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Wouldn't it be great if coin grading was done by machine?
doh
Posts: 6,457 ✭✭✭
Like the S.A.T., every coin that comes in gets fed into a little machine that scans it for wear patterns, nicks, scratches, luster, toning and shoots out a grade. Every time the same coin goes in, the same grade comes out. The only problem is, like SkyNet, it would eventually become self aware and start handing out grades that don't quite fit or missing obvious signs of cleaning just like typical humans do. And we wouldn't have Arnold Schwarzenegger to save us. Oh well, one can dream.
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I don't think it would.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
I will take Old Blind Bob, One eyed Jack
and Crazy Carl, any day over a machine.
Camelot
<< <i>I'd grade that an MS-66, Dave. >>
It will probably be perfected and put in place ... some day.
<< <i>It's been tried already and it wasn't a good idea. >>
I don't think it's a bad idea. It just has some limitations. If done right, I think it would eliminate much of the subjectivity that can be removed. Having said that, there are certainly factors in a coin that will always be subjective in terms of grade and value.
Having said that, there's too much money to be made in the subjectivity of assigning a numerical grade and other attributes to a coin to move to a computer which would give the same grade every time on the same coin. That would kill the cash cow.
<< <i>PCGS already tried that years ago. I believe it was back in 1990 or so, and the machine was called 'The PCGS Expert'. The concept was soon thereafter scrapped. >>
I would say the technology has improved ever so slightly since 1990.
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
as well as a 1000 point scale......with decimal
points too. In addition there will be diamonds,
stars and happy faces on the slabs. All this as well
as stickers from CAC, COUGH, GASP, HACK and PATOOIE !
Camelot
And imagine if these machines were available.
Then a coin doctor could get a machine and pre-flight their doctored coins with great accuracy, fine tuning the doctoring for the desired results.
Prof Frink: "With our new grade-o-tron 3000, we bring the world of coin grading into the modern age. n'hey. Hoyvinglayvin!"
<gives machine a coin>
<machine beeps and prints out results>
Prof Frink: "The machine has graded this coin a MS-54? What? Why you lousy..."
At the present rate I feel confident that in time this indeed will be quite "do-able".
In fact, I believe it's inevitable.
JMHO - FWIW!
<< <i>Eye appeal is the real challenge.
Lane >>
Challenge? How can you program something that can't even be quantified?
<< <i>Eye appeal is the real challenge. >>
Agreed, and that's always going to be a subjective factor.
I think this is easier to apply to circulated coins than to mint state coins, because at the MS level, so much of the grade (and value) are determined by subjective factors. I think a "machine" can do a decent job at looking at the number (and location) of hits, but ultimately the overall eye appeal of the coin has to be determined by a market composed of fallible humans.
<< <i>Eye appeal is the real challenge. >>
If you ask me, eye appeal wouldn't be part of the grade in a perfect world. Coins with poor eye appeal because of cleanings or other damage wouldn't be graded. Coins with toning - pretty or not - would be graded based on technical aspects that can be quantified, amount of wear or dings, etc.
in making sure it doesn't come to be, for pretty obvious reasons.
Poor example BUT if a once in a lifetime injection would insure no one would EVER get ill,
it would never fly because it's existence would basically put professional caregivers
all the way down to pharmaceutical companies totally out of business.
Food for thought, for sure. If the machine does TOO WELL ...
I think this is the real reason why such a computerized system will never work.
Again, JMHO, FWIW!
The coins in receiving are loosely sorted into bins and then await the Cyber Grade™
cycle.
Highly specialized sorters quickly determine the denomination and send the coin into the automated grading machine.
Here we see a new batch of 2009 Formative Year Lincolns being transported so the appropriate DDR-001 thru DDR-033 can be assigned.
The Cyber Grade™ grading room. Automated grading machines line the building and run constantly due to the supply and demand for accurately graded coins.
Here we see a close up of the automated grading machine that assigns the Cyber Grade™
to the submitted coin. This feat is accomplished in a split second and is accurate up to +/- .005% an acceptable standard as adopted by the ANA.
