something fishy it seems Ive only realized about teletrade...

joebb21 · June 15, 2009 8:20AM

they have hidden reserves!!!
I noticed when I kept seeing the same coin come up for the 3rd time and I went to the archive but it wasnt there!
checked some ones I had in my watch list from last night but they were not in the archive either.
no wonder it always seems they get such high bids!

did you know about this?

123cents · June 15, 2009 8:24AM

The consignors set the reverse by being able to bid on their own items up till 1 hour before the auction officially starts.

DennisH · June 15, 2009 8:25AM

<< they have hidden reserves!!!
I noticed when I kept seeing the same coin come up for the 3rd time and I went to the archive but it wasnt there!
checked some ones I had in my watch list from last night but they were not in the archive either.
no wonder it always seems they get such high bids!

did you know about this? >>

Yes. I figured it out the same way you did. Scummy, isn't it?

19Lyds · June 15, 2009 8:57AM

I contacted Ian regarding this and the reply was:

"All reserves are set in advance by the consignor - they can place them online, but all have to be entered prior to the auction start time. These are called Buyback Bids.

We will usually start the bidding at several bid increments lower than the reserve, similar to most live auctions."

What this means is that the sellers Buy Back Bid (i.e. Reserve) is not the starting price but as a bidder, you are in effect, bidding against it.

Better yet, if the Buy Back is $1,000 and you bid $500, the auction will show a bid of $550, then $600, then $650, etc, until either the "buy back" is met or the item does not sell.

Items which do not sell can be referenced but you must have the Auction and Lot number to bring them up.

adamlaneus · June 15, 2009 9:09AM

Pretending that a reserve is a bid...and making it look like bids are occuring when, in fact, the computers are slowly walking the bid price up to the reserve...

This is misleading. It is an ethical concern in my special tight-a$$ed world.

I like auction houses that are more transparent about the reserve price.

TeleTrade plays a game that is designed to get you involved in a bidding frenzy. (against a computer)

[edit] Wow, my new avatar gives my posts a harsh criminal edge!

tombr · June 15, 2009 9:10AM

You can also put the item in your tracking list. If the item actually sells, it will still be in your tracking list the next day. If it did not, it will not appear in your tracking list.

Russ · June 15, 2009 9:11AM

What's worse are all the fake sales. Many, many coins show "sold" at stupid prices, but get relisted over and over and over again.

Russ, NCNE

Cameonut · June 15, 2009 9:15AM

I agree with the comments about the way the Teletrade "system" treats the reserves.

I can see the need for the consignor to set a reserve, but for Teletrades computers to keep ratcheting up the bids toward the reserve when it is blind to the bidders is misleading. I would rather see actual bidders bidding on the lots and if they don't meet the reserve, simply indicate the winning bid didn't meet the reserve.

OR - start the auction at the reserve and save everyone alot of time.

(And so far, I have earned exactly zero gold points from Teletrade - in essence they have lost my business)

tombr · June 15, 2009 9:18AM

<< What's worse are all the fake sales. Many, many coins show "sold" at stupid prices, but get relisted over and over and over again.

Russ, NCNE >>

Indeed Russ. Though they disappear from your tracking list, they still show up as a sale in history.

Bear · June 15, 2009 11:32AM

It is not illegal, but immoral comes to mind.

OneCent · June 15, 2009 11:40AM

A perfect example of the lack of transparency exhibited by Teletrade.

Why not simpy start the auction at the reserve price? Don't answer that
one as I already know the answer....

keets · June 15, 2009 12:22PM

there is, of course, an alternative to complaining about it.........................don't use the site. simple, 'eh????

FullStepJeffs · June 15, 2009 2:12PM

<< What's worse are all the fake sales. Many, many coins show "sold" at stupid prices, but get relisted over and over and over again.

Russ, NCNE >>

Yeah, I was kinda upset when one of the coins I had listed without a reserve supposedly sold, only to find out later that it didn't.

