I would pass based on the limited info you have provided. A coin worth roughly 10k and being offered for 30k in this market at this time does not sound wise. Not all coin purchases need to pass the "smart and wise" test but since you have already wavered on it tells me 1 or 2 things. While it is actually a cool and rare coin it is not 100 percent needed for your collection. I doubt that it will stay off the market another 40 years and today it is not priced at a realistic number for a smart coin collector. A bad example is the new lincoln cent rolls from the mint. 4.95 per roll for a wrapper trading on ebay for 100 bucks or more. For a wrapper?? What will they bring next year for the wrapper??
Find another cool coin to satisfy the urge at a realistic price.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
No, I am sure it is an interesting coin, but I need money for other things in life. If I have to pay an arm and leg and even more means I really can't afford it.
Once a person is able to acquire the basics - food, shelter, clothing, transportation, love/sex, health care, 2009 Lincoln Birthplace Rolls , what else is there to do with all the excess billions? Do it, buy the coin.
Buy whatever tickles your fancy. As they say - eat , drink, and be merry - for tomorrow we die.
For my Liberty nickel pattern set, a couple years back, an R-8 coin did come up for auction, which had last sold in the 1970's. At the time, coins of this type were trading around $20,000 - $25,000. In fact, I became high bidder in the room right at that level. However, another collector had been looking for the same coin for the past 2 or 3 decades and (I found out later) was intent on winning it at any cost. I personally calculated that this "chance of a lifetime" was worth me paying roughly 2x what I normally would want to pay for the coin and I bid the coin up to around $45,000. When I got outbid at $46,000, I dropped out. So, for me the "number" was 2x.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>What would you do if a coin only crosses the auction block every 40 years or so but it's gonna cost an arm and a leg [and perhaps an eye as well] to obtain it? It's not core to your collection, but it's a perfect add on.
Assume that similar pieces go for $10,000 and you expect this one to go for $30,000. Would you go for it and probably throw $20k into the wind? [Note: numbers not real so responses saying I can afford to blow $20k not valid]. >>
<< <i>If its a coin that I could reasonably afford, it comes up VERY rarely, and has some position towards my collecting goals, then I don't see why I wouldn't attept to go for it! >>
What Stone said. If I liked the coin, I would own it.
I would have to look at the investment potential in this case. Since we are likely talking big money.
Is it a classic rarity or just some obsure rarity that no one cares about? If it is a classic rarity, say an 1913 Liberty Nickle, then I say go for it. If, on the other hand, you are talking about something esoteric, I would likely pass.
Did you want to obtain the coin before it came up for auction? (That is always something I ask myself, and try to avoid things that I wasn't already set on obtaining.) If you were looking to obtain it...I would, forty years is a long time.
<< <i>What would you do if a coin only crosses the auction block every 40 years or so but it's gonna cost an arm and a leg [and perhaps an eye as well] to obtain it? It's not core to your collection, but it's a perfect add on.
Assume that similar pieces go for $10,000 and you expect this one to go for $30,000. Would you go for it and probably throw $20k into the wind? [Note: numbers not real so responses saying I can afford to blow $20k not valid]. >>
no problems here, follow rule #1:
if you like it, if you really REALLY like it, then price does not matter
<< <i>What would you do if a coin only crosses the auction block every 40 years or so but it's gonna cost an arm and a leg [and perhaps an eye as well] to obtain it? It's not core to your collection, but it's a perfect add on.
Assume that similar pieces go for $10,000 and you expect this one to go for $30,000. Would you go for it and probably throw $20k into the wind? [Note: numbers not real so responses saying I can afford to blow $20k not valid]. >>
no problems here, follow rule #1:
if you like it, if you really REALLY like it, then price does not matter
it has always worked for me.
K S >>
There are ALWAYS opportunity costs and other considerations to any acquisition.
From the way you've described it I would say no, I would not pony up for it.
