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Have a problem with a card I just received---Resolution Update
bman90278
Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭
I'm wondering what I should do about a bb card I purchased off of ebay. Here is the description of the card:
<< <i>Card and Auto are MINT
This listing is only for the card on the left...the other will be listed separately.
JSA/BGS is equivalent to PSA/DNA. When I was in high school (15-20 years ago), I used to send cards in to the stadiums and request autographs. That is how obtained these autographs I am posting. I am the only owner. Last year I finally sent them in to get authenticated and don't have much interest in the hobby any longer, so here they are.
this is the only one i saw on ebay SLABBED authentic...everyone else gives you a piece of paper stating it is authentic
please check out my other cards, add $1 shipping for each additional auction won >>
I received the card on Saturday and the card is not mint. Card has a crease that goes across the entire card..Actually looks look it was almost folded. The scan the seller had on ebay is small enough that I didn't see the crease. Also, not a big deal, I paid for $4.00 shipping and the shipping was less than $2.00.
Even though I only paid $15.00 total I don't feel satisfied with this purchase and the card is clearly not Mint. There is NO WAY the seller did not see the crease. What should I do about it?
Brian
<< <i>Card and Auto are MINT
This listing is only for the card on the left...the other will be listed separately.
JSA/BGS is equivalent to PSA/DNA. When I was in high school (15-20 years ago), I used to send cards in to the stadiums and request autographs. That is how obtained these autographs I am posting. I am the only owner. Last year I finally sent them in to get authenticated and don't have much interest in the hobby any longer, so here they are.
this is the only one i saw on ebay SLABBED authentic...everyone else gives you a piece of paper stating it is authentic
please check out my other cards, add $1 shipping for each additional auction won >>
I received the card on Saturday and the card is not mint. Card has a crease that goes across the entire card..Actually looks look it was almost folded. The scan the seller had on ebay is small enough that I didn't see the crease. Also, not a big deal, I paid for $4.00 shipping and the shipping was less than $2.00.
Even though I only paid $15.00 total I don't feel satisfied with this purchase and the card is clearly not Mint. There is NO WAY the seller did not see the crease. What should I do about it?
Brian
0
Comments
Steve
<< <i>After I contact the seller I would quit the hobby. >>
Really? Can you explain in details why I should?
Thanks,
Brian
<< <i>Yep, contact seller, see about a return, if that fails file a SNAD with PP.
Steve >>
That's what I plan on doing. Does the seller at least deserve a Neutral feedback since he overcharges for shipping and clearly had to see the blem on the card?
Brian
As the buyer you hold all cards.
Tell him you are returning card with delivery conf. and he needs to issue refund.
If he says no, file PP claim and leave a neg.
Easy
<< <i>
<< <i>Yep, contact seller, see about a return, if that fails file a SNAD with PP.
Steve >>
That's what I plan on doing. Does the seller at least deserve a Neutral feedback since he overcharges for shipping and clearly had to see the blem on the card?
Brian >>
anyone that buys something with the shipping price CLEARLY stated in the auction and then complains about it is an idiot, imo. Either figure the shipping amount (as most people do) into the purchase price or DONT BUY SOMETHING IF YOU DONT LIKE HOW MUCH THE SHIPPING IS.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Yep, contact seller, see about a return, if that fails file a SNAD with PP.
Steve >>
That's what I plan on doing. Does the seller at least deserve a Neutral feedback since he overcharges for shipping and clearly had to see the blem on the card?
Brian >>
anyone that buys something with the shipping price CLEARLY stated in the auction and then complains about it is an idiot, imo. Either figure the shipping amount (as most people do) into the purchase price or DONT BUY SOMETHING IF YOU DONT LIKE HOW MUCH THE SHIPPING IS. >>
Brian is NOT an idiot, his main argument is the card was not described truthfully.
<< <i>
anyone that buys something with the shipping price CLEARLY stated in the auction and then complains about it is an idiot, imo. Either figure the shipping amount (as most people do) into the purchase price or DONT BUY SOMETHING IF YOU DONT LIKE HOW MUCH THE SHIPPING IS. >>
That response is totally out of line and not respectful.
The quote below is from my original post.
<< <i>Also, not a big deal, I paid for $4.00 shipping and the shipping was less than $2.00.
>>
I have NO PROBLEM with the shipping price of $4.00 if it's mailed in an appropriate package like USPS parcel post, but $4.00 for an envelope isn't cutting it. Either way, the shipping isn't my problem, it's the card having a bad crease.