Steve

Billet7 · June 15, 2009 2:47PM

Yeah, another reason I don't care for the firm. They aren't really auctions, they are set up to look like auctions, but they aren't.

sinin1 · June 16, 2009 3:03AM

I like to scan the prices realize the coins that sold are shown are there and the reserve not realized disappear
it shows what areas (series/denominations) are selling and what are not

even if you donb't sell with them, you should read the info for sellers as it describes buy-back terms

it can be quite pricey for sellers to have unrealistic reserves - and return shipping to seller

WaterSport · June 16, 2009 4:15AM

I also get the feeling they are "selective" about the prices realized over a coin. By this I mean if a common coin comes to auction each week and won each week for a different amount, only the highest realized prices are posted. I watched for a long time the value posted for a 1976 S proof in MS 69. That coin would sell week after week at a range from $160 - $200. But each week, only the $200 values would be listed.

WS

19Lyds · June 16, 2009 4:37AM

Personally I don't have a problem with a sellers "hidden reserve" or buy back or whatever else you want to call it. You either win the coin at your price or you don't and there's no point in whining about it.

However, I'm not a BIG fan of that $8.00 minimum buyers fee!

advalorem · June 16, 2009 4:56AM

If the consignors' item doesn't sell, the consignor is charged 5% of his "buyback/reserve" price. This is a little motivation for the consignor to put in a somewhat appealing price for the buyers.

NumbersUsacom · June 27, 2009 2:54PM

Ahhh, come on Gentlemen, teletrade has operated this way since I can remember. I have bought and sold many coins through them (during 1993-2003) and its a fine system as it stands.... for certain types of material. Just know what your willing to pay and if the reserve is higher, then you don't pay. The buyback (buyer is charged a %age of the buyback price) He/she does not get a free ride.

RedTiger · June 27, 2009 4:11PM

<< Ahhh, come on Gentlemen, teletrade has operated this way since I can remember. I have bought and sold many coins through them (during 1993-2003) and its a fine system as it stands.... for certain types of material. Just know what your willing to pay and if the reserve is higher, then you don't pay. The buyback (buyer is charged a %age of the buyback price) He/she does not get a free ride. >>

You do realize that the coins that continually get relisted are likely house owned? That's the "free ride." It is why it can be discouraging. Find a coin worth bidding on, perhaps place a bid, or see the computer enter its "house" bids, only to see the coin "not sold." Then see the same coin in an auction five weeks later, and then three months later.

If Teletrade limited their auctions to true reserves where the consignors were paying for that privilege, probably 1/2 of their listings would be gone. That's half I wouldn't have to try and guess whether it is a real auction, or a house coin with a "fishing" reserve. By "fishing" I mean an above market reserve price, hoping that someone naive comes along and thinks they are bidding against another collector instead of the house reserve.

Unknown · June 27, 2009 4:19PM

This content has been removed.

RickynCrystal · June 27, 2009 4:42PM

i will say i have never bought anything from them and i am a newbie why would i pay more for a coin that floats around on ebay or any other site i dont get into that you bid more then me if i want the coin i will not pay more then ngc or pcgs list price unless it's somthing i really want then i might go a few $ higher

wondercoin · June 27, 2009 4:57PM

This has been discussed many times here and most concluded (as I recall) the system is equally as fair as the current bidding systems used by much larger auction companies such as Bowers and Stacks to name just a couple I believe. For example, at a Bowers auction, you will have a coin reserved for $1,000 and the coin opens live on the auction floor at, say, $750. Bidding takes place in the auction room (live) and bidding stops at $975 after live bidders bid against the reserve, which is shown as a bid from the podium after someone bids live in the room and the auctioneer shows he has a bid above the bid in the room. Let's say at $975, live bidding stops in the auction room and the coin fails to meet reserve. No different than Teletrade having a "secret" reserve at $1,000 on a coin and it failing to meet the reserve - right?