I had the chance, very much along these lines, in 2007, to purchase a piece of space memorabilia. My Father died in May 2007 and I inherited a nice chunk of change from him. In October 2007 a historically significant and UNIQUE item came up for sale. It was the COMPLETE LOG of the Lunar Module (LM) of Apollo 11, e.g. the FIRST MOON LANDING. Needless to say, this item is about as historically significant, not just to America, but to humanity in general, as you can get. Courtesy of my Father's estate I had the cash, if I wanted to blow pretty much all of it, to buy the LM Log. Ultimately I decided not to purchase the LM Log, but purchased a page of the Apollo 11 Command Module (CM) Log, that was up for auction at the same sale. The page had much more handwritten notes on it, so it had the "human touch", it dealt with hours 82-4 of the mission where the astronauts are circling the Moon and preparing to land, and it ended up only costing about 1/8 - 1/10 of the LM Log.
1795 Bass Dannreuther-1,Taraszka-1, Breen 1-A. Rarity-3+. Net F-12; sharpness of VF-35, holed with suspension loop. Medium yellow gold with typical jewelry surfaces, loop added perpendicular to surfaces at 12:00. Good detail remains. The importance of this coin is not in its quality, or even the rarity of the 1795 Small Eagle $10 in general. Instead, this was the coin that launched a lifetime love of all things numismatic by Emery May Norweb, perhaps the greatest female numismatist America has yet produced and one of the great collectors (of either gender) of all time. Little Emery May was but 13 or 14 when she received this coin as a gift from her grandfather Liberty Holden, a fascinating character with interests in mining and newspapers, among other things. Liberty was the progenitor of the entire Norweb Collection and, appropriately, his special focus was coins and medals of George Washington. The somewhat tattered Norweb envelope that accompanies this coin has an old pencil notation on the inside of the back flap, slightly smeared but legible, that tells the story of this piece: "Given E.M.N. by her grandfather, 1908, the gold piece that started the collection."
The Norweb biographical work by Michael Hodder and Q. David Bowers mentions this exact coin, though the facts were somewhat confused when the book was written in 1987. This coin only recently came to light with the Norweb Washingtonia and may not have been seen by them. On page 48 of that book, the authors wrote:
"The only coin that is certainly known to have belonged to Liberty is a 1799 (sic) $10 gold piece, holed for use as a watch fob, which Mrs. Norweb recorded as having received from her grandfather (Liberty). ... Whether she meant that this piece was the first coin Liberty bought; or the first coin she owned is not known. But at least we know that Liberty thought enough of it to keep it, and then pass it on to his granddaughter."
Mrs. Norweb received this piece a year before the taking of a now famous portrait photograph showing young Emery May seated, with long dark curls and a large white bow in her hair. Soon after, the passion was ignited enough that the teenaged Emery May would be found making pencil rubbings of rare colonials and attributing them using her Crosby book. Those pencil rubbings, dated 1908, are depicted on pp. 162-168 of the Norweb book.
While any example of the first $10 coin of the United States is of some value, the primary interest in this coin is bound to be its connection to this famous collector. We hope the next owner will cherish it as she did.
From the Norweb Collection. Given to Emery May Norweb in 1908 by her grandfather, Liberty Holden.
Didn't read any other posts in this thread yet- though I look forward to it.
I'm in a similar situation and hope nobody else wants the same coin in the pre-Long Beach sale. It's not essential, or even the finest, just the specimen I really desire. I feel like I will, after all, pay the premium as I haven't bought a coin at all; in nearly two years.
-D
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
The auction is over but the story is ongoing, so I can't post a complete resolution. What I can say is the coin in question was the 1876 copper trade dollar in the Heritage sale. The hammer price was $110k and I figured I'd have to go to around $150-200k to have a chance at purchasing the coin away from a very strong bidder.
Considering that the 1875 copper pattern in the same sale sold for under $50k, you can see my problem. Was it worth $150k date premium to acquire the 1876? In the end, no since I'm not prepared to pay what it would take to purchase a complete trade dollar pattern set in competition with someone who has deeper pockets than I do!
If you already have one of those copper trade dollar patterns why do you need another? Which one do you already have? If they are of the same exact design then why buy the 2nd one? I always thought patterns were for dressing up your set, not having to complete an entire set in itself.
It depends on the details. For example, if I expected the coin to bring way too much because the leading collector has little respect for money, and if I thought that he was likely to sell the coins in my lifetime, then I'd let him buy the coin.