Respectfully,
Brian
<< <i>
Brian is NOT an idiot, his main argument is the card was not described truthfully. >>
Thanks Paul.
I was a GM of a multi-million dollar mail order company and was a Top 10 Dealer for Ford Motorsports for many years (now Ford Racing) so I completely understand you always want the customers to call first before any action and I have always done the same as a buyer. As a GM I always took care of the customers needs regardless if it was our fault or if the customer was totally out of line.
Paul's comment is 100% correct, "his main argument is the card was not described truthfully."
I NEVER buy ungraded cards on ebay just because grading is very subjective and in most cases, we as ebay buyers are dealing with sellers who are unknown.
Yes the majority of the board members here in CU seem to show very realistic grading on their cards where a very high majority of raw cards on ebay are Clearly NOT what the sellers grade.
I was buying this card on ebay for my personal Dodgers rookie collection and I have no intention of cracking out the card for a grade, it was only for an authentic slab....But having the card with a crease across the entire card is not cool.
Brian
I had already contacted the seller on Saturday and awaiting his response.
I totally understand I will take care of shipping the card back to the seller....Is it acceptable that I require him to do a full refund of the $15.00 which includes the $4.00 shipping?
Thanks,
Brian
<< <i>I should have added this to my original post.
I had already contacted the seller on Saturday and awaiting his response.
I totally understand I will take care of shipping the card back to the seller....Is it acceptable that I require him to do a full refund of the $15.00 which includes the $4.00 shipping?
Thanks,
Brian >>
Absolutely he should refund you for the shipping as well, bottom line the seller basically LIED about the description in his auction, its not like you got the card as described and changed your mind about the purchase. You did not receive what you were told you would be buying and that is on the seller.
Let me know how you make out Brian.
<< <i>
Absolutely he should refund you for the shipping as well, bottom line the seller basically LIED about the description in his auction, its not like you got the card as described and changed your mind about the purchase. You did not receive what you were told you would be buying and that is on the seller.
Let me know how you make out Brian. >>
Thanks Paul,
I will make sure that's what the seller does and I will file a SNAD with PP like the others mentioned.
Thanks,Brian
I also didn't say anything about your complaint as to the condition of the card. I would send the card back as well, and I don't like when cards are blatantly misrepresented with the intent to fool someone. That being said, I always assume the seller has fluffed the condition of the cards and bid accordingly.
<< <i>I wasn't specifically calling you an idiot. I just meant that anyone that complains about shipping after seeing the shipping price clearly listed is most definitely in the wrong. If you think the shipping is too high or that you can get the shipping cheaper then don't bid.
I also didn't say anything about your complaint as to the condition of the card. I would send the card back as well, and I don't like when cards are blatantly misrepresented with the intent to fool someone. That being said, I always assume the seller has fluffed the condition of the cards and bid accordingly. >>
Then I apologize for what I said in regards to your reply, but keep in mind that I only stated,
<< <i>Also, not a big deal, I paid for $4.00 shipping and the shipping was less than $2.00. >>
I had actually paid $4.00 and the shipping on his envelope was actually $1.56.
Brian
I only feel my handling is worth $.37 since I usually charge $2.50 for shipping and the mailer usually ships with DC for $2.13. Although I have noticed that different PO's charge different rates for the exact same mailer, which would in turn either raise or lower my handling fees.
I just think its ridiculous to buy something and then after the fact complain about the terms of the listing that were clearly stated.
Focus on the real problem of the creased card and getting your return postage back.
According to the seller's terms he has 7 day return policy, return cost to be paid by buyer.
Return card and ask that your return cost be refunded due to crease in card.
It's not like you could switch card seeing how it's sealed in a Beckett holder.
You will get your money back returning it or filing a SNAD.
SNAD won't get your return postage back, asking for it nicely because of creased card might.
LINK to card.
Where is the complaint?
Steve
It wasn't a big complaint, but clearly the buyer is not happy with the $2+ overcharge in shipping.
Steve
I think it was more of an error on his part.
Could have been left over from another auction.
I mean who describes as 'mint' a card with a crease running right through it?
Steve
People make mistakes. God knows I have used "sell a similar item" and missed a detail left over from the last. I change it when I see it and if it impacts the sellers decision, I will always allow a retraction/refund, my mistake. Gratefully, most buyers appreciate an honest mistake and effort to correct.
Give the guy a chance to correct it. I cant imagine he would risk 100% feedback on a $15 item he clearly made a woops on.