Wondercoin

RickynCrystal · June 27, 2009 5:19PM

i bid half price on coins and currency if i want it i bid no more then what it's worth with buyers premium and shipping lol that is on graded coins and currency

BAJJERFAN · June 27, 2009 9:57PM

<< Pretending that a reserve is a bid...and making it look like bids are occuring when, in fact, the computers are slowly walking the bid price up to the reserve...

This is misleading. It is an ethical concern in my special tight-a$$ed world.

I like auction houses that are more transparent about the reserve price.

TeleTrade plays a game that is designed to get you involved in a bidding frenzy. (against a computer)

[edit] Wow, my new avatar gives my posts a harsh criminal edge! >>

A reserve is technically a bid as I believe the consignor has to pay the juice on his reserve bid if it doesn't sell. I think the puter only bids up house owned coins and not consignor owned coins. Why would TT want to risk buying someone's coins?

You bid what you are willing to pay and if you get it, fine. The same ol rhetoric thats preached here about eBay and other auction venues.

Tiny · June 27, 2009 10:29PM

joebb21, I would use your name but you don't have a profile listed to get it from.
I'm Richard but better known as Tiny by my friends so you can call me Tiny. You
started in on Teletrade on my thread last night and as I told you then,

" Set your mind on a price even more so than when bidding on eBay and figure
the % and the shipping. I have got some very good deals and some so so but I
have all ways been happy with what I get. "

And like Al put it,

" there is, of course, an alternative to complaining about it.........................don't use the site. simple, 'eh???? "

Have you ever won off Teletrade before? Are you a regular bidder? I have got a bunch
on coins from them and yes I have been POd at them but hey ya got work the system
as in many ways of life. Work their ways to your advantage and ask for help from people
that use them and enjoy buying from them.

Now I don't bid on Heritage or any of the so called " Quality Auction Houses " I guess only
because I haven't ever tried but I wil one day and if I have a bad time with them I'll learn
how to use them not bad mouth them.

Teletrade's ways of doing business may really suck as you and others say but the coins
I have got from them were fair priced even with the buyers premium and the shipping. Their
pictures may leave a little to be desired but have you seen those sorry a$$ ones many of the
big sellers on eBay and so many coin web sites have. Many of them are scans and just
how the heck do tell anything about a coin from a dang SCAN ???

All right I've clamed down and NO I do not work a Teletrade I just like buying off the auctions,
listings, rip offs, computer generated or "Bot Sales" if you like or just what ever you want to
call them.

Tiny

YaHa · June 27, 2009 10:42PM

<< joebb21, I would use your name but you don't have a profile listed to get it from.
I'm Richard but better known as Tiny by my friends so you can call me Tiny. You
started in on Teletrade on my thread last night and as I told you then,

" Set your mind on a price even more so than when bidding on eBay and figure
the % and the shipping. I have got some very good deals and some so so but I
have all ways been happy with what I get. "

And like Al put it,

" there is, of course, an alternative to complaining about it.........................don't use the site. simple, 'eh???? "

Have you ever won off Teletrade before? Are you a regular bidder? I have got a bunch
on coins from them and yes I have been POd at them but hey ya got work the system
as in many ways of life. Work their ways to your advantage and ask for help from people
that use them and enjoy buying from them.

Now I don't bid on Heritage or any of the so called " Quality Auction Houses " I guess only
because I haven't ever tried but I wil one day and if I have a bad time with them I'll learn
how to use them not bad mouth them.

Teletrade's ways of doing business may really suck as you and others say but the coins
I have got from them were fair priced even with the buyers premium and the shipping. Their
pictures may leave a little to be desired but have you seen those sorry a$$ ones many of the
big sellers on eBay and so many coin web sites have. Many of them are scans and just
how the heck do tell anything about a coin from a dang SCAN ???