On the other hand, if I thought that buying the coin was a once-in-a-lifetime chance, I'd bid aggressively.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
It is clear to me that you have made the correct choice. Lacking the full information regarding the coin and the deep pocket collector who would be a competitor and also understanding your love of Trade Dollars, there are many more dimensions than were apparent before. What it comes down to is the bar is raised for these patterns and unless you want to commit the dollars to a full world class collection of pattern trade dollars, it makes no sense to buy this coin. And with a deep pocket competitor that level is probably too high now. Marginal cost versus marginal gain.
We all know about your spectacular trade dollar set. And thanks for sharing it with those of us who do not have your resources, yet love coins as much as you do. It is a shame that many world class sets are out of the view of the average collector.
Good luck in future acquisitions and as always thanks for sharing with collector community!
Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
Comments
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<< <i>I would invest while the stocks are still reasonable. With your profits in about a couple years, maybe you'll be able to find it then. >>
Been there, done that - that's why I was seriously considering challenging Mr Big!
Find another cool coin to satisfy the urge at a realistic price.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
FrederickCoinClub
I'd hit that.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
what else is there to do with all the excess billions? Do it, buy the coin.
Buy whatever tickles your fancy. As they say - eat , drink, and be merry - for tomorrow we die.
sure can't take it with you
Wondercoin
<< <i>What would you do if a coin only crosses the auction block every 40 years or so but it's gonna cost an arm and a leg [and perhaps an eye as well] to obtain it? It's not core to your collection, but it's a perfect add on.
Assume that similar pieces go for $10,000 and you expect this one to go for $30,000. Would you go for it and probably throw $20k into the wind? [Note: numbers not real so responses saying I can afford to blow $20k not valid]. >>
Of course I would do it.
<< <i>If its a coin that I could reasonably afford, it comes up VERY rarely, and has some position towards my collecting goals, then I don't see why I wouldn't attept to go for it! >>
What Stone said. If I liked the coin, I would own it.
Is it a classic rarity or just some obsure rarity that no one cares about? If it is a classic rarity, say an 1913 Liberty Nickle, then I say go for it. If, on the other hand, you are talking about something esoteric, I would likely pass.
Did you want to obtain the coin before it came up for auction? (That is always something I ask myself, and try to avoid things that I wasn't already set on obtaining.) If you were looking to obtain it...I would, forty years is a long time.
I am very curious as to what the item is.
<< <i>What would you do if a coin only crosses the auction block every 40 years or so but it's gonna cost an arm and a leg [and perhaps an eye as well] to obtain it? It's not core to your collection, but it's a perfect add on.
Assume that similar pieces go for $10,000 and you expect this one to go for $30,000. Would you go for it and probably throw $20k into the wind? [Note: numbers not real so responses saying I can afford to blow $20k not valid]. >>
no problems here, follow rule #1:
if you like it, if you really REALLY like it, then price does not matter
it has always worked for me.
K S
<< <i>
<< <i>What would you do if a coin only crosses the auction block every 40 years or so but it's gonna cost an arm and a leg [and perhaps an eye as well] to obtain it? It's not core to your collection, but it's a perfect add on.
Assume that similar pieces go for $10,000 and you expect this one to go for $30,000. Would you go for it and probably throw $20k into the wind? [Note: numbers not real so responses saying I can afford to blow $20k not valid]. >>
no problems here, follow rule #1:
if you like it, if you really REALLY like it, then price does not matter
it has always worked for me.
K S >>
There are ALWAYS opportunity costs and other considerations to any acquisition.
<< <i>There are ALWAYS opportunity costs and other considerations to any acquisition. >>
YOU get to choose whether to ignore them though
K S
I had the chance, very much along these lines, in 2007, to purchase a piece of space memorabilia. My Father died in May 2007 and I inherited a nice chunk of change from him. In October 2007 a historically significant and UNIQUE item came up for sale. It was the COMPLETE LOG of the Lunar Module (LM) of Apollo 11, e.g. the FIRST MOON LANDING. Needless to say, this item is about as historically significant, not just to America, but to humanity in general, as you can get. Courtesy of my Father's estate I had the cash, if I wanted to blow pretty much all of it, to buy the LM Log. Ultimately I decided not to purchase the LM Log, but purchased a page of the Apollo 11 Command Module (CM) Log, that was up for auction at the same sale. The page had much more handwritten notes on it, so it had the "human touch", it dealt with hours 82-4 of the mission where the astronauts are circling the Moon and preparing to land, and it ended up only costing about 1/8 - 1/10 of the LM Log.