JHMO.
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
My Ebay Auctions
EDIT TO ADD: I'm talking about a full refund including shipping. That's probably over $20.
<< <i>Steve makes a good point. Take a deep breath here; the guy has 867 perfect feedbacks and read back the thiings buyers have to say about him.
People make mistakes. God knows I have used "sell a similar item" and missed a detail left over from the last. I change it when I see it and if it impacts the sellers decision, I will always allow a retraction/refund, my mistake. Gratefully, most buyers appreciate an honest mistake and effort to correct.
Give the guy a chance to correct it. I cant imagine he would risk 100% feedback on a $15 item he clearly made a woops on.
JHMO. >>
Very well said. I will always give someone a chance to make good and hopefully he didn't notice the crease too, but its hard to say.
Brian
<< <i>He should pay all the postage because he lied about the condition. He should get a neg for it if he doesn't pay in full. He should probably get a neg anyway. >>
I agree about the shipping being refunded because of that reason, but I really wouldn't neg him for that if he takes care of it. The worst I would do is a neutral or maybe not leave anything after the issue is taken care of.
Brian
<< <i>My way of thinking is that if I say shipping is gonna be $10 for a specific item then the bidder/buyer should add $10 to what they are willing to pay for it. If someone from California buys it then I might have to pay a little more than $10 or right at $10, whereas if someone from Georgia buys it then it might only cost me $6, but I'm not gonna refund $4 just because the buyer happened to be close to me. Now if it were a heavy item that I had $50 shipping on and someone from Atlanta emailed me and asked if they bought it would I ship it for less then, yes I'd ship it for less, but generally the $1 here or there thing comes out in the wash over several transactions so I don't ever sweat it.
I just think its ridiculous to buy something and then after the fact complain about the terms of the listing that were clearly stated. >>
Again, my issue is NOT THE SHIPPING! It was only something I mentioned in my previous post. I've been overcharged on my items I've bought over the years and have NEVER complained nor neg'd someone. The issue is that I received a card with a crease and that it wasn't mentioned in the listing. Additionally, when I have bought cards with autos, I'm not worried about a card having soft corners, or centering issues.....But I won't be happy getting a card with a crease when the auction says Mint condition.
Brian
Highlighting MINT should mean no creases.
Just saying..
I agree with you, I was just thinking aloud.
Either it was a description left over from another auction or the guy did not see it.
The bottom line is how does this seller fix this?
Full refund including shipping is what I'd do. I might even pay the return shipping.
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>Steve makes a good point. Take a deep breath here; the guy has 867 perfect feedbacks and read back the thiings buyers have to say about him.
People make mistakes. God knows I have used "sell a similar item" and missed a detail left over from the last. I change it when I see it and if it impacts the sellers decision, I will always allow a retraction/refund, my mistake. Gratefully, most buyers appreciate an honest mistake and effort to correct.
Give the guy a chance to correct it. I cant imagine he would risk 100% feedback on a $15 item he clearly made a woops on.
JHMO. >>
Very well said. I will always give someone a chance to make good and hopefully he didn't notice the crease too, but its hard to say.
Brian >>
I collect a lot of Dodger stuff and I have a non-certified (well it once had the "piece of paper" certificate) signed copy of the exact card. I would wager anything that it's authentic and it's not creased. It's yours if you PM your address.
Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
<< <i>I have a question. Why do people, when they get something they don't like, something gets fouled up, whatever, come over here for advice? Do we really expect to get good advice that we don't already know, or do we just come here to rant? >>
I'm not ranting. I knew there will always be snide remarks, but I never said I would Neg the seller and I never made any threats. I didn't appreciate being called an idiot. That's all.
The facts : I wanted to make sure I wasn't being petty over a cheap card
I had already sent the seller a letter and still awaiting response and I will follow the advice and file a Paypal SNAD if needed.
I will also follow the advice and see if I get the full refund of the $15.00.
A couple of others even said I could have the seller handle the return shipping, but I didn't expect that.
I will give the seller every chance to rectify the situation.
My problem isn't the shipping. I only mentioned it as the guy charges excessive shipping which is a ebay violation if you want to be technical...But it is not the basis of my issue.
Brian
here are the scans of the card.
My problem isn't the shipping. I only mentioned it as the guy charges excessive shipping which is a ebay violation if you want to be technical...But it is not the basis of my issue.