All right I've clamed down and NO I do not work a Teletrade I just like buying off the auctions,
listings, rip offs, computer generated or "Bot Sales" if you like or just what ever you want to
call them.

Tiny >>

Tiny... You are 100% correct about your theory of TT.. Remember a seller has their price in mind when they set their reserve..

No one is going to list a coin @.99 on TT... This is another venue to sell a coin at your asking minus the fees and shipping that TT should get for having a cool place to buy coins from.

So, Tiny, very well put.. I for one love TT.. I sell many high dollar coins on TT. Also have bought many too..

COALPORTER · June 28, 2009 12:36AM

<< What's worse are all the fake sales. Many, many coins show "sold" at stupid prices, but get relisted over and over and over again.

Russ, NCNE >>

What's really funny is when they notify you of a similar coin in an upcomming auction, and it's really THE SAME COIN !! LOL!

RedTiger · June 28, 2009 1:43AM

<< 

<< What's worse are all the fake sales. Many, many coins show "sold" at stupid prices, but get relisted over and over and over again.

Russ, NCNE >>

What's really funny is when they notify you of a similar coin in an upcomming auction, and it's really THE SAME COIN !! LOL! >>

This part I haven't observed. If true, it would certainly be unethical. This practice would establish high "fake" sale prices to shill clients just to establish a higher baseline for future sales. Their loophole would be returned coins, however, if they are being sold to "house" clients that can return for no fee, just as "house" coins can be relisted for no fee, it smells rotten, and it makes things worse than what I have been seeing.

As always readers, I try to stay away from bashing, and I also shy away from happy talk. Folks should know what is really going on, and not be one of the naive novices that get taken in by Teletrade's business practices. From the comments, it appears that the dark side of Teletrade is mostly unknown to the novice readers. The sellers who use it have come in to defend because they have a dog in the hunt, so take their comments for what they are.

I do not hear similar reports going on at the other major auction firms. Perhaps they do go on, but the percentage of coins that the "house" seems involved in at Teletrade seems an order of magnitude higher than at other firms.

wondercoin · June 28, 2009 2:02AM

From time to time, a coin of mine sells on Teletrade and Gil notifies me Teletrade has determined it was a bogus bid and reverses out the bid (and bans the bidder). I greatly appreciate as a consignor that Teletrade address this problem early and not 38 days later at "settlement date". Once this happens, my coin(s) gets placed for sale in the next available auction (even though the coin show as having just sold in the prior auction). Nothing sinister going on here at all (other than what the deadbeat bidder did to Teletrade and myself). I sure hope Teletrade notifies all the bidders in the prior sale that the coin is available once again - otherwise, I could be impacted the next time the coin comes up for sale.

From a bidder standpoint, I personally believe they are running a clean auction, which is why I comfortably placed a $50,000+ bid to win a coin for the mid-$20,000's not too long ago (a pop 1/0 MS67 Lib nickel). I posted a thread on it right here as well as I recall.

Wondercoin

PawPaul · June 28, 2009 5:28AM

No doubt what you describe happens Mitch - but maybe on 1 out of a 1000........ if that ?

Sometimes I 'll grant you , odd things appear to happen at Teletrade ; but I don't believe the company knowingly tricks anybody .

they got some faults - but nobodys perfect .

I myself have bought and sold close to a thousand coins since B. Rome created Teletrade and some of the best pieces in my collection are from Teletrade .

pennyannie · June 28, 2009 5:56AM

I no longer spend any money at TT, to many other places to spend it. I did not like the way they run it but it is their place and not mine. I am sure they do not miss me.

NumbersUsacom · June 28, 2009 9:36AM

RedTiger,

No I was not considering the house owned. You have a very valid point on that issue.

