

<< Its easy to say these things when you work for Ford, ie you belong to the PCGS message boards, and know exactly what genuine means and where to find the two digit codes if you don't have them memorized. >>

Until I read PCGS's FAQ page, I didn't know exactly what PCGS meant by"genuine" and I don't have the codes memorized. Fortunately, however, the seller in the auction told me where to find that info.

<< It's no big deal, I guess I always try to provide as much information as I can when selling and let the chips fall where they may, instead of providing half of the information and letting the potential buyer try to figure out the other half. It usually results in less problems down the road. >>

And that seller could just as easily say he provides the relevant information, too. The fact it's not in a format that suits you is not evidence that he's wrong.

ttown · July 23, 2009 5:20AM

Here's my problem with it: 1893 ISABELLA COMMEM PCGS GENUINE SUPERB ORIGINAL GEM

As soon as he said Superb Original Gem instead it as being put in a problem holder he was okay. This is to decieve on this new PCGS labeling IMO.

PerryHall · July 23, 2009 6:20AM

It's got to be problem free. If it had a problem, wouldn't a fine and upstanding grading service like PCGS state it on their slab label?

PerryHall · July 23, 2009 6:23AM

<< Why can't people have a bit more integrety and just flat out state that PCGS bagged this coin for whatever the problem is. >>

Why can't PCGS flat out state this on their label?

What do you think about an auction like this?

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