Can a few deep pocket collectors control the pricing?

pennyannie · May 22, 2009 7:54AM

Do you think a small group of dealers or collectors can control the pricing on some coin series? I do not follow a lot of different series but i found this forum a couple of years back when i was trying to put together a set of matte proof lincolns. At that time (oct. 2007) prices for mate proofs in the 63/64 red brown and brown were not all that bad to me. Within months it seemed the prices went up hourly. There are some big time MPL collectors and dealers on this forum and lots of info was being posted weekly. I am not a collector of the top tier premimum MPL's but rather a lower end collector trying to put the most eye appealing set together than is controled more by price and not grade. In the MPL series you can have 2 coins with the same grade and one will sell for 1k and the other 5k because of eye appeal. To me the run up was fast, although some would say they were undervalued for years and should have moved up anyway, plus the 100 year ann of Lincoln was fast approaching. So can a small group of dealers and collectors cause havoc in a coin series or is it just in my little mind. If they can control it will the prices maintain the large run up?

A ell know dealer or 2 semi stated a few weeks back that Jack Lee was the market in hi end lincolns while he was putting his wheat and memorial set together.

What do you think? And if they can is it good or bad for the hobby? I only use MPL's as my example because i have intrest in them and have been watching them for the last few years.

If 5 collectors decide to buy 5 million dollars worth of capped bust halves in a 6 month period ( 1 million each) will it make a difference or just a drop in the bucket.

Barndog · May 22, 2009 7:57AM

<< <i>Can a few deep pocket collectors control the pricing? >>

control? Not really. Significantly influence? Heck, yes. Collectors don't even need to have deep pockets to have a significant influence. A few people (even just two) looking for the same thing, such as a gem 1837 bust half dime, an 1809 dime in a PCGS holder, or an AU-58 1813 bust half dollar can help to bring about appreciable price increases.

LindeDad · May 22, 2009 8:07AM

I seem to remember a dealer saying she would buy any AU58 Capped Bust Half awhile back. There for awhile the prices went way up or so it seemed to me.

Unknown · May 22, 2009 8:09AM

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lasvegasteddy · May 22, 2009 8:29AM

surely it's not difficult to do if one studies....pockets don't even have to be that deep

example given...let's say 1965 sms dcam nickels...28 in designation

the 8 above ms66dcam would sit ya back $40k (8 x $5k) but the lower end ones are $1k average (20 x $1k )

so with $60k you're in the drivers seat...shoot one could even have a buddy bid the path to the moon with only paying fees on upgrading prices realized

as far as matty's...there's just too many of um... lower pop coins are vulnerable to a play

1964 sms coinage only needs like 30 coins to corner in each denomination and could be manipulated

good or bad...whose to say

291fifth · May 22, 2009 8:48AM

I once heard that a well known west coast dealer was trying to influence the high end mint state Shield Nickel market. His attempt was apparently unsuccessful. Nobody cared.

droopyd · May 22, 2009 8:50AM

<< <i>I once heard that a well known west coast dealer was trying to influence the high end mint state Shield Nickel market. His attempt was apparently unsuccessful. Nobody cared. >>

Broadstruck · May 22, 2009 9:03AM

I was buying every solidly graded certain key date I could find for well over 2-3 years and was up to a dozen examples at one point. I'd toss an example in a major auction from time to time. It was selling on EBay for 1/3 to 1/2 that it was hammering at a real venue. It was an interesting experiment as now the PCGS values are doubled plus across the board in certain grades due to the auction realized prices. It also demonstrated that there's a different class of collector that apparently doesn't flea-bay.

Getting back to your question... I do believe sometimes it only takes as little as 2 serious collectors to flutiate pricing on a series. It can also level out if one of them exits and peruses something else.

eCoinquest · May 22, 2009 9:06AM

In my opinion, definitely, 100%, absolutely, YES.
Using Sac Dollars as an example, there are and have been several instances when fellow board members and other dealers have "propped up" the price on certain date/grade combos by slowly selling their holdings. That then held up the demand or at least slowed any rapid decline in price do to a population jump.

coinkat · May 22, 2009 10:15AM

promotions... more promotions and there are those that promote the promotions

Bear · May 22, 2009 10:40AM

I have deep pockets...but they

all have big holes in them.

diamondman · May 22, 2009 10:45AM

just ask the Hunt brothers about silver manipulation?

Can a few deep pocket collectors control the pricing?

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