ElmerFusterpuck · June 28, 2009 9:54AM

What RedTiger described does happen. Last year, I was tracking a MS-67 PCGS 1956-D Roosevelt dime. It 'sold' for $130. Not too long later, I was notified of a similar coin coming up, which turned out to be the same one. This one was a happy ending; I got the coin for $33. I really don't think it 'sold' to begin with either.

wondercoin · June 28, 2009 11:05AM

Pawpaul - Seriously, in your opinion, what happens the other 999 times out of a 1000?

Wondercoin

PawPaul · June 28, 2009 11:36AM

...i think the coin gets legitimately bid on and the buyer pays and either keeps or returns the coin(s) .

I'm thinking that no more then 1 in a thousand lots are bid on by unscrupulous people who have no intent to actually buy the coin(s)

leothelyon · June 28, 2009 12:35PM

Hi Joe
Here's a similar thread that I had some questions concerning Teletrade's set-up. But all and all, you must have some idea on the value of the coin that interests you and bid accordingly. Personally, since I can enter several max bids up to a certain time, I've learned not to place my very top max until I'm certain that's the amount I want to pay or I'll back out. It depends on the coin but I have let a few coins ride only to find them relisted again. I have also had coins sell but resurface again in a matter of weeks where I end up with them anyways. But the bottom line, I've stuck with a value/price and paid pretty close to my estimate, that sometimes includes the TT fees. Seldom have I ever gone hogwild on a coin because it was a "one of a kind" type of coin (on TT) but I have.
I collect the JN series, something alot of folks don't get too excited about so I have ended up with some very nice coins, however far and and very few come along.
From a seller's prospective, depending on where the market is on some coins, like it's been said, no-one is going to list coins on TT for .99 but it's a place where the market can be tested for a fee, however that compares to other avenues but their photography IMO is far better than what's out there to choose your coins from.

Leo

clackamas · June 28, 2009 1:00PM

Its better than having one of the Stacks, or one of the Heritage guys shilling in the open and you can even return coins to teletrade.

PerryHall · June 28, 2009 10:56PM

<< ........and you can even return coins to teletrade. >>

........with a restocking fee.

BAJJERFAN · June 28, 2009 11:10PM

<< ...i think the coin gets legitimately bid on and the buyer pays and either keeps or returns the coin(s) . >>

A returned coin shows as sold and is kept in the archives as such.

7Jaguars · June 28, 2009 11:16PM

Not that they care, but I wonder if they have ever considered that their policies have in the long run chased potential bidders away. I would say that is definately me, and whereas I used to regularly check their listings I only do it sporadically now and even less frequently bid because of it. Also, I think the potential bidder can count on adding at least 20% on to the "sale price" for fees, premium, etc.

PawPaul · June 29, 2009 7:57AM

<< 

<< ...i think the coin gets legitimately bid on and the buyer pays and either keeps or returns the coin(s) . >>

A returned coin shows as sold and is kept in the archives as such. >>

....yes- I complained about that many times on deaf ears ; they stand behind the belief that it was "sold" but got "returned " ...........

how stupid do they have to be to perpetuate that kind of irrational thought behavior ?????

.if it wern't for them implementing the acceptance of credit card and Paypal payments - they would have gone belly up years ago

As I pointed out several times ; about every third auction ends up with half the lots unsold

.....but u gotta love them for what they are

bushmaster8 · June 30, 2009 6:49AM

I used to have my doubts about "house owned" coins on TT.

But how else does one explain coins like this one?

I can say confidently it has been in at least a dozen different auctions...

BAJJERFAN · June 30, 2009 7:15AM

<< I used to have my doubts about "house owned" coins on TT.

But how else does one explain coins like this one?

I can say confidently it has been in at least a dozen different auctions... >>

They may have collected more in return fees than the coin would have sold for. LOL

bestday · June 30, 2009 8:44AM

<< I no longer spend any money at TT, to many other places to spend it. I did not like the way they run it but it is their place and not mine. I am sure they do not miss me. >>

Strange ,but my max bid would hit almost 100 % of the time

something fishy it seems Ive only realized about teletrade...

Comments

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

Leave a Comment