Brian
//////////////////////
Being "technical," based on EBAY's ridiculously-stated TOS, $4.00 in this transaction,
probably really IS a violation.
On the one hand, they "allow" a handling fee, BUT then exclude every definition that
might be reasonably considered a "handling fee."
BIN sellers are MUCH better off if they offer pretend "FREE" shipping and then simply
add WHATEVER amount they choose to the total price. Sadly, auction sellers cannot
make that scheme work for themselves.
Buyers are currently having a heyday buying slabbed items for less than grading/authentication
costs. The supply of generous/broke sellers is not inexhaustible. At some point, MANY sellers will
likely decide it is better to throw the stuff in the garbage can than to pay EBAY for the privilege of
"selling" it.
....
.................................
Excessive Shipping Charges Policy
When listing an item using eBay’s shipping calculator, or specifying a shipping cost in categories for which eBay does not set maximum shipping and handling charges, sellers may charge reasonable shipping and handling fees to cover the costs of mailing, packaging, and handling. eBay will rely on member reports and its own discretion to determine whether or not a seller’s shipping, handling, packaging, and/or insurance charges are excessive. Shipping and handling fees may not be listed as a percentage of the final sale price.
Shipping and handling charges may include:
Actual Shipping cost: This is the actual cost paid to the carrier (i.e. postage) for shipping the item.
Handling Fee: Actual packaging material costs may be charged. A handling fee in addition to actual shipping cost may be charged if it is not excessive.
Insurance: Sellers may offer buyers insurance and extra services provided through the carrier at actual cost. These services include, but are not limited to: Certificate of Mailing, Certified Mail, Collect on Delivery, Delivery Confirmation, Insured Mail, Registered Mail, Restricted Delivery, Return Receipt, Signature Confirmation and Special Handling.
Charges not allowed in Shipping & Handling:
Tax: Only actual applicable federal, state, country, city, VAT, and equivalent taxes may be charged.
Additional insurance protection: No additional amount such as “self insurance” may be added. Sellers who do not use a licensed 3rd party insurance company may not require buyers to purchase insurance. This is a violation of state law.
Tariffs and duties: For cross border transactions, sellers may not collect tariffs and duties. However, buyer may be responsible for actual tariffs and duties as required by country laws.
Fees related to Shipping & Handling: Gasoline, mileage, time spent at a carrier, time spent packaging the item, eBay and PayPal fees may not be added.
Categories with maximum shipping charges:
In some categories, eBay sets maximum shipping and handling charges. When listing in these categories, the only time when sellers are allowed to charge more than the maximum is when using the shipping calculator to set the actual size and weight of the item, including packing materials. When using the shipping calculator, sellers should make sure the calculated cost isn’t higher than the actual shipping cost or it will be considered excessive shipping.
Free shipping:
Sellers may offer free shipping to select or all destinations. For a destination denoted as free shipping, no others fees related to shipping, handling, or packaging may be charged.
Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:
Listing cancellation
Limits on account privileges
Account suspension
Forfeiture of eBay fees on cancelled listings
Loss of PowerSeller status
<< <i>I'm wondering what I should do about a bb card I purchased off of ebay. Here is the description of the card:
<< <i>
JSA/BGS is equivalent to PSA/DNA. When I was in high school (15-20 years ago), I used to send cards in to the stadiums and request autographs. That is how obtained these autographs I am posting. I am the only owner. Last year I finally sent them in to get authenticated and don't have much interest in the hobby any longer, so here they are.
this is the only one i saw on ebay SLABBED authentic...everyone else gives you a piece of paper stating it is authentic
please check out my other cards, add $1 shipping for each additional auction won >>
Brian >>
Is it really a violation of state law? I read in the coin forum that ebay was FOS on this.
Not arguing with anyone just asking a question.
Steve
<< <i>Sellers who do not use a licensed 3rd party insurance company may not require buyers to purchase insurance. This is a violation of state law.
.......
Is it really a violation of state law? I read in the coin forum that ebay was FOS on this.
Not arguing with anyone just asking a question.
Steve >>
/////////////////////////
NO state permits unlicensed companies/persons to underwrite/issue/sell
insurance.
Charging an ala carte fee for "self insurance" constitutes the unlawful
underwriting, issuance and sale of insurance.
Charging an ala carte fee for coverage under a regulated insurance
policy that has been lawfully issued to YOU, constituites the unlawful
repackaging and sale of insurance.
State insurance commissioners/regulators have prosecutorial authority
to refer/bring charges against folks/companies that violate the regs.