Body Bagged coins arrive by conveyor and sorted into various hoppers. Since no explanation is required, they get a generic label and are returned to the submitter.
Finally, the high speed automatic slabbing machine is the last function of the Cyber Grade™ cycle. From this point, the Cyber Graded slabs get shipped out to happy customers all over the world.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
<< <i>
<< <i>Eye appeal is the real challenge. >>
If you ask me, eye appeal wouldn't be part of the grade in a perfect world. Coins with poor eye appeal because of cleanings or other damage wouldn't be graded. Coins with toning - pretty or not - would be graded based on technical aspects that can be quantified, amount of wear or dings, etc. >>
In a perfect world I agree. Unfortunately (IMO), the coin market is pretty clearly saying it wants a grade that reflects value, not absolute condition. The market wants "market pricing" which is anathema to what computers could do with respect to technical grading.
<< <i>Today's technology is leaps & bounds ahead of what was just a few years ago.
At the present rate I feel confident that in time this indeed will be quite "do-able".
In fact, I believe it's inevitable.
JMHO - FWIW!
............i totally agree.
a little, will it still grade the same?
This machine will need a human overseer until it can hit about a 98% accuracy and as long as a
human has to grade it then why use a machine.
The day is coming.
As a coin tones it would seem reasonable that the grade assigned using market-grading might vary. After all, the toning could change to make the coin signficantly more (or less) desirable, which would mean that the market grade would change. So I see no problem if a machine grades a toned coin differently after the coin's toning increases.
<< <i>cladking:
As a coin tones it would seem reasonable that the grade assigned using market-grading might vary. After all, the toning could change to make the coin signficantly more (or less) desirable, which would mean that the market grade would change. So I see no problem if a machine grades a toned coin differently after the coin's toning increases. >>
I don't disagree but the machine has to grade it consistently nonetheless. If the
grade goes up at some point then it has to stay up or go higher unless it crosses
some line and drops. It can't be thrown by a little toning or a lot. Well... ...I guess
it can if it can maintain a good enough accuracy.
It certainly is a complicated process to program. It's not all that easy to learn and
there are always nuances and unfamiliar series.
One methodology would be to use known examples as reference points, rather than trying to figure out pixel by pixel what a nice coin looks like. Take thousands coins of varying grades, that are midrange for their given grade, these coins can be slabbed or raw. Feed those images and grades in to set a baseline database to compare new coins to. As coins come in for grading, have the program look for similar looking coins in the existing database and assign grades accordingly. Obviously there will need to be a lot of coins fed in to have a respectable sampling. Obviously, the machine still won't be perfect or close to perfect. However, if human graders override the machine, that new coin image with the override grade is added to the database and the software adapts and becomes more accurate over time.
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But , Coinstar™ will bypass the grading and only charge 8% for rendering it's opinion.
It will reject the good stuff and that's not so bad.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Wouldn't it be great if coin grading was done by machine? >>
since by def'n it is impossible , then no it would not be great at all
K S
No it would suck
............even in the future....................CAC will sort everything out.
<< <i>Before PCGS has their EXPERT system, CompuGrade tried...and failed. The technology was not good enough to be reproducible.
Lane >>
It was absolutely reproducible. But it cost PCGS and crackout scammers too much money, since crackouts could not possibly result in an upgrade.
<< <i>Before PCGS has their EXPERT system, CompuGrade tried...and failed. The technology was not good enough to be reproducible. Lane >>
The technology is good enough right now...including the spatial dimensions of each letter, scratches, dings, etc. Problem at the moment it's classified. Possibly in another 10-15 years
it may become available to the public. It will happen, people make more mistakes as we move forward.
I didn't say the above...........I'm not sure I even heard it.
PS. If you were 1,000 miles away, and there was no curvature of the earth and limited atmospheric interference, I can see you and give you the thread count of the shirt you are wearing. And the type of material it's made from. Count the pores on your nose if I got bored........the optics industry is more advanced and unheard of than any other industry I'm aware of. It thrives in my community. What I just said is not classified. However the price of entry is a bit beyond what a small company such as PCGS would want to pony up. As for us patriotic folks, hey, the other guys already know what we have, so no problem w/this post............