U.S. Type Set
Didn't you and I already answer your question with respect to the one and only coin that was given to Mrs. Norweb by Liberty Holden, her grandfather?
Except that it was over 80 years not 40 years.
Prior thread on a Priceless piece of Numismatic History
1795 Bass Dannreuther-1,Taraszka-1, Breen 1-A. Rarity-3+. Net F-12;
sharpness of VF-35, holed with suspension loop. Medium yellow gold with typical jewelry surfaces, loop added perpendicular to surfaces at 12:00. Good detail remains. The importance of this coin is not in its quality, or even the rarity of the 1795 Small Eagle $10 in general. Instead, this was the coin that launched a lifetime love of all things numismatic by Emery May Norweb, perhaps the greatest female numismatist America has yet produced and one of the great collectors (of either gender) of all time. Little Emery May was but 13 or 14 when she received this coin as a gift from her grandfather Liberty Holden, a fascinating character with interests in mining and newspapers, among other things. Liberty was the progenitor of the entire Norweb Collection and, appropriately, his special focus was coins and medals of George Washington. The somewhat tattered Norweb envelope that accompanies this coin has an old pencil notation on the inside of the back flap, slightly smeared but legible, that tells the story of this piece: "Given E.M.N. by her grandfather, 1908, the gold piece that started the collection."
The Norweb biographical work by Michael Hodder and Q. David Bowers mentions this exact coin, though the facts were somewhat confused when the book was written in 1987. This coin only recently came to light with the Norweb Washingtonia and may not have been seen by them. On page 48 of that book, the authors wrote:
"The only coin that is certainly known to have belonged to Liberty is a 1799 (sic) $10 gold piece, holed for use as a watch fob, which Mrs. Norweb recorded as having received from her grandfather (Liberty). ... Whether she meant that this piece was the first coin Liberty bought; or the first coin she owned is not known. But at least we know that Liberty thought enough of it to keep it, and then pass it on to his granddaughter."
Mrs. Norweb received this piece a year before the taking of a now famous portrait photograph showing young Emery May seated, with long dark curls and a large white bow in her hair. Soon after, the passion was ignited enough that the teenaged Emery May would be found making pencil rubbings of rare colonials and attributing them using her Crosby book. Those pencil rubbings, dated 1908, are depicted on pp. 162-168 of the Norweb book.
While any example of the first $10 coin of the United States is of some value, the primary interest in this coin is bound to be its connection to this famous collector. We hope the next owner will cherish it as she did.
From the Norweb Collection. Given to Emery May Norweb in 1908 by her grandfather, Liberty Holden.
I'm in a similar situation and hope nobody else wants the same coin in the pre-Long Beach sale. It's not essential, or even the finest, just the specimen I really desire. I feel like I will, after all, pay the premium as I haven't bought a coin at all; in nearly two years.
-D
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
Considering that the 1875 copper pattern in the same sale sold for under $50k, you can see my problem. Was it worth $150k date premium to acquire the 1876? In the end, no since I'm not prepared to pay what it would take to purchase a complete trade dollar pattern set in competition with someone who has deeper pockets than I do!
If you already have one of those copper trade dollar patterns why do you need another? Which one do you already have?
If they are of the same exact design then why buy the 2nd one?
I always thought patterns were for dressing up your set, not having to complete an entire set in itself.
<< <i>I always thought patterns were for dressing up your set, not having to complete an entire set in itself. >>
I like this as a way to collect patterns to augment a collection.
On the other hand, if I thought that buying the coin was a once-in-a-lifetime chance, I'd bid aggressively.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
We all know about your spectacular trade dollar set. And thanks for sharing it with those of us who do not have your resources, yet love coins as much as you do. It is a shame that many world class sets are out of the view of the average collector.
Good luck in future acquisitions and as always thanks for sharing with collector community!
> in competition with someone who has deeper pockets than I do!
Ahhhhhhhh, the old deeper pockets dilemma. I think we can all relate to that!