On EBAY - using "self insurance" and/or "insurance issued to YOU by
a licensed third-party" - is NOT a violation of state law, PROVIDED NO
ala carte fee is collected by YOU to fund YOUR premiums.
The correct model is that used by 4SC. They have a third-party issued
policy that covers losses they may incurr. The insurance indemnifies them
and they pass the benefits to their customers, WITHOUT charging an
ala carte fee for the coverage.
........
To get the macro view of why both honest folks and gangsters are prohibited
from issuing unregulated insurance, look to how AIG nearly brought the
world's economy to its knees by collecting premiums on vapor-policies that
were totally unreserved and existed only on paper.
So basically Frankscoins was FOS when he tried to tell me that ebay was wrong and anyone could
charge for insurance on ebay and self insure. I figured that.
Steve
<< <i> BIN sellers are MUCH better off if they offer pretend "FREE" shipping and then simply
add WHATEVER amount they choose to the total price. Sadly, auction sellers cannot
make that scheme work for themselves.
>>
I don't understand how it's in anyone's best interest (except eBay) to do this. There's no such thing as a free lunch so the escrow shipping cost also is subject to the FVF whereas itemizing shipping protects it.
<< <i>
<< <i> BIN sellers are MUCH better off if they offer pretend "FREE" shipping and then simply
add WHATEVER amount they choose to the total price. Sadly, auction sellers cannot
make that scheme work for themselves.
>>
I don't understand how it's in anyone's best interest (except eBay) to do this. There's no such thing as a free lunch so the escrow shipping cost also is subject to the FVF whereas itemizing shipping protects it. >>
////////////////////////////////////////
It has been years since I had a discussion with a buyer
about how my shipping and handling was "too high."
That makes me "MUCH better off."
Buyers pay for ALL expenses on EBAY. Including the
FVF on the shipping fee.
I understand what you guys are saying and the assumption is that the buyer is an idiot, incapable of understanding concepts such as $10+$4 is less than $15, which holds true for 99.9% of the time. It may sound trivial on a case-by-case basis, but I'm sure the extra FVF on the escrow postage adds up to a hefty amount.
/////////////////////////////
The buyer PAYS that. It is included in the BIN price.
Obviously, auctions are a different critter.
<< <i>I'm wondering what I should do about a bb card I purchased off of ebay. Here is the description of the card:
<< <i>Card and Auto are MINT
This listing is only for the card on the left...the other will be listed separately.
JSA/BGS is equivalent to PSA/DNA. When I was in high school (15-20 years ago), I used to send cards in to the stadiums and request autographs. That is how obtained these autographs I am posting. I am the only owner. Last year I finally sent them in to get authenticated and don't have much interest in the hobby any longer, so here they are.
this is the only one i saw on ebay SLABBED authentic...everyone else gives you a piece of paper stating it is authentic
please check out my other cards, add $1 shipping for each additional auction won >>
I received the card on Saturday and the card is not mint. Card has a crease that goes across the entire card..Actually looks look it was almost folded. The scan the seller had on ebay is small enough that I didn't see the crease. Also, not a big deal, I paid for $4.00 shipping and the shipping was less than $2.00.
Even though I only paid $15.00 total I don't feel satisfied with this purchase and the card is clearly not Mint. There is NO WAY the seller did not see the crease. What should I do about it?
another response:
I had already contacted the seller on Saturday and awaiting his response.
Brian >>
Hi Brian
I totally agree that there was a mistake here - the card is not mint and based on the price of the item and the quality of the seller - it was a mistake rather than a lie IMO - that we'll have to see.
My criticism? Perhaps this could have been worded differently:
1. You asked "what should I do?" When you already did something.
2. Why not have asked: "was this cheap of me to want a refund on a $15 item?"
We won't find anywhere in the dictionary where "principle" is defined by a dollar criterion.
I doubt if I would bend over to pick up a penny in the street but a sawbuck?
Everyone has a different threshold to how much they would go thru to make a point in principle.
I think you're a good guy and don't deserve anyone's insults - whether direct or indirect - over asking for help.
I just think if worded differently - and left the shipping and handling out of the disccussion - this would not have resulted in the minor fray that's now ensuing.
To be frank, it's disappointing - how over the years - these kinds of threads draw way more space and comment than threads involving the collectibles, as such.
Good luck - and I'm willing to put up a $20 bill that the guy does the right thing and offers the refund - the seller definitely is in error.
mike
Steve